new vs old - which is better?

[searching_questioner]

If the church were to compile a book 531 pages long, of the most inspirational, powerful, instructional sermons, selected from all the prophets and apostles since the restoration, would we end up with a set of more powerful, inspirational, instructional sermons than what we have in the compilation of history and sermons that we call the Book of Mormon?

[bytebear]

Not unless we have a direct visitation from Christ. So perhaps in 1000 years after the second coming.

[pam]

What could be more powerful, more instructional, more inspirational than words from Christ as recorded in the Book of Mormon?

[NeuroTypical]

Any guesses about what percentage of that 531 page new book, would be direct quotes from the BoM?

[searching_questioner]

What could be more powerful, more instructional, more inspirational than words from Christ as recorded in the Book of Mormon?

The words of Christ to Joseph Smith as recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants - intended directly for us, here and now and far more relevant to the here and now than something intended for a completely different culture 2000 years ago. And the words of modern day apostles and prophets, as given from Christ through the Holy Ghost.

And yes, the 17 chapters that record Christs' visit and teachings are good, but six of those chapters are a repeat of what we have elsewhere, some verses are a little outdated, (compare D&C 115:4 with 3rd Nephi 27:8 - the name of the church today only approximately, and not strictly follows the naming convention referred to in 3rd Nephi.), some of it - chapter 15 - relates only to the Nephites of the time, and half of chapters 19 and 23 are historical narrative rather than Christ's teachings.

So I'm suggesting that, as good as the chapters on Christ's visit are, there aren't many of them and they might not be enough to lift the overall power and instruction of the Book of Mormon to something that could be compiled from modern day teachings, all of which, just like 3rd Nephi, comes from Christ. Think of the King Follet discourses. Bruce R McConkie on Christ and the atonement. Ezra Taft Benson on pride, Gordon B Hinckley on the family. Spencer W Kimball missionary work and the Priesthood. Joseph F Smith on the Origins of Man. Brigham Young or Neal A Maxwell on just about anything. Do mostly historical narratives, interspersed with occasional teachings really compare? What do you get more guidance and inspiration from - conference talks or the Book of Mormon?

[mnn727]

I've thought so for a couple years, but we can read those inspirational message online in the General Conf. section of LDS.org. We also have the teachings of the Presidents of the Church.

[Wingnut]

Any guesses about what percentage of that 531 page new book, would be direct quotes from the BoM?

Oh, good question!

Good hypothetical overall. I'm inclined to think that perhaps there might be less Isaiah (since we already have it elsewhere), and maybe a little more Holland.

Not to downplay or dismiss the importance of the Book of Mormon at all, but aren't we taught that a living prophet is more true than a dead one?

[NeuroTypical]

Well, there are people who teach that, yes. But I've found that usually, they teach it because they are struggling at reconciling antimormon criticisms. The better things to teach and believe:

* Prophet Brigham Young's words, delivered from the pulpit, are more true than Governor Brigham Young's words, delivered to a secular governing assembly of some sort.

* Revealation is more true than speculation or opinion. Prophets do all three - know which one you're listening to before you go about accepting.

* The advice Prophets give specific groups at specific times for specific reasons, are more appliccable when it's being given to your group, today, for your edification. It's not about more or less true. It's about what God wants of different people at different times.

[ElectofGod]

but aren't we taught that a living prophet is more true than a dead one?

EDIT: I like loudmouths response better.

Unfortunately yes. I too always had this attitude until the past few months. We should accept the living as great inspired guidance for us today. We should accept the BOM as doctrine. Than when something is sustained in the church as doctrine accept it as such.

Most of the BOM is wars, because we are going to have similar wars today.

Most of the BOM is about those who deny Christ, because we too today deny Christ.

Most of the BOM is about Secret Combinations, because we too have the same problem

The BOM is about two civilizations that were destoryed, we too will be destroyed in like manner and only "a few" of the followers of Christ will survive it, many will die (even the faithful).

Now what would we write?

Depends who its written to. Is it written to another wicked society like our own? Than we would have the same words as the book of mormon. The D&C does have great insight as well. So I would assume there would be another for their time of "how to setup" the church and prepare every needful thing for their day. Though this hasn't changed much for the past 6000 years.

If its to a faithful Millennium society, than we would have things that we do not have even revealed today written. Yet we can receive what is not revealed (the sealed portion) through communing with angels, Christ, receiving revelations of God through the spirit, dreams, visions.

Now hypothetically. I would say, forget writing anything. Lets get a compilation of the best videos and make a video book of Holland, Bednar, Uchdtdorf, Eying, Benson, McConkie, etc.... Who needs to read in the future?

Edited April 29, 2013 by ElectofGod

[pam]

I think it can become dangerous territory when we start having to choose between what is better. Whether it be the Book of Mormon or talks by current general authorities. Both are important. The Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ. It is a history of those people who were visited by Christ. Can we not still learn valuable lessons from it? Of course we can. ElectofGod mentioned how history is basically repeating itself. While it was a history it was also written for people in our day and age. That's why it was translated during this dispensation. That's why we, as a church, are willing to hand out as many free Book of Mormons as we can. Because we know of the importance and the truth of its writings and teachings.

Talks by our general authorities are to help and re-emphasize so many of the things that we can learn in the Book of Mormon. They aren't to replace those teachings but again to re-emphasize. It's great that we can have both.

Edited April 29, 2013 by pam

[rameumptom]

I think it could only be more powerful if most of the book was a compilation of talks given by Elders Holland and Uchtdorf....

[Vort]

The words of Christ to Joseph Smith as recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants - intended directly for us, here and now and far more relevant to the here and now than something intended for a completely different culture 2000 years ago.

You are mistaken. The Book of Mormon was never intended for the Nephite people. No Nephite other than Mormon and Moroni ever read the book. It was always intended from us, from the moment it began to be compiled.

What do you get more guidance and inspiration from - conference talks or the Book of Mormon?

The Book of Mormon, hands down. (And I listen to every General Conference talk from the latest Conference at least once a month.)

[ElectofGod]

Originally Posted by searching_questioner

What do you get more guidance and inspiration from - conference talks or the Book of Mormon?

I would like to add to what Vort said. Since the church site (lds.org) is down for a moment I have to quote from a website to get the excerpts of the talk in general conference. The link to the talk is on this website. “The Whole Church is Under Condemnation”: The Talk that Changed the Church | Mormon Matters

President Benson said:

Unless we read the Book of Mormon and give heed to its teachings, the Lord has stated in section 84 of the Doctrine and Covenants that the whole Church is under condemnation: “And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.” (D&C 84:56.) The Lord continues: “And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written.” (D&C 84:57.)

Now we not only need to say more about the Book of Mormon, but we need to do more with it. Why? The Lord answers: “That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion.” (D&C 84:58.) We have felt that scourge and judgment!

The Prophet Joseph said that “the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than any other book.” (Book of Mormon, Introduction.) The Book of Mormon has not been, nor is it yet, the center of our personal study, family teaching, preaching, and missionary work. Of this we must repent.

This is the consequences of not reading the book. This is why he attempted to increase the awareness of the BOM. He did help but no prophet has stated we are still not under condemnation for not reading it like we should.

I am posting this link for me to watch later :) Its oak on the same subject apparently.

Edited April 29, 2013 by ElectofGod

[mikbone]

“I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” (History of the Church, 4:461.)

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2011/10/the-book-of-mormon-keystone-of-our-religion?lang=eng

The Keystone of Our Religion - Ensign Jan. 2004 - ensign

Edited April 29, 2013 by mikbone

[mikbone]

I know that Joseph Smith, who acknowledged that he wasn’t perfect, was nevertheless the chosen instrument in God’s hand to restore the everlasting gospel to the earth. I also know that in doing so—particularly through translating the Book of Mormon—he has taught me more of God’s love, of Christ’s divinity, and of priesthood power than any other prophet of whom I have ever read, known, or heard in a lifetime of seeking.

Lord, I Believe - general-conference - Jeffery R. Holland

Based on the above quote. Which part of the Book of Mormon would Jeffery R. Holland want to replace with his own talks???

[Drpepper]

Which apostle is going to cut someone's head off and run away with his scriptures. You can't beat some of the stories in the BOM

[searching_questioner]

I'm too lazy to do this, but it would be really interesting to go back through a whole bunch of general conferences to see if there has been any change in the ratio between (1) the number of talks that quote from, or refer to, Book of Mormon scriptures, and (2) the number talks that quote from, or refer to, talks by other General Authorities. I suspect that speakers at General Conference are likely to use whatever source they feel is most useful and best illustrates the concept they are teaching.

Edited April 30, 2013 by searching_questioner
added the final sentence

[searching_questioner]

“I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” (History of the Church, 4:461.)

The above statement was once true. It might still be true. It might not be true forever. The Book of Mormon is (was?) the most correct book on earth only until a more correct book comes along - which may well have happened since Joseph Smith said this, or might soon happen if the church were to put together a compilation of latter-day sermons and teachings. Its a possibility that we can't rule out.

[Praetorian_Brow]

Sometimes the act of reading or writing is more important than the end result. Much the same can be said of prayer.

New or old, the intent of the messages still apply, as we think as they do, despite our cultural and language differences. I doubt speakers of yonder years would have been surprised that contemporary speakers warn against lust and addictive behaviours.

[Vort]

“I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” (History of the Church, 4:461.)

The above statement was once true. It might still be true. It might not be true forever. The Book of Mormon is (was?) the most correct book on earth only until a more correct book comes along - which may well have happened since Joseph Smith said this, or might soon happen if the church were to put together a compilation of latter-day sermons and teachings. Its a possibility that we can't rule out.

Do you see the problem, "searching_questioner"? You are searching and questioning, but you already have your predetermined answer in mind. You do not (apparently) care that much of what you say is flat-out wrong, such as that the Book of Mormon was written for a culture and people two thousand years ago. You are looking for reasons to reject what you have been taught.

When you really desire to know more and are willing to listen, ask again, and you will hear answers that will help you. Until then, enjoy your echo chamber.

[applepansy]

This thread has saddened me this morning and I can't help but wonder what Elder Holland would think of the idea that we replace precious chapters/books of the Book of Mormon with any of his Conference talks. He has quoted Joseph Smith in saying the Book of Mormon is the most correct book on Earth. He has quoted Pres. Benson who said we would get closer to God only through reading the Book of Mormon and applying the principles we find there. (not verbatim quotes. typing from memory)

Searching_Questioner, I agree with Vort. Somehow I don't think you're looking for answers but for someone to agree with you.

[applepansy]

Another important thought and I can't remember who said it.

If we don't study History and we are destined to repeat the mistakes of the past.

I think the reason I thought of this is because all I've learned from studying Alma, commonly called the war chapters. I haven't learned about going to war but I've learned how to stay close to my Heavenly Father when faced with adversity.

[pam]

This thread has saddened me this morning and I can't help but wonder what Elder Holland would think of the idea that we replace precious chapters/books of the Book of Mormon with any of his Conference talks. He has quoted Joseph Smith in saying the Book of Mormon is the most correct book on Earth. He has quoted Pres. Benson who said we would get closer to God only through reading the Book of Mormon and applying the principles we find there. (not verbatim quotes. typing from memory)

Searching_Questioner, I agree with Vort. Somehow I don't think you're looking for answers but for someone to agree with you.

Was it not also Elder Holland who just 3-4 years ago gave the most powerful and touching talk about the Book of Mormon? I do think he would have a really difficult time with any idea to replace the Book of Mormon with any of his talks.

In case you have forgotten it or have not read or heard it, here is a link:

Safety for the Soul - general-conference

Edited April 30, 2013 by pam

[pam]

Its a possibility that we can't rule out.

It's a possibility that perhaps YOU can rule out but please don't add me to the collective we.

[Dravin]

I must say I have absolutely no worry that the Church is going to make a compilation of addresses and sermons and declare it more correct than the Book of Mormon.