Working mom

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I was a stay at home mom for a long time. We really struggled, but got by somehow. Them my husband's business died, and after that he got jobs, and got laid off almost three times in three years. We lost our home and filed bankruptcy...and all the while, I struggled with just what you are asking....do I follow the church counsel to be a stay-at-home mom, or do I follow the church counsel to be self-sufficient?

I really thought that if I did my part the Lord would provide a way for me to stay home with my children, and yet, His ways are not our ways. I guess you could say He provided a way for me to be self-sufficient...if you want to frame it that way. I don't know what to think, but after my husband got laid off the third time (and we were already on church assistance), I decided enough was enough. I talked to my Bishop and said, I want to be a stay at home mome but I think it is time for me to get a job. He agreed.

I have been working full-time ever since. It is not my first choice, to be sure, but we do what we must.

All that just to say, I feel your pain, and I agree with Wingnut that you will feel guilty no matter what you do. If anyone can find a way around that, I would love to hear it as well.

Good luck.

[Bini]

My responses were to this quote.

  Jennarator said:

I guess I just need some friendly advice. Freeload and still barely make it, or payfor everything work full time and (because we have to pay for everything) still barely make ends meet but not rely on government.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. I was under the impression that you either (A) take assistance, barely making it but are home with your kids or (B.) refuse assistance, work instead, still barely making it, and being away from your kids. If both outcomes "barely make it", I would choose the lesser of the evils, and at least be with my kids. Note, I still believe you can be product (as much or as little as one desires) from home.. Also, despite the mentality, not everyone that accepts assistance is being a freeloader. BUT if that's genuinely a feeling that you and your husband harbour, then perhaps there's a part of you that knows you're not backed up against a corner..

Just thinking out loud.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Bini
Had to remove that smiley face.. LOL

[Vort]

  Bini said:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. I was under the impression that you either (A) take assistance, barely making it but are home with your kids or (B.) refuse assistance, work instead, still barely making it, and being away from your kids. If both outcomes "barely make it", I would choose the lesser of the evils, and at least be with my kids. Note, I still believe you can be product (as much or as little as one desires) from home.. Also, despite the mentality, not everyone that accepts assistance is being a freeloader. BUT if that's genuinely a feeling that you and your husband harbour, then perhaps there's a part of you that knows you're not backed up against a corner..

Just thinking out loud.

If I understand her correctly, it is a choice between working and barely making it or not working and barely making it. The "lesser of two evils" choice is: Is it better (or less evil) to leave the kids in order to work and support yourself, or to go on the government dole and stay home with your children? Maybe the answer should be obvious, but it is not obvious to me.

[Jennarator]

Yes Bini, barely make it either way......one with assistance, one without.

I didn't mention that my kids (even with both of us working) are on state health insurance. Just went home for lunch and found a letter saying that we just lost that. We make too much for that, but not enough to afford the 600 bucks a month to use work insurance.....this bites. I am now at work in tears.....and I sit at the front desk.

[MorningStar]

  Jennarator said:

Yes Bini, barely make it either way......one with assistance, one without.

I didn't mention that my kids (even with both of us working) are on state health insurance. Just went home for lunch and found a letter saying that we just lost that. We make too much for that, but not enough to afford the 600 bucks a month to use work insurance.....this bites. I am now at work in tears.....and I sit at the front desk.

Our state has different levels - free, $20 a month per child ($40 max) and I think $40 per child ($80 max). It has made a huge difference for us because we have had to make several visits to the ER, which would normally cost us at least $400. We used to pay $800 a month fo our family's insurance and then we had a large cut in pay. Then the kids qualified for state insurance.

So how much do you spend a month on gas because you work? What about the wear and tear on the car? How much do you spend on convenience foods because you guys are too tired to cook?

I would track and add up those expenses, then make my decision. What about watching a couple kids in your home? You might even just be a place for children to go in the mornings before school and after school. My mom used to do that.

[Finrock]

Good afternoon Jennarator. I hope you are having a good day! :)

  Jennarator said:

Most people I know (LDS) don't even consider the idea of the mom working. It doesn't cross their minds when they are hard up. They stay at home and the dad works and whatever he doesn't make the government and the church step in.....

There are other options. If staying at home with your children is something you really want to do, then likely there are options. Clearly there are cases where there are no other options. However, we shouldn't assume too quickly that we are left with only one or two options until we've taken the time to prayerfully, conscientiously, and purposefully evaluate the options available. Important as well is to then make goals and map out a way of accomplishing those goals.

Some Ideas:

* Do an inventory of your expenses and sacrifice anything that you can sacrifice in order to make it possible for you stay at home.

* Perhaps temporarily receiving assistance from the Church is worth it so that you can be at home with the children?

* Can family help?

* If you can't stop working now, have a goal to do this in the future. Write the goal down. Have real plans and milestones to help you reach your goal.

* Specifically ask God to help you to be able to stay at home and to help you to know how you can accomplish this.

* Have a goal to increase the employability and earning potential of your husband.

Regards,

Finrock

[Jennarator]

  MorningStar said:

Our state has different levels - free, $20 a month per child ($40 max) and I think $40 per child ($80 max). It has made a huge difference for us because we have had to make several visits to the ER, which would normally cost us at least $400. We used to pay $800 a month fo our family's insurance and then we had a large cut in pay. Then the kids qualified for state insurance.

So how much do you spend a month on gas because you work? What about the wear and tear on the car? How much do you spend on convenience foods because you guys are too tired to cook?

I would track and add up those expenses, then make my decision. What about watching a couple kids in your home? You might even just be a place for children to go in the mornings before school and after school. My mom used to do that.

I wish our stat did this. I life within walking distance to work so that is not an issue. My mother in law watches the baby and the other kids are latch key kids. I really don't have the patience to watch other people's kids I tried. I just die waiting for a partent to pick them up. I am way to old for that. I know this sounds like excuses, but I have honsetly tried everything. I posted on the thread only after months of writing down options, praying and crying. I am just stuck.

[Irishcolleen]

If you have to work, don't feel guilty. It is better than having your kids go without food or housing. You know what is best for your family.

I am able to stay home, it is difficult. We have a very tiny townhome, drive our car till it can't be fixed, no cable, shop at Goodwill, etc... For us it is working. Others cannot make it on one income no matter how hard they economize. They have no choice but to work. You do what you have to in order to care for your family. I am sure whether you work or not your kids will know you love them and turn out fine.

At times, public assistance is ok. One of my friends has a child with autism. She gave up her job in order to do 1-on-1 therapy with him. He is making huge amounts of progress. They can't live on one income, but the amount of welfare they take now is far less than what it would cost for their son to be institutionalized (that was the only other option, he was so severe).

Do what is best for your family. Basically, no one's opinion is important but yours and you husband's. Things stink economically. It use to be easy for people to live on one income. It is so hard -> impossible now. I wish it were easier. You are in my prayers.

[Backroads]

This is self-serving, I know, but this thread has helped me with a personal decision I've been praying about.

Anywho, I'm of the type that believes "The Lord helps those who help themselves" and therefore lean towards the side that if you need to need work outside the home, hey, that's what you need to do.

And yet, if an at-home job (if available) and some smart budgeting is all it really takes to make ends meet...

[Bini]

Vort, the answer for me would be obvious. IF being employed honestly didn't make diddly squat a difference, than I would opt to stay home with the children because my husband and I would feel that it would be better for at least one of us to be there throughout the day.

Jenn, I honestly don't believe there is a right or wrong answer (especially a blanket one) when it comes to these kinds of situations. I was trying to address the issue of ends not meeting, regardless of working or not working, in which case I'd opt to be home. That was what I was trying to say.

[MorningStar]

  Jennarator said:

I wish our stat did this. I life within walking distance to work so that is not an issue. My mother in law watches the baby and the other kids are latch key kids. I really don't have the patience to watch other people's kids I tried. I just die waiting for a partent to pick them up. I am way to old for that. I know this sounds like excuses, but I have honsetly tried everything. I posted on the thread only after months of writing down options, praying and crying. I am just stuck.

It's frustrating when you're in that situation. More and more people are being put on high deductible plans. With kids, it's easy to meet that deductible at a rate that you can't handle. My husband and I are on a HD plan now and I'm trying my darnedest not to go to the doctor at all this year. Money is being taken out of each paycheck for our HSA and his employer contributes half of it by the time the year ends, so I'm hoping we can carry $3,000 into next year and eventually get the kids on our plan. Oh yes, and there's a $5,000 max out of pocket.

[viannqueen3]

My 2 cents (take it for what it's worth).

I think if you consider the option of staying home then do that but then use time to gain training or education in a career that you can enter down the road so that you won't be constantly struggling forever. Could you possibly have your family member watch the littlest one, go to school in the morning/ early afternoon and be home by time your oldest kids are getting out of school? Just thinking out loud here.

Also remember that church assistance is not designed with longevity in mind. If you ask me honestly I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea of my fast offering donations being used to assist someone who want to stay at home when they have the option to work. I feel differently if they are using that time while on assistance to get training and education so that they can be self sufficient down the road. I TOTALLY get the desire to stay at home. Don't beat yourself up about it if your individual circumstances don't make it possible.

[applepansy]

  Jennarator said:

Okay, so I work full time. Always have. I have five kids ages 12, 11 9, 9 and almost one.

I have always HAD to work full time.

My husband now works full time, however he doesn't make much money. If I quit to stay at home we would rely on the church and the government and still be really hard up to make the bills. The church advices a mom to stay at home if at all possible. (Keep in my my husband pays child support and that takes a bunch of our money, too.)

My question is. What is recommended? Be a freeloader on the government, something I try really hard not to be. Or stay with my children.

I am very torn, but I just really want to spend more time at home. My husband wants a cleaner home, but we work all the time. I guess I just need some friendly advice. Freeload and still barely make it, or payfor everything work full time and (because we have to pay for everything) still barely make ends meet but not rely on government.

I worked. I had to too. Don't beat yourself up about it. If you need to work to make ends meet then that's what you do.

[Irishcolleen]

  viannqueen3 said:

My 2 cents (take it for what it's worth).

I think if you consider the option of staying home then do that but then use time to gain training or education in a career that you can enter down the road so that you won't be constantly struggling forever. Could you possibly have your family member watch the littlest one, go to school in the morning/ early afternoon and be home by time your oldest kids are getting out of school? Just thinking out loud here.

Also remember that church assistance is not designed with longevity in mind. If you ask me honestly I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea of my fast offering donations being used to assist someone who want to stay at home when they have the option to work. I feel differently if they are using that time while on assistance to get training and education so that they can be self sufficient down the road. I TOTALLY get the desire to stay at home. Don't beat yourself up about it if your individual circumstances don't make it possible.

That's an excellent idea! Many colleges have online programs so you can even go to school and stay home.

[classylady]

Women and guilt. We are so good at it. I haven't always had to work, but there would be long periods of time when I did. I felt guilty when working because I wasn't there for the kids, and I felt guilty not working because we could have really used the income.

I know my children suffered because I worked outside of the home. I was too exhausted to help them with school work at the end of the day. I was too tired to discipline them like I should have. My house wasn't as clean as I wanted it. I was too tired to clean after work. For ten years I had a job where I had to work many Sundays. Thankfully, I had a husband who always took the kids to church, but I feel my younger children have struggled spiritually because I wasn't there.

I can go on and on about the guilt I feel. My identity was never with my job or career. It has always been within my home. If my home was a mess, my husband wasn't the one judged for that, but I, the wife/mother was. Whenever I worked, I longed to be at home with my family. Even though I could do my job, my mind was always at home, not on the job. For those of us women who long to be home rather than at the job, we often don't consider the toll this takes on us emotionally. For me, it was a huge burden. I look at my decision to work, and now I wonder after all these years if it was worth it.

Edited February 21, 2013 by classylady

[Vort]

I am so happy that, as a man, I know nothing of guilt or the crushing burden of feeling like one has wasted his potential and stands disapproved before God for his failures.

[Jennarator]

Classylady.....you hit it exactly. I feel like a failure! My kids have never had me at home. I am too pooped after work to be much help to anyone, I just make dinner and go to bed. I hate seeing people on FB that make homemade rolls everyday for dinner. My kids are lucky to get dinner and that I make it and do go buy fast food or give them TV dinners. I just want to do better. But I don't have time.

[Wingnut]

  Jennarator said:

I just want to do better.

Jenn, do your kids know this?

If they do, then you're doing it right. Even though you can't be home with them full-time, if they know you want to be, and that it kills you a little bit inside every day that you aren't home with them, they will recognize that. Maybe not now, maybe not even in three years. But when they're grown and going through the same trials you are now, they'll understand. And one day, they'll thank you for the sacrifices you made for family.

[Jennarator]

Like today.....sick child at home, alone.

Saturday is my baby's first b-day party. No time to make it nice.

[Irishcolleen]

  Jennarator said:

Classylady.....you hit it exactly. I feel like a failure! My kids have never had me at home. I am too pooped after work to be much help to anyone, I just make dinner and go to bed. I hate seeing people on FB that make homemade rolls everyday for dinner. My kids are lucky to get dinner and that I make it and do go buy fast food or give them TV dinners. I just want to do better. But I don't have time.

I don't know of any kid that grew up and said, "I wish Mom would have baked more homemade rolls when I was little." My mom worked and I never doubt her love. She is my mom and best friend (next to Hubby).

So what if you use convenience foods? Most stay at home moms use them too! My best advice is to make friends with your crock-pot and double recipes so you don't need to spend as much time in the kitchen and take a few minutes of quiet time w/ the kiddos before bed.

The fact that this concerns you so much shows that you love your babies dearly. They know that.

[applepansy]

  classylady said:

Women and guilt. We are so good at it. I haven't always had to work, but there would be long periods of time when I did. I felt guilty when working because I wasn't there for the kids, and I felt guilty not working because we could have really used the income.

I know my children suffered because I worked outside of the home. I was too exhausted to help them with school work at the end of the day. I was too tired to discipline them like I should have. My house wasn't as clean as I wanted it. I was too tired to clean after work. For ten years I had a job where I had to work many Sundays. Thankfully, I had a husband who always took the kids to church, but I feel my younger children have struggled spiritually because I wasn't there.

I can go on and on about the guilt I feel. My identity was never with my job or career. It has always been within my home. If my home was a mess, my husband wasn't the one judged for that, but I, the wife/mother was. Whenever I worked, I longed to be at home with my family. Even though I could do my job, my mind was always at home, not on the job. For those of us women who long to be home rather than at the job, we often don't consider the toll this takes on us emotionally. For me, it was a huge burden. I look at my decision to work, and now I wonder after all these years if it was worth it.

You hit the nail on the head. Its very hard to not feel the guilt and to blame ourselves as mothers for not being there to do all those things we feel responsible for. I know I did and do still feel guilty about a lot of things that didn't get done with my children.

I'm working on this though. I didn't work to buy a boat. I didn't work to take vacations. I worked to pay the house payment and buy food, clothes, etc. If I hadn't worked my children wouldn't have had some of the academic and high school sports opportunities that they cherish.

Today... my baby turned 25 in Jan ... I try to not beat myself up for my children's decisions. I did the best I could under the circumstances. I taught them the gospel and I made sure they heard the testimony of others. They were at church. They heard the gospel from almost everyone around them. Therefore, their choices now are not my responsibility.

Its really hard to get to a point where we stop beating ourselves up for our children's choices and realize they have their agency and absolutely NOTHING we do or say will change that. They get to choose.

Even SAHM's have children who struggle spiritually, or never learn to cook/clean, or ...well you name it. The world is pervasive in our lives and the lives of our children. It comes into our homes through the air.

We don't live in the same world we grew up in. My sister (age 42 and just having her new baby - born at 31 weeks) and I just had this discussion. The 20/30-something generation was raised with the majority of mothers working outside the home. We both see a lot lacking the in the education in values in the 20/30-something generation. She made some interesting observations. The Y generation was the generation where everything they did and even if they didn't do, was celebrated. (If they showed up they got a medal or certificate. Some even got recognized for an accomplishment even if they didn't show up.) This was the generation when "self esteem" was touted as most important. Not self worth, but self esteem. This generation learned that everything was instant and that there was always someone there to fix it if they messed up. I see a lot of selfishness in the Y generation. I also see many looking for someone else to fix their problems.

Before anyone gets upset at me about these observations, I would like to say emphatically, that I know some very unselfish, caring, giving, responsible 20/30-somethings. They are however, the minority. Also, my two younger children are among the selfish, irresponsible, you-fix-it group.

I see these deficits in my own children and I blame myself. I wasn't home to teach my daughter how to cook. But I did make an effort which she refused to accept. Now she's married, they eat fast food, or processed foods. Which brings me to another issue the Y generation is facing - health issues. I'm amazed at how many teens and 20-something's are having their digestive problems resulting in gall bladder surgeries, Crohn's disease, IBS, etc.

Is it our fault as their parents? Some of it is ... maybe. But some of it is the world we had to raise them in. The world became instant. I took advantage of some of the conveniences because I was working. The conveniences gave me time to teach the more important things. However, in taking advantage of the conveniences (the instant) I taught my children that instant can be good, and they have taken it one step further to "instant is the only way."

Every single time I get upset and start blaming myself for my children's decisions and choices I usually receive a very profound spiritual affirmation ... "You did what you could." I thank my Heavenly Father and my Savior for helping me understand agency and for helping me forgive myself for what I couldn't do.

Every person is a product of their environment. Heavenly Father knew the challenges the Y generation would face, just as he knew the challenges my generation would face. The right spirits were sent for the right time. I take comfort in that.

(I also pray for a few Alma the Younger experiences for my boys and my son-in-law.)

[applepansy]

  Jennarator said:

Like today.....sick child at home, alone.

Saturday is my baby's first b-day party. No time to make it nice.

Nice by your child's expectations is probably different than nice by your standards.

Your baby is not going to remember if the cake was store bought or home made. She isn't going to remember if you cooked all day to make yummy food or bought pizza. What she will remember is the love.

Sick child? She will remember that you helped her feel better and that you loved her. What she won't remember is that the sheets hadn't been changed that week.

(((hugs))) I know its hard to see from inside the issues but it does get easier.

Edited February 21, 2013 by applepansy

[applepansy]

Nobody can tell me if the dishes were done or the floor vacuumed on February 21, 1990.

[Jennarator]

  applepansy said:

nobody can tell me if the dishes were done or the floor vacuumed on february 21, 1990.

lol!

[Echo2002]

I think you need to do what is best for your children. If you can work, then I would work. Maybe it's temporary, until your husband finds a higher paying job.

I think the GAs have eased up on the "moms should stay at home". In this economy, a lot of time one income is not enough or the husband gets laid off and the wife has to work to keep food on the table.