Your perception of ex Mormonism

[selek]

I think terms such as "Ex-Mormon" are giving a negative connotation because it describe others for what they are not rather for what they are and let me tell you nobody likes to be described this way.

Your theory would work except for the fact that so many of them insist on describing themselves that way.

Once reality intrudes, the whole theory that this is OUR fault for "labeling" THEM falls apart.

The term "ex-Mormon" has negative connotations for only one reason: because so many negative people wear the title as a badge of honor.

[Suzie]

Your theory would work except for the fact that so many of them insist on describing themselves that way.

If they wish to be described that way, it's their prerogative. Having said that, doesn't mean we should go around labeling people as such.

Once reality intrudes, the whole theory that this is OUR fault for "labeling" THEM falls apart.

This is not US Vs. Them. It is that kind of sentiment that brings the negative connotation.

[selek]

If they wish to be described that way, it's their prerogative. Having said that, doesn't mean we should go around labeling people as such.

There you go again- pointing fingers at the wrong people.

No one in this thread has accused another of being an "anti-Mormon" or "ex-Mormon".

No one HERE has used the term as a perjorative.

WE are not the ones labeling them- and there is no wrong or sin in us acknowledging a term and a label THEY claim for themselves.

As you said, it's their prerogative- so kindly stop lecturing us about using the term they themselves prefer.

This is not US Vs. Them.

On the contrary, for the vast majority of those who proclaim themselves to be "ex-Mormon" or "anti-Mormon" as a badge of pride it IS a matter of US vs. THEM.

They choose to make it so.

It is that kind of sentiment that brings the negative connotation.

Yes- and it is a sentiment THEY embrace, endorse, and practice.

THEY- not WE are the one's running ministries designed to destroy people's testimonies and undermine the credibility of the Gospel, the Church, and its members.

It is THEY, not WE who devote hundreds of thousands of dollars and man-hours to attacking and destroying another's faith.

So, if you're going to point fingers, at least have the moral clarity to do in the proper direction.

Edited March 3, 2013 by selek

[Praetorian_Brow]

Look at their dog tags. Its interesting to see that no matter people's faith or whether they are practicing a religion, they still wish to have some association or last rites with a religion they have ties to.

I was in an urban exercise, climbed to the roof of a barn with a C9 and got shot in the head with simunition as I was deploying the bipod. Then I was dragged do the "dead" room and a chaplain was going around giving everyone rites based on their religion and it was astonishing to hear him give a blessing that was very LDS, even though I wasn't practicing at the time.

[Suzie]

There you go again- pointing fingers at the wrong people.

No one in this thread has accused another of being an "anti-Mormon" or"ex-Mormon"

No one HERE has used the term as a perjorative (sic)

Who is talking about this thread?

As you said, it's their prerogative- so kindly stop lecturing us about using the term they themselves prefer.

I didn't know I was lecturing.I thought I was sharing my view just as you are. But please unless you are my dad I don't think you should say that. However, if you do not wish to read my thoughts because you feel I am lecturing you, you are free to explore other threads. :)

[Suzie]

So because there are varying perceptions of what entails ex Mormonism and what an ex Mormon is, what is your definition? Do you use the term "ex Mormon" as a label for any and all persons that have resigned from Mormonism? Or just those that openly degrade Mormonism?

Bini, I think the problem is that sometimes the terms Ex-Mormon and Anti-Mormon are used interchangeably. An Ex-Mormon iisn't necessarily an Anti-Mormon (some are, some aren't) so using the terms interchangeably IMHO, could be problematic.

[Vort]

Bini, I think the problem is that sometimes the terms Ex-Mormon and Anti-Mormon are used interchangeably. An Ex-Mormon iisn't necessarily an Anti-Mormon (some are, some aren't) so using the terms interchangeably IMHO, could be problematic.

And sadly, not all anti-Mormons are ex-Mormons. Some retain their membership in order to be wolves in the flock of sheep.

[Guest]

And sadly, not all anti-Mormons are ex-Mormons. Some retain their membership in order to be wolves in the flock of sheep.

You mean there are those who hate the Church and its people, and criticize the leadership, and pick and choose what doctrine to believe in, who are active and carry temple recommends? Surely you jest.

[Vort]

You mean there are those who hate the Church and its people, and criticize the leadership, and pick and choose what doctrine to believe in, who are active and carry temple recommends? Surely you jest.

How I wish I did.

[pam]

Yeh I could probably name a couple.

[SF_Giants66]

All of the ex-Mormons I deal with can be summarized in two words: bitter and angry

You don't know any bitter and angry Mormons grinding their ax against Ex-Mormons and those who contradict their faith?

[SF_Giants66]

As someone else who is no longer a Mormon, my reason or not being a member of the church anymore was because I couldn't handle ambiguity well. I feel that it is hard to be on the thought process that everything is either right or wrong and that we should allow religion to stop our thinking for us. There are several positive videos at [moderator removed] which people are actually not angry or bitter but stating their happiness in their new life outside of the church to give others struggling with the same issues some hope that there is life beyond Mormonism. I think it would help answer you question to check some of those videos out.

For me I had problems with faith in god as it fluctuated day by day but when I saw in research that B.H. Roberts said that The Book of Mormon didn't have to be from a divine source and could have been hypothetically made up it was enough for me along with my other doubts.

I don't actually have any bitterness or anger for people being allowed to choose where they stand with philosophy as well, but just like one other person said, the ones who leave the church and go through anger and revenge are the ones who are the most noticed, but there are many who aren't.

I am also part of a community called Life After Mormonism at [moderator removed] that you should check out.

If you want to learn more about Ex-Mormons, why not ask a community of people who are Ex-Mormons?

Edited March 9, 2013 by skippy740
We don't provide links to organizations that do not support church membership on this site and is a rule violation.

[Just_A_Guy]

For me I had problems with faith in god as it fluctuated day by day but when I saw in research that B.H. Roberts said that The Book of Mormon didn't have to be from a divine source and could have been hypothetically made up it was enough for me along with my other doubts.

You lost your faith because a Seventy was intellectually honest enough to write that a matter of faith cannot, at the current point in time, be scientifically proven? Really?

If you want to learn more about Ex-Mormons, why not ask a community of people who are Ex-Mormons?

My experience is that the emissaries they send back to LDS.net from time to time, tend to be pretty representative of the whole.

[SF_Giants66]

You lost your faith because a Seventy was intellectually honest enough to write that a matter of faith cannot, at the current point in time, be scientifically proven? Really?

My experience is that the emissaries they send back to LDS.net from time to time, tend to be pretty representative of the whole.

No, you have to be careful now because this is not what I claimed and you're getting upset an angry for no reason.

What I was stating is that I at once thought that The Book of Mormon was too complex to have been made up, and after some of these statements I found out there were many things I never knew about such as the View of the Hebrews, the Spaulding Manuscripts, etc. There are many similarities between those and The Book of Mormon. That was also only one reason and not the only reason. The other dagger to my faith was finding out that Joseph Smith was married to women who had other husbands at the time and that seems to be a reason many people have. That isn't speculation or rumor, as I believe even familysearch.org which correct me if I am wrong think it is an LDS Church family history site confirms those records.

Also, you claiming that all Ex-Mormons represent the whole community is the same as others who have a bad experience with a Mormon saying that all Mormons are the same.

I don't go around burning scriptures, holding up signs at LDS events, preach on the streets against the Mormon church. Each comment I made since I joined here was only an answer to a topic question posted which you can see in my profile. I even went to my sister's baptism only because she asked me to go and I said no thanks several times first. My mom also worked out a deal with me and she is now going to go see Richard Dawkins live with me because I went to Stake Conference with her.

So I think I am a very reasonable guy and I welcome you to correct anything I said that wasn't factual or that I mis-interpreted but insulting me isn't going to make me think any more positively of your cause.

[Just_A_Guy]

No, you have to be careful now because this is not what I claimed and you're getting upset an angry for no reason.

Quote to the contrary; I am neither.

What I was stating is that I at once thought that The Book of Mormon was too complex to have been made up, and after some of these statements I found out there were many things I never knew about such as the View of the Hebrews, the Spaulding Manuscripts, etc. There are many similarities between those and The Book of Mormon.

The View of the Hebrews argument betrays up a curious line of reasoning. The fact that a well-respected author in the nineteenth century thought there might have been Hebrews in the ancient Americas, proves the Book of Mormon is false. But the fact that a well-respected author in the twenty-first centuries thinks there were no Hebrews in the ancient Americas--proves the Book of Mormon is false.

As for the Spaulding manuscript: Have you read it?

The other dagger to my faith was finding out that Joseph Smith was married to women who had other husbands at the time . . .

And?

Also, you claiming that all Ex-Mormons represent the whole community is the same as others who have a bad experience with a Mormon saying that all Mormons are the same.

That is not what I said.

So I think I am a very reasonable guy and I welcome you to correct anything I said that wasn't factual or that I mis-interpreted but insulting me isn't going to make me think any more positively of your cause.

I did not insult you, I refuted you. I am sorry if what I wrote upsets or angers you, but a rebuttal is not an insult.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Just_A_Guy

[SF_Giants66]

It doesn't make sense that someone would need to marry women already married. That is actually a violation of one of Joseph Smith's writings in D&C in which he interfered with his own salvation. It also doesn't make sense to receive a revelation of the Word of Wisdom and still continue to drink and smoke after that. I could go on and on but I don't think I would be telling you anything you haven't heard before. I read some rather shocking information in "No Man Knows My History" as well. I did spend a lot of time defending the church and doing research on FairLDS as well but wasn't enough to maintain faith. Leaving the LDS church was a painful decision but I can say that it was the best decision I ever made. I improved a lot of things in my life as well as eliminated the need for my anti-depressants and feel life is more open and unrestrained.

[SanctitasDeo]

No, you have to be careful now because this is not what I claimed and you're getting upset an angry for no reason.

He does't seem angry or upset. He just asked a question. Also, "tend to be representative" does not mean "all Ex-Mormons represent the while community." He may think that they are more representative than you do, but the discussion here is pretty subjective and relies on his knowledge of ex-mormons who have posted here in the past, as well as his experience with ex-mormons in general. Neither of us know what that is.

(In fact, a message board is even more subjective and distant from reality than a face-to-face conversation, but that is another topic).

It seems to me to be easier to expect that people are people. Plenty leave Mormonism without any problems and never look back. Plenty are bothered just enough to need an online community and want to defend the idea of ex-mormonism online on Mormon forums. Plenty would like to destroy the church for whatever reason. And plenty of people are just fine continuing to be believing members of the church despite their knowledge (or maybe because of) of Mormon history, Spaulding manuscripts, etc.

If you want to learn more about Ex-Mormons, why not ask a community of people who are Ex-Mormons?

Personally, I have. It pretty much checked out against what I wrote above, with the caveat that an online community of ex-mormons is self-selected and leaves out the possible number of ex-mormons who just join another church (or don't) and never look back. The online community can never be fully descriptive of ex-mormons.

[SanctitasDeo]

It doesn't make sense that someone would need to marry women already married. That is actually a violation of one of Joseph Smith's writings in D&C in which he interfered with his own salvation. It also doesn't make sense to receive a revelation of the Word of Wisdom and still continue to drink and smoke after that. I could go on and on but I don't think I would be telling you anything you haven't heard before. I read some rather shocking information in "No Man Knows My History" as well. I did spend a lot of time defending the church and doing research on FairLDS as well but wasn't enough to maintain faith. Leaving the LDS church was a painful decision but I can say that it was the best decision I ever made. I improved a lot of things in my life as well as eliminated the need for my anti-depressants and feel life is more open and unrestrained.

The bit about the Word of Wisdom actually makes quite a bit of sense, considering how it was received and treated for the first few decades. It was not a law until much later. There are plenty of words of wisdom now that we still do not treat as law, particularly.

As for Joseph and his wives, there are plenty of things we do not understand about marriage, its purpose, and the sealing of the human family. I don't believe in God (the Father and Mother), Christ, and the Holy Ghost because Joseph was such a great guy. I believe because they have revealed themselves to me.

Edit:

I had another thought. None of this is reason for you to believe and suddenly be a Mormon again. If you do not believe God wants you to be Mormon, you probably shouldn't. That way you aren't half-believing in something important.

I just find the insinuation (not that you are even making it) that the Church's history or Joseph Smith's history makes it impossible for a rational person to believe inaccurate, so I figured I would comment.

Edited March 9, 2013 by SanctitasDeo

[SF_Giants66]

Personally, I have. It pretty much checked out against what I wrote above, with the caveat that an online community of ex-mormons is self-selected and leaves out the possible number of ex-mormons who just join another church (or don't) and never look back. The online community can never be fully descriptive of ex-mormons.

Okay, you do have a point there. In one of my communities we actually have a chat room and don't really talk about the church all that much, just being former members is the thing that brings us together. The Ex-Mormon Conference is also held once a year in Salt Lake City and I went in 2011 and they keep their archives of their talks and people's stories online as well. They have some pretty interesting viewpoints and provide advice for finding good community. Leaving the LDS church it is hard to make up that community sometimes so that is the main reason we have events such as this.

[Just_A_Guy]

It doesn't make sense that someone would need to marry women already married. That is actually a violation of one of Joseph Smith's writings in D&C in which he interfered with his own salvation.

If you're referring to the Article on Marriage in early editions of the D&C: That was not one of Joseph Smith's writings. It was produced by Oliver Cowdery, probably as a direct response to the Fanny Alger affair, rammed through a conference of the Church in Smith's absence, and presented to him on his return as a done deal.

It also doesn't make sense to receive a revelation of the Word of Wisdom and still continue to drink and smoke after that.

Unless you've actually read the revelation.

I could go on and on but I don't think I would be telling you anything you haven't heard before.

Probably not.

I read some rather shocking information in "No Man Knows My History" as well. I did spend a lot of time defending the church and doing research on FairLDS as well but wasn't enough to maintain faith.

I won't call you out as a liar; but I will respectfully submit, based on some of your posts to this thread, that you perhaps could have been more thorough.

Leaving the LDS church was a painful decision but I can say that it was the best decision I ever made. I improved a lot of things in my life as well as eliminated the need for my anti-depressants and feel life is more open and unrestrained.

I'm sure it is.

[SF_Giants66]

LOL. It's funny that you would link a masturbation forum to fit your argument. I actually was referring to a lot more than just sexual repression when talking about an unrestrained lifestyle, although sexual repression is one of the top 5 reasons people leave the church. Why do you think masturbation is the most common searched word among members on this forum?

Actually, you can call me a liar all you want, but I actually am friends with some Ex-Mormons now that I argued with like you are doing with me now. It doesn't sound like you try to hard to get people into the church.

[Tough Grits]

LOL. It's funny that you would link a masturbation forum to fit your argument. I actually was referring to a lot more than just sexual repression when talking about an unrestrained lifestyle, although sexual repression is one of the top 5 reasons people leave the church. Why do you think masturbation is the most common searched word among members on this forum?

Actually, you can call me a liar all you want, but I actually am friends with some Ex-Mormons now that I argued with like you are doing with me now. It doesn't sound like you try to hard to get people into the church.

I think you are being unfair and unfounded in your harsh stance and words with Just_A_Guy. He, in my opinion, has not been rude or insulting to you in any way.

[SF_Giants66]

I think you are being unfair and unfounded in your harsh stance and words with Just_A_Guy. He, in my opinion, has not been rude or insulting to you in any way.

Saying things like, "well I won't call you out as a liar" as well as making sarcastic remarks and posting links to other topics as a method to call me out is actually something I consider rude and insulting. Maybe you don't though.

[Tough Grits]

Saying things like, "well I won't call you out as a liar" as well as making sarcastic remarks and posting links to other topics as a method to call me out is actually something I consider rude and insulting. Maybe you don't though.

My opinion, of course, is just an opinion. I am not trying to tell you what to think or feel. I am only suggesting that maybe a different perspective can/should be taken in rereading Just_A_Guy's post. But that is entirely up to you.

Peace, ~TG

[SF_Giants66]

Well it is just that when I claim I was a devoted member and people say I wasn't that is the "no true scottsman" fallacy by trying to refute my argument by saying I never truly believed in the first place. That is actually something I take offense to and is not refuting my argument at all.