Trust?

[applepansy]

It's a question of whether the level of trials in one's marriage is an accurate reflection of God's trust in us.

I'm the one who brought up the area seventy saying for parents of perfect children to not pat themselves on the back because God didn't trust them enough to send the hard ones.

This is about the same thing.

My answer is yes and no. What's important here is that nobody else gets to decide how much God trusts us based on their outside view of our trials. Its between us and our Heavenly Father.

Almost everyone who has lived more than a decade or two knows that we start with small trials which prepare us for larger ones later in life.

Does Heavenly Father trust us? Yes he does. He knows us better than anyone else. I don't believe Heavenly trust is the same as Earthly trust.

[beefche]

You know, it could mean that, to some extent. When we look at some of the people in the scriptures, so many of them are riddled with trials. It is through those trials that they are proven and provide such great teaching to us.

We are told that the Lord has a refiner's fire--I think that trials in our life are ways to prove us worthy. They help us grow and experience life and lessons that sometimes can be gained best through them.

I don't think that a lack of trials implies that we aren't worthy. But, a wise person once told me that when we look at trials, we cannot compare our trials to another's. So, while I have never suffered through abuse or grave illness, that doesn't mean my trials are any less or greater than those have suffered those types of trials.

[Wingnut]

I'm the one who brought up the area seventy saying for parents of perfect children to not pat themselves on the back because God didn't trust them enough to send the hard ones.

Okay, when I heard this sister make this statement, it rang familiar but I couldn't remember the exact conversation I'd heard/read previously -- this was it, though.

[applepansy]

Okay, when I heard this sister make this statement, it rang familiar but I couldn't remember the exact conversation I'd heard/read previously -- this was it, though.

Since there are no perfect parents or perfect children doesn't it apply to everyone?

Since we all have adversity doesn't it mean Heavenly Father trusts us all?

[Wingnut]

You know, it could mean that, to some extent. When we look at some of the people in the scriptures, so many of them are riddled with trials. It is through those trials that they are proven and provide such great teaching to us.

We are told that the Lord has a refiner's fire--I think that trials in our life are ways to prove us worthy. They help us grow and experience life and lessons that sometimes can be gained best through them.

This is one way to look at it. I hadn't thought of it in this context yet.

I don't think that a lack of trials implies that we aren't worthy.

It was this implication that gave me pause.

[applepansy]

As I'm sitting here thinking about this thread the scripture "judge not lest ye be judged" came to mind.

We are not in a position to judge whether our trials are more or less than another's.

[Praetorian_Brow]

I find it hard to believe that my significant other said I look fat in those jeans, only because Satan told her say it.

I don't subscribe to the theory that God or Satan orchestrates and arranges specific events to test our mettle. To me, that smacks of a selfish need to believe that the world is solely designed for the person that speaks of such a theory. Its as if that theory is trying to absolve some of our actions or lesson our responsibility.

I accept that life is mostly circumstantial and the so called "trials" are random events, or choices within and beyond my control.

[beefche]

"Every marriage has problems. Every marriage has some kind of trial or problem to be worked out. And if yours doesn't, maybe the Lord doesn't trust you enough to give them to you."

Discuss.

The more I think about this, the more I disagree. Dravin and I have had a blissfully happy 15 months of marriage. We have yet to truly argue.

I am not naive enough to think that we won't have things in our marriage that will try us. In fact, we are dealing with a situation in our life that many, if not most, would say is a great trial. For us, it isn't. We are choosing to accept it and be happy and trust the Lord that it is His wisdom for this situation.

But, why is it that the Lord doesn't trust us? I have made choices in my life, righteous choices, that helps me to be happy in my marriage. Dravin made choices that helps him to be happy in his marriage. We have avoided so much heartache because we have followed the commandments. We know that the Plan of Salvation is called the Plan of Happiness. If you follow it, you will be happy. Dravin and I choose to be happy with ourselves and each other.

Doesn't guarantee that there won't be trials in your life. I agree that God and Satan aren't necessarily playing chess with us--most of trials are part of living in a natural, fallen world. But, when we choose to follow God, He blesses us. Sometimes those blessings are natural consequences of good choices. But, I choose to think of them as blessings of God.

I refuse to play the "oh look at me and my perfect life--ya'll are sinners!" game or the "oh look at me and my perfect life--I am not worthy!" game. To suggest that I and others who have happy marriages or lives are somehow "less" than others is insulting and frankly, false doctrine. And to suggest that someone who has great trials (as judged by us) is somehow less than others is also insulting and false doctrine. IMNHO.

[applepansy]

As I drove the kids to preschool this morning I had another thought about this thread. So here is my real life analogy. What brought this to my mind is two things. My grandson has started saying "You don't trust me" when he's angry with me. And I am driving two little boys to preschool who fight with each other. I have observed their behavior for 3 years apart and together. Other people in our ward, preschool, life have observed the boys together and apart and shared their observations.

I'm 54. I've raised 4- 4yos of my own. I'm raising another one. I've tended a lot of 4yos in my life.

Do I trust these boys? YES! I trust them to do what is right when they are not with each other. I also trust them to fight when left unattended. I trust that because of their personalities and the proclivities of one to dominate there will be a fight.

I think its the same with Heavenly Father. He trusts us to be US.

Another scripture that came to mind is the one that says will we not be tested or tempted more than we are able to withstand. To me this is comforting because I know Heavenly Father trusts me. He knows me well enough to know when I'll mess up and when I won't. Isn't that trust?

[applepansy]

I find it hard to believe that my significant other said I look fat in those jeans, only because Satan told her say it.

I don't subscribe to the theory that God or Satan orchestrates and arranges specific events to test our mettle. To me, that smacks of a selfish need to believe that the world is solely designed for the person that speaks of such a theory. Its as if that theory is trying to absolve some of our actions or lesson our responsibility.

I accept that life is mostly circumstantial and the so called "trials" are random events, or choices within and beyond my control.

Its doctrine that we are here to be tested. Where does the test come from? We also have our agency. Where does that fit in?

I agree with the bolded. I believe Heavenly Father uses even our mistakes to bless the lives of others. Orchestrate? No.

[Maureen]

"Every marriage has problems. Every marriage has some kind of trial or problem to be worked out. And if yours doesn't, maybe the Lord doesn't trust you enough to give them to you."

Discuss.

I personally don't believe that God gives us problems, I think we as human beings do that just fine without God's input. I believe that God provides us ways to solve those problems, whether they are to do with marriage or anything for that matter.

M.

[applepansy]

From Greg Olson's FB

[Misshalfway]

I find it hard to believe that my significant other said I look fat in those jeans, only because Satan told her say it.

I don't subscribe to the theory that God or Satan orchestrates and arranges specific events to test our mettle. To me, that smacks of a selfish need to believe that the world is solely designed for the person that speaks of such a theory. Its as if that theory is trying to absolve some of our actions or lesson our responsibility.

I accept that life is mostly circumstantial and the so called "trials" are random events, or choices within and beyond my control.

Tell that to Abraham and Isaac.

[Vort]

The more I think about this, the more I disagree. Dravin and I have had a blissfully happy 15 months of marriage. We have yet to truly argue.

I am not naive enough to think that we won't have things in our marriage that will try us. In fact, we are dealing with a situation in our life that many, if not most, would say is a great trial. For us, it isn't. We are choosing to accept it and be happy and trust the Lord that it is His wisdom for this situation.

But, why is it that the Lord doesn't trust us? I have made choices in my life, righteous choices, that helps me to be happy in my marriage. Dravin made choices that helps him to be happy in his marriage. We have avoided so much heartache because we have followed the commandments. We know that the Plan of Salvation is called the Plan of Happiness. If you follow it, you will be happy. Dravin and I choose to be happy with ourselves and each other.

Doesn't guarantee that there won't be trials in your life. I agree that God and Satan aren't necessarily playing chess with us--most of trials are part of living in a natural, fallen world. But, when we choose to follow God, He blesses us. Sometimes those blessings are natural consequences of good choices. But, I choose to think of them as blessings of God.

I refuse to play the "oh look at me and my perfect life--ya'll are sinners!" game or the "oh look at me and my perfect life--I am not worthy!" game. To suggest that I and others who have happy marriages or lives are somehow "less" than others is insulting and frankly, false doctrine. And to suggest that someone who has great trials (as judged by us) is somehow less than others is also insulting and false doctrine. IMNHO.

If you started getting angry at him over small, inconsequential things and bringing up disagreements from before you got married, you would find that God trusts you more.

This is meant to be silly, not critical. So don't get your panties in a wad.

[applepansy]

This morning I'm suddenly stumbling over things that apply to this thread.

"Strong moral character results from consistent correct choices in the trials and testing of life."

—Richard G. Scott

[carlimac]

Carlimac does he go around singing it or when he's looking in a mirror? :)

Mostly when he's feeling pretty good about himself or when his kids tease him about losing his hair and getting old. Then he sings it to prop himself up again.

[Misshalfway]

Let's lay this out.

We all got kicked out of the nest. God trusted all of us to be away from him. And we are all getting tested every minute of every day. HOW we get tested.....well, God uses everything doesn't he? He uses trials and he uses prosperity. He uses the circumstantial and He intervenes.

"God must trust you more if you have a hard trial" is something we say to help make sense of suffering. And we compare being "trusted" by God with what we think we see Him doing (or not doing) with others because we don't know completely that we are special. Being away from Father and blocked by the veil, I think, brings an immediate feeling of distance, doubt, and abandonment. Our testimonies and our faith helps bridge the gap but it doesn't mean that we don't look around and see ourselves in a sea of milllions and wonder how and if God is individually invested in us.

[Praetorian_Brow]

The circumstances of Abraham and Isaac are debatable. If you want to wear a horse hair shirt, then by all means.

[Misshalfway]

The circumstances of Abraham and Isaac are debatable. If you want to wear a horse hair shirt, then by all means.

Well...maybe God knows I need a little one on one. Perhaps He trusts you to do earth life on your own.

[NightSG]

“I know God won't give me anything I can't handle. I just wish he didn't trust me so much.”

― Mother Teresa

[Maureen]

Last Saturday we had a stake women's conference. We had three workshops, one of which was about celestial marriage. The woman who taught it has been married for 40+ years, had something like nine children, and her husband is a two-time bishop and former member of the stake presidency. I didn't have a problem with anything else that she said in her lesson, but this line (my OP) gave me pause. I was curious to see what other people thought about it.

I'm going to speculate that this woman, with 9 children, and a husband who was probably not at home that much due to his calllings, lead a very stressful life. She possibly found a good way to cope with her stressful life by thinking that God gave her these trials because he trusted her.

M.

[Finrock]

Good afternoon Wingnut! I hope you are enjoying your day. :)

It's a question of whether the level of trials in one's marriage is an accurate reflection of God's trust in us.

I think that if the doctrine expressed in 1 Cor. 10:13 is true, then the idea expressed in your quote must be true as well.

"13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it"

In D&C 121 Joseph Smith prays to Father while in prison asking Him why he has not rescued His people from their trials and their tribulations? Joseph wonders how long God will allow Joseph and the Saints to be persecuted. In verse 7 God responds by reminding Joseph Smith the proper attitude he should have during trials and that if Joseph endures his trials well, then it is specifically from suffering through the trials that he is promised to be exalted.

"7 My son, peace be unto thy soul; thine adversity and thine afflictions shall be but a small moment;

8 And then, if thou endure it well, God shall exalt thee on high; thou shalt triumph over all thy foes."

Note that God did not tell Joseph that his trials would be taken away. God wants Joseph to suffer through them. The challenge, then, is for us to be able to "endure well" through our afflictions. It is largely through our afflictions that we are able to gain the experiences necessary for progression towards eternal life. God reinforces this teaching of enduring trials well, rather than being removed from them, in Section 122 of D&C.

After describing every type of affliction possible that might beset Joseph, or us, God promises:

"...know thou, my son [or daughter], that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good" (D&C 122:7).

Unlike most of Christendom, we know that the Fall was a necessary part of Heavenly Father's plan. Adam and Eve had to transgress God's law in order for the plan of salvation to come to fruition. God wants us to suffer through trials because He knows, just as Adam and Eve knew:

"10 ...saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.

11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient" (Moses 5:11).

Amongst the several neccessary opportunities that the Fall gave us to become like Heavenly Father, the opportunity and blessing to experience adversity is absolutely necessary in our destiny to become like Heavenly Father.

All of this together paints a picture. God knows we must suffer through adversity. He wants us to suffer through adversity because he knows it is better for us to suffer through trials so that we can learn between good and evil. The adversity we face in life are actually opportunities for us to grow and to become more like Heavenly Father. This establishes that adversity are really just blessings and we truly should be grateful for the adversity we face and we ought to ask for blessings from God.

Further, this establishes that God does not allow us to suffer adversity beyond the capacity that we are able to bear. Although He wants us to suffer through adversity, it is only to the extent that it is for our good. And, thus it makes sense then that God will not give us adversity when we aren't ready or able to bear it.

In the end, our adversity is a blessing. It is a necessary component of life. We must be able to learn to endure adversity well. The Son of Man hath descended below all adversity. Are we greater than he? (D&C 122:8)

Finally, consider Elder Christofferson's talk, which I quote a part of below:

"I would like to speak of one particular attitude and practice we need to adopt if we are to meet our Heavenly Father’s high expectations. It is this: willingly to accept and even seek correction. Correction is vital if we would conform our lives “unto a perfect man, [that is,] unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ” (Ephesians 4:13). Paul said of divine correction or chastening, “For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth” (Hebrews 12:6). Though it is often difficult to endure, truly we ought to rejoice that God considers us worth the time and trouble to correct" ("As Many as I Love, I Rebuke and Chasten").

Regards,

Finrock

[Misshalfway]

You know what? I love how you start all your posts, Finrock. You are always so warm.

Thanks for doing that! It makes a difference. Feeling a little of your sunshiney warmth has made a difference to me and I wanted you to know.

[Finrock]

Hi Misshalfway!

You know what? I love how you start all your posts, Finrock. You are always so warm.

Thanks for doing that! It makes a difference. Feeling a little of your sunshiney warmth has made a difference to me and I wanted you to know.

You're welcome. Can't say that I'm generally complimented for being "warm". Thank you for taking the time to express this sentiment.

Regards,

Finrock