Genesis question on the Flood.

[FunkyTown]

So I was reading a rather poorly put together conspiratorial book saying that genetic engineering is an abomination to God and will result in demon-human hybrids. I don't believe it, but it did get me to reread Genesis, which is always a good thing. Specifically, I have questions on these verses:

Genesis 6:12-13 -

And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Now, God in this case is not talking about just humanity when he says 'All Flesh', because of Genesis 6:7:

And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

God is saying that every flesh and creeping thing is corrupt. The author of the conspiratorial book I had read insisted this meant genetic tampering, and that Noah and his family were the last pure humans untouched by Satan's tampering and that Satan had intended to corrupt the bloodline that the Savior was destined to come through, thus frustrating God's plan.

How does a dog, or ant, or butterfly become corrupt? God could have easily sent a disease to wipe out man, but instead chose to wipe out all flesh with a much more apocalyptic consequence. The book in question was called 'Forbidden Gates: The Nephilim Spirit behind Transhumanism'.

The reason that I'm asking that I have an intense interest in transhumanism and artificial intelligence and the book, while being absurd in a lot of ways, did make me think very carefully about certain aspects of it. This, in particular.

The author asserted that, as the Savior was sent to die for Man and Man was made in God's image, those who deliberately alter their human makeup are thus removing themselves from Grace. What do you think?

[mikbone]

Does the book comment on 1 Samuel 15:3

[FunkyTown]

Does the book comment on 1 Samuel 15:3

Possibly? Why do you ask?

[mikbone]

It is unlikely that the Amalekites were practicing genetic engineering.

[FunkyTown]

Okay. I would agree that this is unlikely.

Can you be a bit more helpful about what you're saying? The Lord doesn't say to destroy them because all flesh had become corrupt. Even Sodom and Gomorrah doesn't go so far as to say that. I think what you're saying is that the Lord is telling him to destroy everything that lives there because that's just how he rolls when bad people own things. I would disagree with that and suggest that destroying their wealth was to prevent the Israelites from thinking it was okay to kill and get gain. That, obviously, isn't why God would have sent the flood.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, obviously, but I'm not a mind reader and can only go based on what you're saying. If you're responding with single sentences, I'm unlikely to fully comprehend what you're saying and may even completely misinterpret what you're saying.

Because right now? All I've gotten out of your two sentences is, "That's just how the Lord rolls." and I would assume that must be me misinterpreting what you're saying as I really don't think that makes any sense.

[mikbone]

We don't know why God from time to time decides to destroy all life. I agree with you that the book you are reading is poorly put together.

Does he mention all the mass extinction events that modern scientists believe occurred from studying the geologic record.

[FunkyTown]

We don't know why God from time to time decides to destroy all life. I agree with you that the book you are reading is poorly put together.

Does he mention all the mass extinction events that modern scientists believe occurred from studying the geologic record.

All right. I'm going to just take you at face value rather than try to read inference in.

He does not. After all, the bible only mentions one extinction level event: The flood, and it mentions very specifically why God chose to destroy all life at that time. Since Genesis is very specific about this, the other events aren't really relevant and I'm searching more for understanding of what the 'corruption of all flesh' means. If you don't know or have an opinion on that, I understand, but that's certainly what I'm hoping to gain understanding of through this thread.

[mikbone]

Corruption biblically infers sin.

Genesis 6 and Moses 8 further ties corruption to violence.

It makes sense that the flood occurred to prevent pre-moral spirits to be sent into families of unbelievers and sinners.

I'm not sure that animals can sin. But perhaps the biological profile of species on the Earth at that time was out of control and unhealthy.

I guess the real question is to define the term corruption.

Genetically human DNA is far from perfect.

[rameumptom]

In some early texts, like the Book of Jubilees and the Book of Jasher, it suggests that the people were using potions to create a society of giants. These were people as tall as trees. Others used potions to cause abortions, so the women could keep their young figures.

It may be they didn't have the technology we have today, but may have used herbs and magic to create changes.

Remember that Jacob used magic and plants to create sheep that were striped, in stealing the majority of sheep from his father in law Laban. Rachel used plants to get pregnant.

[Irishcolleen]

I don't think it was that the animals were sinning. Every aspect of nature can be effected by the sins of mankind. I'm not a tree-hugger by any means, but I can see how sin has altered the environment. Perhaps sinful poor stewardship of the earth caused animal life to have genetic problems.

[Anddenex]

In some early texts, like the Book of Jubilees and the Book of Jasher, it suggests that the people were using potions to create a society of giants. These were people as tall as trees. Others used potions to cause abortions, so the women could keep their young figures.

It may be they didn't have the technology we have today, but may have used herbs and magic to create changes.

Remember that Jacob used magic and plants to create sheep that were striped, in stealing the majority of sheep from his father in law Laban. Rachel used plants to get pregnant.

Ram... in your studies, the giants mentioned of, is it more understood that they were possibly genetically altered, or is there possible evidence, from other sources of writing, that they were a different race altogether?

Also, pertaining to the flood and giants. I thought it was interesting that the flood mentioning only Noah and his sons surviving, however later on in the Bible is mentions, after the flood, one of the people being a last descendant of the giants. I will have to look further, as to the scriptures I read.

As pertaining to the OPs question about animals, I have wondered the same thing and have come to no good conclusion.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Anddenex

[Blackmarch]

So I was reading a rather poorly put together conspiratorial book saying that genetic engineering is an abomination to God and will result in demon-human hybrids. I don't believe it, but it did get me to reread Genesis, which is always a good thing. Specifically, I have questions on these verses:

Genesis 6:12-13 -

Now, God in this case is not talking about just humanity when he says 'All Flesh', because of Genesis 6:7:

God is saying that every flesh and creeping thing is corrupt. The author of the conspiratorial book I had read insisted this meant genetic tampering, and that Noah and his family were the last pure humans untouched by Satan's tampering and that Satan had intended to corrupt the bloodline that the Savior was destined to come through, thus frustrating God's plan.

How does a dog, or ant, or butterfly become corrupt? God could have easily sent a disease to wipe out man, but instead chose to wipe out all flesh with a much more apocalyptic consequence. The book in question was called 'Forbidden Gates: The Nephilim Spirit behind Transhumanism'.

The reason that I'm asking that I have an intense interest in transhumanism and artificial intelligence and the book, while being absurd in a lot of ways, did make me think very carefully about certain aspects of it. This, in particular.

The author asserted that, as the Savior was sent to die for Man and Man was made in God's image, those who deliberately alter their human makeup are thus removing themselves from Grace. What do you think?

To be made so that one does not die again will require a definite change, one that'd i would think would be affected on the level of dna at some point. Personally i'd think that the manipulation and creation of life in general by God would fall under some sort of engineering of which the DNA level would be part of.

as for the flood, i suppose the earth itself needed a baptism of water before a baptism of fire.

[Traveler]

As a scientist and engineer working in the field of automation and artificial intelligence in manufacturing - It is always interesting to me the "things" people come up with that is a concern to them. I believe we live in an age of enlightenment and an era of ignorance. A time when so much is known and so little understood. A time of scientific advancement and moral stagnation and decline.

The Book of Enoch has some rather interesting ideas about the era of the flood. Two statements from the Book of Enoch I find rather interesting; they imply the reason for man’s destruction. Reason #1: Children were conceived for carnal purposes. Reason #2: Man changed or order of marriage. What exactly each statement means - I will leave as an exercise in logic for the reader.

What is sometimes missing in understanding concerning the flood is the poetic nature of the scriptures and the metaphors or symbols used. I have wondered if the corruption of flesh came from perverted sexual acts involving various animals. I have also wondered what evil and sins are so perverted that a benevolent, compassionate and loving G-d would kill off everybody and start over. However, a careful reading and study would seem to indicate that the ancient society of Enoch and Noah was being divided and that anyone with righteousness inclinations was drawn to Enoch and a society that is incompatible with most or any society we can observe, study or participate in. As the human population was divided the wicked leaning became quite perverse.

Some understand that the wickedness of today in many ways mimics the wickedness conceived during the era of Noah - the one thing lacking is that the righteous and wicked are still mixed.

The Traveler

[mordorbund]

Jasher 4:18-19

And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice, and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals.

And the Lord said, I will blot out man that I created from the face of the earth, yea from man to the birds of the air, together with cattle and beasts that are in the field for I repent that I made them.

[Just_A_Guy]

All I know is, if this is wrong:

I don't want to be right.

(Story here)

[Seminarysnoozer]

So I was reading a rather poorly put together conspiratorial book saying that genetic engineering is an abomination to God and will result in demon-human hybrids. I don't believe it, but it did get me to reread Genesis, which is always a good thing. Specifically, I have questions on these verses:

Genesis 6:12-13 -

Now, God in this case is not talking about just humanity when he says 'All Flesh', because of Genesis 6:7:

God is saying that every flesh and creeping thing is corrupt. The author of the conspiratorial book I had read insisted this meant genetic tampering, and that Noah and his family were the last pure humans untouched by Satan's tampering and that Satan had intended to corrupt the bloodline that the Savior was destined to come through, thus frustrating God's plan.

How does a dog, or ant, or butterfly become corrupt? God could have easily sent a disease to wipe out man, but instead chose to wipe out all flesh with a much more apocalyptic consequence. The book in question was called 'Forbidden Gates: The Nephilim Spirit behind Transhumanism'.

The reason that I'm asking that I have an intense interest in transhumanism and artificial intelligence and the book, while being absurd in a lot of ways, did make me think very carefully about certain aspects of it. This, in particular.

The author asserted that, as the Savior was sent to die for Man and Man was made in God's image, those who deliberately alter their human makeup are thus removing themselves from Grace. What do you think?

Thanks, I have always wondered about that statement too.

One of the ways that all flesh changed, I presume (and maybe this is too big of a presumption) is that the copy of the flesh, the offspring is not an exact copy of the original. In that sense it is corrupted. Like making an cassette tape recording of a cassette tape of a cassette tape recording ..... etc. One of the interesting things of Genesis that I think is passed over frequently is that Seth was in the express image of Adam and I am presuming that Cain was not.

D&C 107 " 41 This order was instituted in the days of Adam, and came down by lineage in the following manner:

42 From Adam to Seth, who was ordained by Adam at the age of sixty-nine years, and was blessed by him three years previous to his (Adam’s) death, and received the promise of God by his father, that his posterity should be the chosen of the Lord, and that they should be preserved unto the end of the earth;

43 Because he (Seth) was a perfect man, and his likeness was the express likeness of his father, insomuch that he seemed to be like unto his father in all things, and could be distinguished from him only by his age."

This is something that I don't think is discussed much in the church, at least I can't find many references to it, but there is a reason to be genetically linked to Adam and in a certain quantity. As we genetically become further distanced from our ancestors that could be described as a certain corruption of the flesh. In those scriptures, being in the likeness in "all" things even to the point of not being able to tell the difference between them except by age and having that linked to one's priesthood authority I think is significant. It may be that the power of the priesthood is linked to genetic similarities for whatever reason. Maybe this is why Jesus needed to be of a certain lineage, in other words the not just because of custom or tradition but the tradition holds up for a specific physical reason. Now, I realize this all sounds racist, maybe it is but it is a curiosity that I have even brought up a few times in various threads about why "posterity" and "lineage" are so important in our religion.

Could it be that the variability was so far off the original, i.e. - the genes were so far corrupted from the original that it gave the inhabitants of those bodies no chance to be spiritually inclined. And so to serve the purposes of his world, which is to present a contrasting choice between spiritual and carnal choices, they need to be presented without too far of a bias in either direction. If things are carnally superpowered so-to-speak, or corrupted from spiritually inclined genetics (if that really exists - seemingly implied by the above scripture) too far off the scale then they needed to be purified. The process could have also occurred with all animals, making them more carnal or violent, worldly or animalistic. Posterity, meaning genetic links is important to our religion for some reason, this is not easily explained.

I guess the unanswered question is what is it about the "bloodline" that makes it important in the first place. Why are we presuming there is such a thing to preserve? Does it really matter what bloodline Jesus came through and why? It can't be just tradition, that really isn't an answer.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Seminarysnoozer

[Arosophos]

Joseph Smith mentioned that we would eventually perform the ordinance of transfiguration (or "translation") in the latter days. What processes might be associated with that ordinance? Joseph also mentions in the Doctrine and Covenants that the heavens will include animals that are exalted in knowledge and power. What processes might be associated with making that happen?

"Now the doctrine of translation is a power which belongs to this Priesthood. There are many things which belong to the powers of the Priesthood and the keys thereof, that have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world; they are hid from the wise and prudent to be revealed in the last times." (Joseph Smith)

In light of these ideas, and for various other reasons, I consider Mormonism to be a religious Transhumanism.