LDS scout troop marches in gay pride parade in SLC?

[Suzie]

They were reprimanded. At least the ones in SLC. I don't know about the others. But that isn't the issue in what you said. You made it very clear in your statement the only reason this is an issue is because it was a gay issue.

Reprimanded right, not dismissed.

Correct, it is and I was referring specifically about this forum discussion NOT about how other cases were handled.

[Guest]

Well I can't say you've changed my mind, but you've taught me about how the other side of it thinks.

[Suzie]

Well I can't say you've changed my mind, but you've taught me about how the other side of it thinks.

Thanks, same here. :)

[skippy740]

Let's be clear: As a leader, you are required to go through TRAINING. There is a 'trained' patch that leaders wear to show that they are trained.

Part of that training is knowing when you can and cannot wear your uniform. This scoutmaster was told.

In addition, I think it's up to the chartering organization of the particular troop to determine consequences. Since it is an LDS troop, it would be up to the Bishop &/or bishopric member (Chartering representative) to determine.

It is my opinion that participating in such a parade which is a questionable environment, let alone the message being given to youth... should have consequences.

[carlimac]

Where's the barf button?

Edited June 4, 2013 by carlimac
removed the pics that made me want to barf

[carlimac]

Not true actually. There was actually leaders that were reprimanded in Salt Lake City a few years ago because their scouts marched in a parade in uniform that had something to do with immigration policy. It was a non-sanctioned event.

I remember another troop getting into trouble, I believe it was in Illinois, some time back for wearing uniforms at some political rally.

So it's NOT just about gays. It's about wearing uniforms at a non-sanctioned event.

Some scouts got in trouble for wearing their uniforms when greeting Mitt Romney at the airport when he came to Utah last year.

[carlimac]

Wow. I haven't seen an issue this divisive in a while. My Catholic neighbor's facebook arguments with other Catholics are looking similar to this thread.

From what I could see, three people figure the Scoutmaster should be reprimanded and removed. Is there anyone else who wants to chime in on what should happen to him?

The BSA national organization, I believe, has stated they will take no action - leaving it up to the local leadership. Is this appropriate?

I would like to know how the Catholics are reacting to LDS support of this new policy. I've read on some evangelical sight that Mormons are turning against God over this. What are your Catholic friends saying about us?

[Just_A_Guy]

People keep thinking we are jumping for joy to be out, but it's not that, we just get very tired of having to watch every little thing we say. I know you think it's a joke but it does take a toll and we do end up lying quite a bit though most of you wouldn't see it til you stop and figure out how often certain topics come up.

Having to watch every little thing one says, is part of growing up. Sexuality has nothing to do with it--it's a matter of self-governance.

And when we meet for that lunch in 2025, we'll have to remember to discuss whether you still think being "out" but planning for a lifetime of celibacy, is such a relief from being completely in the closet. I don't think you will; and I'm quite certain your compatriots in the gay-rights movement won't.

So i'd like to hear what the LDS who have combined YM and scouting would do to make a young gay LDS man feel like he fits in and has a chance to progress? He's not sleeping with anyone, he's living the law of chastity but he's being told to either live in silence, while no such restriction exists for his peers, or really find no fellowship of peers within the church. So how do you allow this boy to feel like he has a place, and how does one help someone with a trial they can't admit to for fear of instantly being cast away from their peers?

As far as the BSA's policy: I think the shift is regrettable, for the concerns over "fraternity" I cited above; but probably necessary. I do, however, draw the line at overnight activities, at least not without knowing that there's going to be some very careful supervision. I see zero reason to give a gay teenaged boy at Scout camp more latitude than I'd give a straight teenaged boy at girls' camp. That's just the nature of the beast. You can emphasize sensitivity and Christlike love in general, and towards gays especially; and probably see some cultural improvements. But let's have no illusions: as long as the Church continues to teach chastity in general (and the sinfulness of gay sex in particular) gay LDS youth will not feel like they fit in completely.

That's why conservatives, like me, probably come off as somewhat harsh and unfeeling in responding to stories like yours. It isn't that we don't understand your concerns; it's just that we understand--even if you don't yet--that those concerns will never be satisfied. Knowing that your "solutions" won't solve the problem, we see little reason to exhaust ourselves trying to hit a moving target.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Just_A_Guy

[Soulsearcher]

Having to watch every little thing one says, is part of growing up. Sexuality has nothing to do with it--it's a matter of self-governance.

And when we meet for that lunch in 2025, we'll have to remember to discuss whether you still think being "out" but planning for a lifetime of celibacy, is such a relief from being completely in the closet. I don't think you will; and I'm quite certain your compatriots in the gay-rights movement won't.

As far as the BSA's policy: I think the shift is regrettable, for the concerns over "fraternity" I cited above; but probably necessary. I do, however, draw the line at overnight activities, at least not without knowing that there's going to be some very careful supervision. I see zero reason to give a gay teenaged boy at Scout camp more latitude than I'd give a straight teenaged boy at girls' camp. That's just the nature of the beast. You can emphasize sensitivity and Christlike love in general, and towards gays especially; and probably see some cultural improvements. But let's have no illusions: as long as the Church continues to teach chastity in general (and the sinfulness of gay sex in particular) gay LDS youth will not feel like they fit in completely.

That's why conservatives, like me, probably come off as somewhat harsh and unfeeling in responding to stories like yours. It isn't that we don't understand your concerns; it's just that we understand--even if you don't yet--that those concerns will never be satisfied. Knowing that your "solutions" won't solve the problem, we see little reason to exhaust ourselves trying to hit a moving target.

I can make a bit of a comment about the being out but celibate and feeling a huge relief. That was the boat i was in for the past few years. I came out, had the most chaste relationship most anyone ever heard of for a few months and then nothing til last month really. Wasn't really looking but felt a world better to have finally dealt with a lot of the things that were on my mind and bothering me. To this day and i think always my biggest regret is waiting so long. I wasted so much of my life in hiding and watching every little thing i said so nothing could let on to my "secret" that it makes a lot of my life feel wasted. Just being able to be relaxed and a bit happier even without relationships made a huge difference.

As for the over night things, we were always a huge group when camping, never less than 2 leaders and 5 or 6 boys to a cabin or teepee so i guess I'm not overly sure about need for real concern but i do get the worry, though think it's kinda silly with those numbers. I could see concern about showering and such being leaders never really had much control there and that's where bullying seemed rampant. Also i don't think any kid ever fits in, but it's nice to get a little bit closer, might not see it but every little bit does make life a bit easier, the leaps the church has made in the last few years has been huge and with the members that listen the youth have made progress and don't feel so alone.

I think we do understand that concerns will never be satisfied on either side, but as said one side pushes then the other side pushes and it keeps getting worse. both sides need to get better at listening and not saying "well yeah, but..." I think active listening went out the window a long time ago and it's all become reaction to the next move. Neither side is ever really going to be satisfied with the other, even if both sides compromise because there's always going to be something the other side wants that isn't going to be given. That being said neither side is going to stop trying because of the principal of the matter.

[pam]

Some scouts got in trouble for wearing their uniforms when greeting Mitt Romney at the airport when he came to Utah last year.

Oh yeah..I forgot about that one.

[NeuroTypical]

I would like to know how the Catholics are reacting to LDS support of this new policy. I've read on some evangelical sight that Mormons are turning against God over this. What are your Catholic friends saying about us?

My Catholic neighbor didn't think much of the LDS church before the issue, he considers our recent embracing of the recent BSA decision to be another example of why we're messed up.

Whereas when thinking of his own religion, he seems to be mainly ticked off at an organization of US Bishops. I don't quite get the levels of authority and groups of Catholicism.

[carlimac]

I can make a bit of a comment about the being out but celibate and feeling a huge relief. That was the boat i was in for the past few years. I came out, had the most chaste relationship most anyone ever heard of for a few months and then nothing til last month really. Wasn't really looking but felt a world better to have finally dealt with a lot of the things that were on my mind and bothering me. To this day and i think always my biggest regret is waiting so long. I wasted so much of my life in hiding and watching every little thing i said so nothing could let on to my "secret" that it makes a lot of my life feel wasted. Just being able to be relaxed and a bit happier even without relationships made a huge difference.

.

Just a question or an observation... ( a bit off topic but here we go again...) First of all, I really don't begrudge gay boys being a part of Boy Scouts. I think they deserve all they can learn from being a part of the organization. But I really wonder how well they would get along in certain circumstances. If you say that they should be able to be open and talk about their crushes or whatever without getting kicked out of scouts, do you really think that's a wise thing for them to talk about? Unless there is another gay kid for them to talk to I doubt straight boys in scouts would want to hear about it. For straight teenage boys, I would think a gay kid talking about his crush on another boy would strike many as a pretty gross thing...kind of like a straight kid having a crush on a girl with bad body odor or rotten teeth. I don't say that to be disrespectful, but the way things are just naturally is that straights listening to gay talk might have a visceral, automatic " yuck" reaction ( just as some boys would have the same reaction to a straight kid's crush on an undesirable girl). I don't think most teen age boys, especially young ones are going to have the maturity they need to allow that kind of conversation to go on without some teasing or belittling of the gay kid. (or the straight kid)

I know it doesn't seem fair, and perhaps the gay kid shouldn't have to listen to straight boys talking about their crushes on girls. I don't know the answer to this problem except to totally eliminate this kind of conversation in scouts. It shouldn't be a part of scouts but as you have indicated, is that a realistic expectation?

Play that scenario out in your mind and tell us what you think the reaction of the straight scouts should or would be to a gay boy talking about some other boy he thinks is "hot" especially if he's the only gay kid in the troop. Perhaps it's wiser/safer for him to just keep his mouth shut (keep it hidden) till he's in company that would appreciate it.

Just my two pennies worth.

Edited June 4, 2013 by carlimac

[pam]

I'm closing this thread. It has just turned into another gay/BSA subject which we have had numerous threads on.