Do your best and God will do the rest

[Torn]

This may seem like the wrong forum, but what exactly does that mean?

Do your best and God will do the rest.

Spouse A says this means for them: Pray, study the scriptures, attend all your meetings, attend the temple, serve diligently in your calling, pay your tithing, obey the word of wisdom. Follow ALL the commandments and strive to do your very best at it. When you have done all that you can do, God will do the rest.

Spouse B says this means for them: Be a good person. The rest is just fluff. God doesn't want to meddle in our lives, he just wants us to return to live with him and thus, why would he give us commandments to follow that might keep us from doing that?

So what does it mean? And I know I don't have the only marriage where one spouse does not agree with the other when it comes to religion - how do you make it work?

[pam]

I go with the spouse A approach. If we do everything we can, follow all that God asks, he will then help to make our burdens lighter. Basically a "God helps those who help themselves."

[Swiper]

I go with spouse B approach. I find it difficult to believe that God keep tabs on how devout we have been.

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

[Dravin]

I think it means that it is by grace we are saved, after all we can do.

Spouse B says this means for them: Be a good person. The rest is just fluff. God doesn't want to meddle in our lives, he just wants us to return to live with him and thus, why would he give us commandments to follow that might keep us from doing that?

Spouse B has a rather fundamental flaw in their thinking. God does not give us commandments that keep us from returning to live with him. Either line of thinking, A or B, can be brought to dangerous conclusions. Taking A too far can leave one prone to feeling one must be perfect, that there is no room for grace in our lives. Taking B too far can leave one prone to being lackadaisical about keeping commandments and striving towards improving. The truth of it is in the middle, the Gospel is about becoming a celestial person and the commandments are given to facilitate that.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Dravin

[Backroads]

I go with spouse B approach. I find it difficult to believe that God keep tabs on how devout we have been.

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

While I do think some of the thoughts of Spouse B have merit, I don't fully agree.

Let's not make the mistake of thinking that Spouse A is all about following the letter of the law without the Spirit. No, I don't think God is keeping tabs on how devout we've been, but by following the commandments as they have been set up we will be best prepared to return to God. Our devoutness points are neither here nor there.

[Praetorian_Brow]

Its always bothered me that people assume that if they do their best, someone will recognize their effort and top of their effort for the intention of making them more than they are. The blessings, or rewards ( I loathe those concepts) are not so much granted but the act of doing the positive activity is the reward, more so than a magical grant of +5 to strength because they found the shiny bauble.

Spouse A, seems to be female and Spouse B, seems to be male. From what I have gathered, the majority of women who profess to have faith, believe that their marriage will be more fulfilling if they do their best and if there is any problem, God will fill the gap in whatever ails the marriage, therefore making a better marriage. Men, or at least the ones I know, believe that God is outside the marriage, but offering sound advice when requested. The women believe that they must do everything under their idea of God in order to have a better relationship, whereas the men believe that they must lead as God has advised.

The intention is that both parties becoming more united over time, as they share their divine principles, but I think that a lot of people stop listening to each other and presume that their actions are the right ones and the other party is in the wrong. Both perspectives have good intentions, but forget the real reason for being together and that is work on problems TOGETHER, even if there are differing opinions.

Then again, what do I know, my father was a bishop and my mother was a convert and now are divorced. Mom is a convert and Dad a return missionary. Mom always believed God would make up the difference but rarely communicated effectively with my father. My father believed that his leadership style was always just and rarely communicated effectively with my mother. My Mom is single and the most humble lady that I know and my father married his Catholic ex-girlfriend and he is far happier.

Both failed in their intentions and forget the purpose of their relationship, despite having seven kids that were raised in the gospel. There is no right or wrong in a marriage and the real tragedy begins when one party, believes that the other person is expendable.

[EarlJibbs]

Spouse B's opinion that God doesnt want to meddle gives the impression that rules from God are meddling. The commandments are a guide map back to him, with some key stops along the way. Like Baptism...

Spouse A has got it. Dravin hit it, God doing the rest is Grace.

[Anddenex]

the real tragedy begins when one party, believes that the other person is expendable.

Definitely words of wisdom.

[Torn]

The truth of it is in the middle, the Gospel is about becoming a celestial person and the commandments are given to facilitate that.

How do you find that middle - it's what I want/NEED to do so desperately - when neither spouse is willing to bend on their beliefs? How do you "agree to disagree" so to speak, on this matter?

[Dravin]

How do you find that middle - it's what I want/NEED to do so desperately - when neither spouse is willing to bend on their beliefs? How do you "agree to disagree" so to speak, on this matter?

Is this a question of philosophy or practicality? It's one thing to discuss the balance point between grace and obedience, it's another thing to discuss if you are going to pay tithing, or hold family home evening, or go to church, or various other things.

[pam]

I find it difficult to believe that God keep tabs on how devout we have been.

Personally I tend to disagree with this. We will be judged according to our works and by His grace. When we stand for judgement, I think all that we have done and how well we have done it will be taken into consideration. In that respect, God basically is keeping tabs on us.

[Praetorian_Brow]

The middle is adapting your position to the compromise that is made.

I gather both have talked of their thoughts or feelings and arrived at an impasse. I hope that one did not make the mistake of believing their feelings trumped the situation, which seems to happen quite often. I also hope that one did not just state their thoughts on the matter. In other words, women make the mistake of stating that their feelings are final and men make the mistake of stating their thoughts and expecting the woman to see beyond what he thought he said.

Her: I feel that family home evening should be read from the manual.

Him: We don't need the manual to have family home evening.

Her translation of his words: Oh gosh, he doesn't believe in the scriptures.

His translation of her words: Great, feelings again.

Her: I can't believe you just said that!

Him: What? I just said we don't need the manual to have family evening.

Anyway, the compromise that they should arrive at is that the manual is not necessary for family home evening but it has encouraging information in that that can be useful for holding the event and encourages family interaction.

[Anddenex]

Her: I feel that family home evening should be read from the manual.

Him: We don't need the manual to have family home evening.

Her translation of his words: Oh gosh, he doesn't believe in the scriptures.

His translation of her words: Great, feelings again.

Her: I can't believe you just said that!

Him: What? I just said we don't need the manual to have family evening.

This reminds me of a conversation I overheard regarding Scout budgets between two males:

x: Awards are important to the Scouts

y: Scouts really needs to be kept to a budget regarding awards. These awards are expensive.

x: What? You just said Scouts shouldn't be offered an award if they earn it.

y: No. I said Scouts should keep to a budget like any other auxiliary, and once the budget has been spent the children's parents, if they want the award can purchase the awards themselves. They still earn the reward.

x: Yep, you just said the children shouldn't receive an award if they earn the merit badge.

y: No.

[justme39]

I think that I might have something to add to this, seeing as how I'm the "B" in her not so hypothetical example.

I am not a perfect saint. I do not have a perfect testimony. I even struggle with faith. I am judgmental and week. Sometimes I even screw up the small stuff. I don't love going to church...it is hard for me because I feel like I don't fit in. I based way too much of my testimony on the testimony of my wife. I find it hard to forgive others. I fear that if the church is true, that I have already been weighed and measured and been found wanting.

I do, however try to have faith. I try to be a good man. I am honest to the point that it is detrimental to me professionally. I won't lie to fit in. I won't pretend to be something that I am not. I have been absolutely loyal to my wife and family for 22 years. I love my family above all else. I do my best. I want to be better. I admire the "example A" people, including my wife for their diligence.

One of the posts here talked about finding a middle ground. I think that that idea is rubbish. I don't think either of us should have to change our point of view just to make the other drive the bus. I think we need to love each other and accept that we are not exactly alike in perspective or in action. I don't think that all righteousness looks exactly the same. I think that we all need to rely on the atonement after being as good as we can.

I believe that I have as much right as any other person to have a personal relationship with God based on who I believe him to be based on my own understanding and the capacity that he bestowed upon me. I am a father to my children and I know how I feel about them. I believe that this is as close to knowing how The Lord feels about us as I can get in my carnal and fallen state. I know he loves us and wants us to succeed, as I do my own kids.

I have NEVER told my wife that she is wrong for seeing things from her perspective, but I am living a life of being made to feel that I am wrong for having my own unique perspective. I feel badly that she looks at me and sees someone who is going to hell and that my hard work and honest efforts mean very little to her unless I can voice a testimony that sounds like others that of "good Mormons". It breaks my heart that rather than discussing things with me, she goes to forums like this and to a message board of people who agree with her to get affirmation of the fact that she is obviously righteous and that I am somehow evil and misled.

I hope that the gospel is true. I am trying to have faith but it is difficult. I am sorry to my spouse for letting her down. I wish that I could be what she wants, I honestly do,but the Lord made me who I am. I have my unique skills and challenges just like everyone else. I am far from perfect, but my desire to be better and to know God is real and I am trying, so for now I believe that God wants me to do my best.

[mnn727]

I think its somewhere in between A and B, we do what we humanly can, to the best of our ability (if we're going to do it, then do it well). That doesn't mean we miss out on sleep or skip the kids soccer practice just to do what we think we should. I believe God understands our life and I also believe recreation and rest is a vital component to life.

Please see the talk Good Better Best by Dallin H Oaks

[slamjet]

My .02, because I can...

Both are incorrect.

Christ has already paid the price. His atonement opens the door for not only to be able to be forgiven, but it has already paid the price of sin so in reality, we're not here to rid ourselves of sin (that already has been done), we're here to learn to become obedient to the commandments of God and to learn to listen to and act on His spiritual promptings. In short, to put our will on the alter of God so that we can more fully do His will.

But the atonement also opens up the way for God to interact with us. It answers the cry's of justice so that God, who cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance, can still be connected to us imperfect beings. So that when we pray, it goes directly to God's ears and he can be involved in our lives. With out the atonement, this could not be the case. Yes, we need to read and study our scriptures, always be prayerful and attend and be active in church, but these are the ways we open ourselves up spiritually so that we can feel and hear the movements of the Spirit of God.

In my experience, God is a whole lot more involved and meddling in our lives than we realize. The question is will we accept his involvement? His involvement does not negate our freedom to choose His guidance, or the other person's. So forget about us being put on this earth and told to "survive" because that is just not true. Forget about the "we do our best and God will do the rest" because he already has done it all. And in the context of marriage, well, it's not a 50%/50% between husband and wife, it's 100%/100%. So why would it be any different with God? He will put forth 100% to us if we put forth 100% of what we are capable of to him. And that capability is different for each person and will not be reached in this life.

So long as we have our hearts and minds pointed towards God and do our best to be obedient and to find out and do His will, then we will make it. The price has been paid. The only question is to what degree are we willing to grab hold of the Atonement, make it personal and receive more of what God is so easily, ready, readily and in copious amounts waiting to give to us?

[mordorbund]

This may seem like the wrong forum, but what exactly does that mean?

Do your best and God will do the rest.

Spouse A says this means for them: Pray, study the scriptures, attend all your meetings, attend the temple, serve diligently in your calling, pay your tithing, obey the word of wisdom. Follow ALL the commandments and strive to do your very best at it. When you have done all that you can do, God will do the rest.

Spouse B says this means for them: Be a good person. The rest is just fluff. God doesn't want to meddle in our lives, he just wants us to return to live with him and thus, why would he give us commandments to follow that might keep us from doing that?

So what does it mean? And I know I don't have the only marriage where one spouse does not agree with the other when it comes to religion - how do you make it work?

How many spouses do you have?

[Finrock]

Good afternoon justme39. I hope you are having a good day! Welcome to the forum. :)

I hope that the gospel is true. I am trying to have faith but it is difficult. I am sorry to my spouse for letting her down. I wish that I could be what she wants, I honestly do,but the Lord made me who I am. I have my unique skills and challenges just like everyone else. I am far from perfect, but my desire to be better and to know God is real and I am trying, so for now I believe that God wants me to do my best.

Start where you stand. Take the faith you have now and know what it is. After you know what you believe, be true to this faith completely. For instance, if you believe in God at all, pray to Him. If you believe in the scriptures at all, read them. If you just have a desire to believe, start working that desire up until you have sufficient faith to act.

If you have complete integrity to the faith that you have now, then you will receive more and will be blameless; unless you reject the more that is given.

Last General Conference Elder Holland spoke on faith and belief and said the following:

"The size of your faith or the degree of your knowledge is not the issue—it is the integrity you demonstrate toward the faith you do have and the truth you already know."

I invite you to read the whole talk: Lord, I Believe

Sincerely,

Finrock

[Finrock]

Good Afternoon Swiper. I hope you are doing well! :)

I go with spouse B approach. I find it difficult to believe that God keep tabs on how devout we have been.

Jesus taught this in the Book of Mormon:

25 For behold, out of the books which have been written, and which shall be written, shall this people be judged, for by them shall their works be known unto men.

26 And behold, all things are written by the Father; therefore out of the books which shall be written shall the world be judged.

27 And know ye that ye shall be judges of this people, according to the judgment which I shall give unto you, which shall be just. Therefore, what manner of men ought ye to be? Verily I say unto you, even as I am. (Emphasis added)

Regards,

Finrock