Leadership Meetings

[Drpepper]

I walk into the room and see 20 - 30 men dressed in suits and ties very conservative looking and well presented. This is a leadership meeting and all Bishoprics, Stake Presidency and Mission President are involved. After the opening prayer, the usual discussion about doing more, being more and working more seem to evolve naturally. Its suggested by the president that we should be out 3 nights a week ministering. I quickly start adding up my hours for Youth, Seminary, Personal Business not to mention Family Time and realise God didn't give me a 10 day week but wished he had. The Mission President drops the comment don't worry about your families you can have them in the millennium. Im hoping they will remember who I am if i commit to that many hours of service a week. I need to squeeze in Temple Visits, Family History, Part Time Study, Daddy Daughter Dates, PEC, Ward Council and Bishopric as well. Suddenly the 10 day week Isn't enough I need 14 day week. I close my eyes and continue to listen to the conversation. This meeting suddenly doesn't sound to different to some of the business meetings I had attended earlier that day. Before long 1 and half hours have passed, the scriptures were never opened, no mention of the spirit and Jesus was on holiday's, I think. A christian friend of mine's comment suddenly drops into my mind. All Mormons are trying to work there way to heaven. I don't believe that's true but im sure grateful he wasn't in this meeting with me, he would have just turned his head and said see, I told you so...

I open my eyes and look around at the faces of some of the men, some are tired and worn a few have found comfort in Lehi's dream. Finally the meeting finishes, at

least with a prayer, thats good i think to myself i was about to hand in my KPI's and Projected Analysis Report until i remembered where I was. I quickly do a spiritual check in with myself. Do i feel uplifted? Energised, ready to take on the world, ready to inspire others and preach to all nations. Or do i feel like I haven't done enough, should be reorganising my time, need to do more, be more. I sense a little guilt resting on some of the mens shoulders, others seem to brush it off like they have heard it all before.

We all head off in our own directions atleast the pizza was good.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Drpepper
bad speller

[mikbone]

I have many callings:

Husband, father to 10, breadwinner, Elder's Quorum councillor. I try to divide my time equally between my callings and I count each child as a calling...

I find the statement "Don't worry about your families. You can have them in the millennium." incredibly obtuse.

In my youth I observed both my bishop and stake president lose their church memberships and families.

Service and Charity are no doubt important and Godly. But, “No other success can compensate for failure in the home.”

Edited March 19, 2013 by mikbone

[Suzie]

When I read your post, I felt sad. We have some some wonderful members in the Church, willing to make a lot of sacrifices to serve faithfully and do the best they can HOWEVER, the vision should never be lost or confused. Church callings are NOT our first and most important responsibly Our families ARE our biggest and most important responsibility. It worries me when well-intentioned statements such as the one you described by the Mission President are shared in Church meetings.

[viannqueen3]

I think attitudes and comments of your Mission President in this regard are completely asinine. Nobody in 10 years is going to remember that brother so and so didn't stop by their house for an additional visit or ministry work. Children of those leaders WILL however remember that dad was never around for them because he was gone doing church "stuff" all the time. I understand that sometimes the time we dedicate to church responsibilities ebbs and flows but people also have to learn how to say no for the sake of their families.

I have to say I am FIERCELY protective of my husbands time dedicated to church service as I have three young children at home and he works till 7pm most nights. Our oldest child was adopted through LDSFS and it never ceases to amaze me that the church promotes adoption so that these children "can have a father figure in the home" and in that same breath attitudes like your mission president would gladly guilt my husband into never being around for their waking hours.

[skippy740]

Whatever service you are rendering... it seems that it is NEVER enough.

Do we often hear a 'thank you'? Only the customary statements.

"We've got to do more!" is the same cry we generally hear from leaders as well as business managers.

But we can't do it alone and we can't handle more than we can reasonably bear.

Quorum leaders should be LEADING AND DIRECTING... not doing ALL the work. Sunday, we reviewed the lesson on "being perfect". My EQ President was talking about the work load on HIS shoulders... and that it seemed that he was bearing it alone.

That's not the way the Lord wants it done. When we sustain leaders, we covenant to help them to carry out the work. By small and simple means are great things brought to pass. My EQ President needs to delegate more and teach more about what it means to sustain.

So, I think leadership isn't delegating enough, and I think members who ARE active, are getting more than the Lion's share of the work.

There must be a balance in carrying out the work... and I wouldn't be afraid to use the word "no" with a priesthood leader, if it has to come to that.

[BadWolf]

I have many callings:

Husband, father to 10, breadwinner, Elder's Quorum councillor. I try to divide my time equally between my callings and I count each child as a calling...

Amen.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

You know what I think the trouble is?....this just came to me...

You've heard the story about how a Bishop asks his ward for more fast offerings in order to help the needy in the ward.....and the needy in the ward are the only ones that end up increasing their fast offerings?

I think that is what is going on here...good men that want to serve the Lord, then some asks for the "slackers" (sorry, just trying to be plain not insulting) to do a little more...but just like in the fast offering story, it is those that are already giving all they have that try to find a little more time.

Be careful not to do that. The Lord told us do not run faster than you have strength. I agree with those that said we should consider FAMILY our first calling and biggest responsibility. If you neglect them here, they might not want YOU later. It's the old death bed thing...in the end will you wish you had spent more time home teaching or with your family?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

You know what I think the trouble is?....this just came to me...

You've heard the story about how a Bishop asks his ward for more fast offerings in order to help the needy in the ward.....and the needy in the ward are the only ones that end up increasing their fast offerings?

I think that is what is going on here...good men that want to serve the Lord, then someone asks for the "slackers" (sorry, just trying to be plain not insulting) to do a little more...but just like in the fast offering story, it is those that are already giving all they have that try to find a little more time.

Be careful not to do that. The Lord told us do not run faster than you have strength. I agree with those that said we should consider FAMILY our first calling and biggest responsibility. If you neglect them here, they might not want YOU later. It's the old death bed thing...in the end will you wish you had spent more time home teaching or with your family?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Service and Charity are no doubt important and Godly. But, “No other success can compensate for failure in the home.”

OH!~ I think this is on the nose! This sort of discussion is what that quote by Pres. McKay is about....sadly so many families apply it to situations it was not intended for (wayward children etc) and feel bad. That is unfortunate. In this conversation though, that is on the nose!

[MarginOfError]

I walk into the room and see 20 - 30 men dressed in suits and ties very conservative looking and well presented. This is a leadership meeting and all Bishoprics, Stake Presidency and Mission President are involved. After the opening prayer, the usual discussion about doing more, being more and working more seem to evolve naturally. Its suggested by the president that we should be out 3 nights a week ministering. I quickly start adding up my hours for Youth, Seminary, Personal Business not to mention Family Time and realise God didn't give me a 10 day week but wished he had. The Mission President drops the comment don't worry about your families you can have them in the millennium.

My father attended a meeting with Elders Perry, Cook, and Christensen (two apostles and a president of the Seventy). The meeting was exclusively for bishops, branch presidents, and stake presidents. In that meeting, either Elder Perry or Elder Cook (I can't remember which one) told them that bishops/branch presidents should be out no more than one night a week. Stake presidents should be out no more than two nights a week. If they are going out more than that, they are doing too much work themselves and need to pass some of the work onto their quorums and auxiliaries.

Personally, I have a hard time taking anything from mission presidents too seriously. They're so engrossed in one aspect of the Church's mission that they have a tendency to forget how real life operates. This sounds like another case of the negative side of mission blinders.

[rameumptom]

Your mission president's counsel goes against the teachings of the GAs. They state that your family comes first NOW, not in the Millennium. What good is it to save the world, and lose your family?

There needs to be a balance in our lives. Yes, we must sacrifice, but each of us must determine what that sacrifice will be as we counsel with God. It is not a "one size fits all". Leaders that push numbers, acting like you are being paid to do their work, when in reality we are all volunteers (hopefully doing the best we can), is ridiculous.

That said, there are many who do not live up to their potential. Still, there are better ways to reach them: individually, not as a huge group. As for being out 3 nights a week, and that it is okay to neglect your family: that is a devil's formula for destroying the strong families in a stake. Yes, there may be some who can do 3 nights a week all the time, and most who can do 3 nights a week on occasion, but to mandate it as fiat for everyone seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

Better to teach the leaders how to work smarter, not longer.

[Guest]

I've had a bishop who was insistent that the ward leadership hold no more meetings than absolutely necessary. I now have a bishop who has held the exact same meeting for the exact same people, having the exact same discussion, 3 times since the beginning of the year. I'm not sure why. Maybe he has a reason. But it seems to me that neither bishop was more effective than the other; it's just that the current one seems to have people away from home more often.

Sometimes we have to work smarter. Sometimes we have to drop things that aren't essential in our ward. Mostly I agree that too many people find excuses not to do their part, leaving more work for the rest of us.

[Anddenex]

What I find most interesting regarding the Church (callings, duties, responsibilities, assignments, etc...) is the reformation regarding the parenthesised elements.

In the beginning of the Church, Elders were called on missions while leaving their wives and children home alone -- as they trusted in the Lord.

In all aspects, our first duty is actually to the Lord our God -- the first great commandment. If he speaks and tells us to move whether or not we agree or understand...we move. Our second duty and responsibility is to our family.

The question then, what is the breaking point between honoring God and honoring our family. I have never been called to serve a mission away from my family, trusting in the Lord that he will take care of them. I have been called to other responsibilities while I am still able to see them awake, sometimes, I am able to kiss them on their foreheads while they are asleep.

I wonder at times if I were to speak with Brother Brigham, "Yea, Brigham it was so tough -- they asked me to spend one more night a week out ministering away from my family...how could they??" I assume he will smile, put his hand on my shoulder, and respond something to this nature, "Yes, how could they?"

I believe in the power of grace that when I honor the first commandment, and do not place the second commandment in front of the first, that the Lord will supplement my absence with grace toward my wife and toward my children.

I am busy right now. I work two jobs, and I am in the bishopric in our ward. I see my family Sunday night, Monday night and Thursday night. The other times, I am away.

However, these are some of my thoughts, and I agree with the majority of the sentiments here, especially the idea of working smarter and not longer.

This is why I like the word we must find harmony between our love for God and our love for our family instead of balance.

[MarginOfError]

In all aspects, our first duty is actually to the Lord our God -- the first great commandment. If he speaks and tells us to move whether or not we agree or understand...we move. Our second duty and responsibility is to our family.

Interestingly, another thing that was shared at the meeting I described earlier was that, according to Elder Perry, I think, our priorities should be to

1. Our family

2. Our employer

3. Our callings

4. Ourselves

Now, I'm not sure I agree with the notion of prioritizing these things. They are competing interests that need balance, and one will prioritize over the others every now and again. (In fact, I personally heard Elder Bednar say that we should prioritize whichever one of those four is in the greatest need at any given moment).

In any case, I haven't heard many modern Apostles teach that we should prioritize the Church over our families. They seem to be going the other way on that one.

[Anddenex]

In any case, I haven't heard many modern Apostles teach that we should prioritize the Church over our families. They seem to be going the other way on that one.

I don't believe any Apostle has taught that Church should be prioritized over our families. I, also, did not mention that the Church should be our priority over families. So, I agree with the sentiment.

I actually shared Matthew 22: 37-39. Our first responsibility is to love God with all our heart, might, mind, and strength. This is the first and great commandment. The second is our love our neighbor as ourselves.

[trubludru]

Also, many seem to think God and church are the same thing. That is not true. There are a myriad of church programs, activities, and callings you could spend all your time on, that doesn't necessairily mean you doing what God wants you to be doing.

You do have to find balance, yes family is important and should be a high priority, but there are also duties and responsibilites in the church that should be a high priority as well. It is a matter of finding the proper balance.

Suppose there is a Gospel Doctrine teacher who is an older retired lady, I am sure she could spend hours and hours preparing for each lesson she teaches. But she has the time to. Does that mean that another ward member who also teaches Gospel Doctrine and is a mother with 4 young children should be spending the same amount of time preparing a lesson? No, clearly more of her time needs to be spent caring for her children. But hopefully she can find some time to prepare her lesson because she still has that responsibility, but clearly she probably wont be spending 6 hours preparing a lesson like the retired lady might be able to.

I think the same applies to Priesthood leadership or really most callings in the church. An older brother serving in the Bishopric may have more time to spend in meetings or out visting because he doesn't have a family at home. But if there is a younger brother in the Bishopric, he is still going to be spending an awful lot of time on his calling but hopefully he would not be out doing visits or other things quite as often as the older brother.

I am also of the opinion that God will bless those who try to both serve faithfully in the church and maintain a balance with their family. There is also the point of parents setting an example for children that serving the Lord thru various church callings is important so long as it doesn't become an excuse for ignoring other parts of your life.

[Drpepper]

I wonder at times if I were to speak with Brother Brigham, "Yea, Brigham it was so tough -- they asked me to spend one more night a week out ministering away from my family...how could they??" I assume he will smile, put his hand on my shoulder, and respond something to this nature, "Yes, how could they?"

balance.

or maybe he would say "I just leave my children with my wives they all help each other out while Im away." What about you brother?

Clearly the family dynamics has changed a lot since Brigham's day and we can't keep looking back to old prophets for modern day solutions. Kind of defeats the purpose of modern revelation.

It was President Hinckley that listed our four areas of responsibility in a Leadership training meeting 2003 and he did put them in an order. Here is the quote below

In the worldwide leadership training meeting held on June 21, 2003, President Gordon B. Hinckley taught us that as priesthood holders we have a fourfold responsibility. He said: “Each of us has a fourfold responsibility. First, we have a responsibility to our families. Second, we have a responsibility to our employers. Third, we have a responsibility to the Lord’s work. Fourth, we have a responsibility to ourselves.”

President Hinckley said: “It is imperative that you not neglect your families. Nothing you have is more precious.”

[Vort]

Clearly the family dynamics has changed a lot since Brigham's day and we can't keep looking back to old prophets for modern day solutions. Kind of defeats the purpose of modern revelation.

I suspect the family dynamic has not changed nearly as much as you suppose.

[Drpepper]

I suspect the family dynamic has not changed nearly as much as you suppose.

I was referring to Brigham having many wives to help out. Not sure about your part of the world but in mine. Thats changed...

[Anddenex]

Clearly the family dynamics has changed a lot since Brigham's day and we can't keep looking back to old prophets for modern day solutions. Kind of defeats the purpose of modern revelation.

Well, I suppose I should just throw out the Book of Mormon and Bible because these are "old prophets" who really don't have any "modern day solutions."

It was President Hinckley that listed our four areas of responsibility in a Leadership training meeting 2003 and he did put them in an order. Here is the quote below

In the worldwide leadership training meeting held on June 21, 2003, President Gordon B. Hinckley taught us that as priesthood holders we have a fourfold responsibility. He said: “Each of us has a fourfold responsibility. First, we have a responsibility to our families. Second, we have a responsibility to our employers. Third, we have a responsibility to the Lord’s work. Fourth, we have a responsibility to ourselves.”

President Hinckley said: “It is imperative that you not neglect your families. Nothing you have is more precious.”

Yes, President Hinckley did say this, and as I shared with MoE, I said nothing to the contrary, unless you feel Matthew 22: 37-39 contradicts President Hinckley's words.

[Drpepper]

Well, I suppose I should just throw out the Book of Mormon and Bible because these are "old prophets" who really don't have any "modern day solutions."

you make me laugh no i would suggest you hold onto those books a little longer:lol:

What I was saying ( in context ) is that Its nice to have a modern day prophet for direction particularly in family matters.

[Anddenex]

you make me laugh no i would suggest you hold onto those books a little longer:lol:

What I was saying ( in context ) is that Its nice to have a modern day prophet for direction particularly in family matters.

Yes, agreed. Thank you for accepting my humor.

[Wingnut]

The question then, what is the breaking point between honoring God and honoring our family.

There may also be some discrepancy between what God wants and what our local leadership instructs. I don't presume to think that every time they offer counsel, it's exactly as if the Lord were saying it. I certainly don't think that He would tell us that we don't need to worry about spending time with our families until the Millennium.

[Anddenex]

There may also be some discrepancy between what God wants and what our local leadership instructs.

This is most definitely an accurate assessment.

I don't presume to think that every time they offer counsel, it's exactly as if the Lord were saying it.

I believe I am about to share the same thing, but in a different way, or maybe in a way one might say "Is the cup half empty, or half full?"

I expect my local leaders to give me counsel the Lord exactly wants me to hear. Thus, I presume the counsel they give will be from the Lord. Once spoken, the Lord will witness to me, if this is from him, or the sincere desire of an over-zealous local leader.

If the counsel is not from the Lord, I am under no obligation (with regard to my covenants) to follow the counsel, however, if I should judge counsel which has been provided as not from the Lord, but is from the Lord (whether I agree or not is irrelevant), then I have found myself in a state of opposition to God...not a good place to be in (You know this, preaching to the choir).

I certainly don't think that He would tell us that we don't need to worry about spending time with our families until the Millennium.

I am assuming that this statement was made in humor, it might not be the best humor, but it was probably made in humor. However, DrP. was there and he would know better than I.

Threads like these always make me wonder, if the Lord decided -- through his prophets -- asked me to leave and serve as he asked Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball, Wilford Woodruff, and others, would I accept the call in humility and love for God as they did?

I hope that I would. The first and great commandment is the most important commandment. We place our love for God above all other things.

The second commandment is next, a love for our neighbors. Our neighbors would be our families. Under the second commandment, our families are our first priorities, all else fall under love of God and love of our family.

[Wingnut]

I certainly don't think that He would tell us that we don't need to worry about spending time with our families until the Millennium.

I am assuming that this statement was made in humor, it might not be the best humor, but it was probably made in humor. However, DrP. was there and he would know better than I.

That statement was not made humorously at all. I believe that well-meaning mission presidents and/or local leadership might tell us that we'll have all the time in the world to spend with our families during the Millennium, and as such, we don't need to worry about spending more nights out ministering now. I do not believe the Lord would tell us to neglect our families while in this life.