Frustrated with church

[beefche]

Talking about tithing or such things is fine, but those are secondary things which exist to point us towards Christ and we should never loose sight of that.

Going to church and never talking about Christ (other than in passing) is like going to some kid's birthday party, and spending the entire time just talking about doing the dishes: you missed the entire point of why you're there!

Why are you assuming others are losing sight of that? Do you know their thoughts? Do you listen to the Spirit as He whispers to them?

Just because I don't say the name Jesus with each sentence or paragraph I speak doesn't mean that my words aren't aimed at preaching, prophesying or teaching of Christ.

If we believe that paying tithing enables us to be closer to Christ (and that is the point of ALL the principles taught), then why do we have to say His name in order for one to know we are preaching of Him?

Honestly, I just don't understand this concept. Being at church, knowing that He wants me there, no matter how imperfect the services may or may not be, helps me to be closer to Christ. I made covenants with Him to do as He commands and for me, personally, that means go to church and accept others no matter where they are on the path to Him. I find Him whenever I'm at church--whether someone says His name or not. He is there, and I make an effort to see Him there each week.

[Mikedavis]

We believe that paying tithing enables us to be closer to Christ

What??? It is right to tithe, but you can't buy yourself closer to Christ. Personaly, I find this whole "fire insurance" concept of tithing being preached in church is so misleading as is the "I can't afford not to tithe" comments. Tithing is mentioned in the bible in several places and it is somthing we should do, but nowhere is it said that paying tyhing "enables us to be closer to Christ". In the same way nowhere in the bible does it say in order be with Christ and heavenly farther you have to do anything more than accept Christ into your life. When Christ was on the cross he said to the man next to him. "today you will join me in the kingdom of heaven". He didn't say "sorry dude you haven't paid your tithing or completed XYZ so it's off to some middle heaven for you mate." This is where I find our church differs from the teachings of Christ.

One last point. Yes tyhing was/is a commandment of God, but was "thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife" also a commandment? Just asking.

[pam]

Tithing is mentioned in the bible in several places and it is somthing we should do, but nowhere is it said that paying tyhing "enables us to be closer to Christ".

Per lds.org: As with members of many other faiths, Latter-day Saints believe that the payment of tithing shows gratitude to God and brings both spiritual and temporal blessings.

So showing gratitude to God does not enable us to be closer to Him?

[Mikedavis]

Per lds.org: As with members of many other faiths, Latter-day Saints believe that the payment of tithing shows gratitude to God and brings both spiritual and temporal blessings.

So showing gratitude to God does not enable us to be closer to Him?

Hmm. I stand corrected and withdraw my hasty remark. Sorry.

[classylady]

Teachers and the speakers in Sacrament meeting are just regular "folks" who have been asked to give either lessons or a talk. Most of the speakers I know are usually scared to death to get up and give a talk in front of an audience. Most of the teachers I know feel inadequate in giving a lesson. Speakers are usually given a topic to speak on. Then they try and research and do the best they can. Usually, they are shaking in their shoes as they get up to speak. I appreciate that they accepted the assignment, though most of them are frightened in front of an audience.

Because I have lived in my ward for many years I know the history of many of the good people who give talks. I know Brother --- was just rebaptized after being excommunicated, and he is stumbling all over his words as he's talking. He is so grateful to be back in full membership, but he's scared. I know that the youth speaker is struggling with her friends and testimony, but is still willing to give her talk. I know that Sister --- is struggling in her marriage, and trying to do the best she can. I know that Brother --- only has an 8th grade education and doesn't read well. I can go on and on about the good people in my ward. None of them particularly want or like giving talks. But, I find that I can learn from their experiences. I can feel the Spirit as they talk. Even someone who drones on and on, I can still feel gratitude that it's not me up there, and feel love for them. I can soak in the atmosphere of being in church attending with my friends and neighbors, all of us with our own specific trials and struggles. I love them. I know our Savior loves them.

This is the Lord's church. This is the way Sacrament Meeting and the other classes have been set up. We can learn and uplift one another, even in our weaknesses.

With you not being in any one area long enough to get to know your fellow ward members, maybe if you can try to see people as Christ sees them--imperfect but still precious, this will help you to be a little more patient and understanding.

Also, keep in mind, humans need repetition. Yes, the lessons are things we have been taught before, and we've had the same lesson many times. But, I look at it as a good reminder that this is what I need to do to improve myself. I need the reminders to continue on the path the Lord wants me to go. For some reason, if we're not continually reminded, we seem to start taking the wrong path. I'm grateful for the repetition, because I need it.

[pam]

Love love love your comments classylady.

[Dark_Jedi]

Wow, that ward didn't have sacrament? I am quite surprised by that. Since the sacrament is the real reason we have SACRAMENT meeting and the sacrament is rich of the atonement, it is so very surprising that there was no sacrament served that day.

And I'm confused....should we just start saying the word Jesus so we can be Christians? I thought that to be a Christian one has to follow the principles taught by Jesus. Talks on principles of the Gospel don't count? Encouragement to live as Christ lived (even without saying His name) doesn't qualify us as Christians?

Well excuse me all to pieces. yes, the ward had sacrament and yes I know that it's Sacrament Meeting and the real purpose of being there is the sacrament. You clearly missed the point, by choice or otherwise.

Let me give you another example. A sacrament meeting, two talks about the priesthood and church organization. A lovely older sister gave a beautiful talk about the priesthood, especially priesthood blessings, with several uplifting stories. The brother that followed spoke about the organization of the church and its relationship to the priesthood. He used scripture from the Bible and the Book of Mormon showing how Jesus exercised the priesthood and organized the church. He also used many other scriptures relating to the organization of the church. While Christ was not the subject of focus of his talk, he made sure he emphasized Christ as central tot he theme. The sister did not mention the Savior except in the obligatory "in the name of...." She could have, though - she could have pointed out Christ's healing of the sick.

So, no we don't need to be like some evangelicals who seem to need to end every other sentence with "praise be" but more direct reference to Jesus Christ in relation to those gospel principles would go a long way in others recognizing that we are Christian.

[beefche]

What??? It is right to tithe, but you can't buy yourself closer to Christ. Personaly, I find this whole "fire insurance" concept of tithing being preached in church is so misleading as is the "I can't afford not to tithe" comments. Tithing is mentioned in the bible in several places and it is somthing we should do, but nowhere is it said that paying tyhing "enables us to be closer to Christ". In the same way nowhere in the bible does it say in order be with Christ and heavenly farther you have to do anything more than accept Christ into your life. When Christ was on the cross he said to the man next to him. "today you will join me in the kingdom of heaven". He didn't say "sorry dude you haven't paid your tithing or completed XYZ so it's off to some middle heaven for you mate." This is where I find our church differs from the teachings of Christ.

One last point. Yes tyhing was/is a commandment of God, but was "thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife" also a commandment? Just asking.

Paying tithing is a form of obedience and sacrifice, principles taught to us to draw us closer to God.

[beefche]

I can give you just as many examples of talks in sacrament that certainly didn't uplift me. But as has been said, we do not hire professionals to teach and give talks. We don't know the thoughts, fears, or other things that influence people when giving lessons or talks.

I know of one lady that could only stand and cry when trying to talk. Her fears overcame her. But, she tried her best--she accepted the challenge and prepared for it...just couldn't get past her fears. Should I just lambast her for not mentioning Christ while crying so I can get the spiritual lift I need? Or should I show her compassion and patience as she worked through her own thoughts and feelings enough to manage a single sentence? Which reaction is a better example of drawing me closer to Christ?

[Misshalfway]

Well excuse me all to pieces. The sister did not mention the Savior except in the obligatory "in the name of...." She could have, though - she could have pointed out Christ's healing of the sick.

So, no we don't need to be like some evangelicals who seem to need to end every other sentence with "praise be" but more direct reference to Jesus Christ in relation to those gospel principles would go a long way in others recognizing that we are Christian.

Hm. I guess if my mission were to prove to the rest of the world that I was "christian", whatever that word means, then I might go out of my way to say Jesus phrases overtly. But that's not my mission, nor do I expect the speakers at church to take up the cause either.

My goal when I speak in church is to hopefully help someone feel the spirit of God so that it communicates with them in some way. Perhaps its pricks their conscience or comforts or offers new ways of seeing something. Perhaps it just makes them laugh a bit and accept themselves a little more. And I'm going to do that imperfectly every single time. God uses the weak things of the world. Happy news! I'm qualified!

And I appreciate that sometimes we lose our way, like those in the BofM who got so caught up in the Law of Moses that they needed several reminders to look towards Christ. But I'm not sure legislating the language of sacrament meeting talks is going to help things. Wouldn't that just be another form of missing the mark?

[Leah]

Teachers and the speakers in Sacrament meeting are just regular "folks" who have been asked to give either lessons or a talk. Most of the speakers I know are usually scared to death to get up and give a talk in front of an audience. Most of the teachers I know feel inadequate in giving a lesson. Speakers are usually given a topic to speak on. Then they try and research and do the best they can. Usually, they are shaking in their shoes as they get up to speak. I appreciate that they accepted the assignment, though most of them are frightened in front of an audience.

Because I have lived in my ward for many years I know the history of many of the good people who give talks. I know Brother --- was just rebaptized after being excommunicated, and he is stumbling all over his words as he's talking. He is so grateful to be back in full membership, but he's scared. I know that the youth speaker is struggling with her friends and testimony, but is still willing to give her talk. I know that Sister --- is struggling in her marriage, and trying to do the best she can. I know that Brother --- only has an 8th grade education and doesn't read well. I can go on and on about the good people in my ward. None of them particularly want or like giving talks. But, I find that I can learn from their experiences. I can feel the Spirit as they talk. Even someone who drones on and on, I can still feel gratitude that it's not me up there, and feel love for them. I can soak in the atmosphere of being in church attending with my friends and neighbors, all of us with our own specific trials and struggles. I love them. I know our Savior loves them.

This is the Lord's church. This is the way Sacrament Meeting and the other classes have been set up. We can learn and uplift one another, even in our weaknesses.

With you not being in any one area long enough to get to know your fellow ward members, maybe if you can try to see people as Christ sees them--imperfect but still precious, this will help you to be a little more patient and understanding.

Also, keep in mind, humans need repetition. Yes, the lessons are things we have been taught before, and we've had the same lesson many times. But, I look at it as a good reminder that this is what I need to do to improve myself. I need the reminders to continue on the path the Lord wants me to go. For some reason, if we're not continually reminded, we seem to start taking the wrong path. I'm grateful for the repetition, because I need it.

I really appreciate your words and thank you for taking the time to write this post.

I have been very dismayed by the attitudes displayed in this thread. The disdain for the members of the church and the talks they give. How the talks just aren't good enough. Really? Like all of the critics are super-amazing, mesmering speakers? And apparently a lot of people have ESP because they know whether or not a speaker is being sincere. Amazing powers those are, being able to know a person's heart and intent better than they themselves know. Or better than Heavenly Father knows.

With attitudes like that, it's no wonder you don't feel the Spirit when listening to talks. You,re drowning out whatever the Spirit is trying to whisper to you with the loudness of your judgements and arrogance. You can't hear the sincere words of your fellow members over your own loud murmerings of how you deserve "better".

I'm glad I don't have to give a talk in front of some of you. It would never be good enough and you'd be too busy critiquing to hear any message Heavenly Father had for you.

You would miss out on talks like one given last week in our ward. A brother in our ward has ALS. It has affected his speech. Some people, upon first hearing him speak, assume he is mentally challenged, and immediately disengage and tune out. They would have missed out on one of the most amazing talks they would have had the privilege of ever hearing.

As with any circumstance in life, if you can't feel the Spirit in sacrament meeting, it's not due to the actions of others, but what's in your own heart.

[mnn727]

So I did a word count this afternoon during Sacrament meeting (we meet at 1PM)

Just during Sacrament, NOT including prayers and songs, the following were said 43 times: Savior, Lord, Jesus and/or Christ, God, Holy Spirit, Spirit, He/Him where it applied to the Savior -- 43 times!

When you add hymn's into it you add another 33 times for a total of 76 times members of the Godhead were mentioned JUST during Sacrament meeting.

I'm really not sure what Church some of you go to but He sure is preached in mine.

I challenge any of you that say we don't bring up Christ enough to do a word count yourself next Sunday.

[bytebear]

Don't forget that regardless of the content, every prayer (including ordinances), lesson and Sacrament Meeting talk is (or should be) done in the name of Jesus Christ.

[skippy740]

All I can say is that criticism is always met with opportunities (read: callings).

I think I'm a decent teacher, instructor and speaker. Most talks are filled with 'um', 'uh', 'you know', 'like', etc. It drives me nuts and its distracting.

I know I should be better and try to listen to the intention of the message. But sometimes, it's more fun to just write little dashes and count how many times they use these poor phrases that show their embarrassment or lack of public speaking skills.

When I'm counting LESS of these, the speaker seems to be more engaged in the topic and its easier to look up at them and pay more attention.

Of course, taking notes is a more mature way to pass the time... but I don't always take the 'higher road'.

[Jane_Doe]

Today at church, we had a youth speaker (13?) whom had very diligently prepared a fantastic written talk about his favorite teaching of Christ (the prodigal son). He was obviously very intimidated to be up on the stand, looked at his paper 95% of the time, and blushed deep red because he could not pronounce "prodigal" properly. But he was there, speaking and surmounting his fears, and saying how much he loved his big brother (whom was departing on a mission).

I loved this young man's talk: he had obviously pored his soul into it and the meaning touched me. What I would love is if we (his ward collectively) could help nurture his sweet spirit. Obviously, the primary goal be that this young man's testimony grow stronger, but it would also be wonderful if we as a ward could teach him better how to communicate his testimony, that he can better share his light with the rest of the world when he leaves on his own mission (and the many years to come).

It is not our place to judge our fellow man, but we should help our fellow men in the areas they find difficult, including expressing their love of Christ. I think that would be very noble, and one that we often overlooked.

[pam]

It is not our place to judge our fellow man, but we should help our fellow men in the areas they find difficult, including expressing their love of Christ. I think that would be very noble, and one that we often overlooked.

Depends on how we go about "helping." My sister moved to a new state, new ward and was called to be the gospel doctrine teacher. She has taught this class before, has lots of experience in public speaking, served a mission. Yet she had someone come up to her after the class and told her she could have taught it better if she had done it differently. That really hurt her and she had diligently prepared.

[skippy740]

What I would love is if we (his ward collectively) could help nurture his sweet spirit. Obviously, the primary goal be that this young man's testimony grow stronger, but it would also be wonderful if we as a ward could teach him better how to communicate his testimony, that he can better share his light with the rest of the world when he leaves on his own mission (and the many years to come).

Every ward has different dynamics. Also, each young man should have multiple leaders that can (should) help foster this.

I'm the cubmaster & assistant webelos leader for our ward cub scout pack. In our Webelos den, we just completed the communicator activity pin... which included the requirement of giving a 3 minute talk on the subject of their choice.

My expectation was for them to attempt it and to keep them talking about their subject for 3 minutes. I didn't really attempt to critique their talk as much as I wanted the cub scouts to be attentive listeners. I felt it was more important for them to show respect for the person speaking, than it was to critique their individual talks. They knew they didn't feel really prepared. They also haven't had much practice giving talks. But at least they're getting started.

I'm their cub scout leader. It would be my place to give constructive criticism where appropriate (and I did when they weren't showing respect to the person speaking). It might be my ego... but I would say that it would be MY place to do the critiquing... instead of someone else.

But again, I'm involved and doing my calling, so I'd have a different perspective when it comes to the boys I'm leading.

I suppose I wouldn't offer any critiquing unless I was asked to give it otherwise.

The other problem... is that there aren't many others in the ward (most wards) who are decent public speakers themselves. So they do their best... which also happens to be the cub scout motto.

If I was to offer an unsolicited comment, I would probably remark on a positive aspect of their talk. Something like "I really liked it when you went into detail about ____. You seemed to REALLY know this and you had a natural confidence about it. You did great. Thank you."

Let's let everyone do their best and offer help when it is asked for. This will preserve feelings on a task that is (perceived to be) difficult.

[john doe]

What??? It is right to tithe, but you can't buy yourself closer to Christ. Personaly, I find this whole "fire insurance" concept of tithing being preached in church is so misleading as is the "I can't afford not to tithe" comments. Tithing is mentioned in the bible in several places and it is somthing we should do, but nowhere is it said that paying tyhing "enables us to be closer to Christ". In the same way nowhere in the bible does it say in order be with Christ and heavenly farther you have to do anything more than accept Christ into your life. When Christ was on the cross he said to the man next to him. "today you will join me in the kingdom of heaven". He didn't say "sorry dude you haven't paid your tithing or completed XYZ so it's off to some middle heaven for you mate." This is where I find our church differs from the teachings of Christ.

One last point. Yes tyhing was/is a commandment of God, but was "thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife" also a commandment? Just asking.

Obedience to the commandments, even the ones that say you should pay tithes and offerings, brings you closer to Christ. That's part of the deal with the whole covenants thing.

[pooter1]

Funny I was thinking about this yesterday at church.I came to the conclusion that it is so much more than just listening to talks on Sunday in fact that is a very small part of it. We have to LIVE the gospel everyday.Live what the gospel of Jesus Christ teaches us.If we live the gospel to the fullness then thats where you get the fullfillment you are looking for. Serving others and loving another,keeping the commandments.Thats where the real meat of the gospel is.At least to me it is.

[Misshalfway]

Funny I was thinking about this yesterday at church.I came to the conclusion that it is so much more than just listening to talks on Sunday in fact that is a very small part of it. We have to LIVE the gospel everyday.Live what the gospel of Jesus Christ teaches us.If we live the gospel to the fullness then thats where you get the fullfillment you are looking for. Serving others and loving another,keeping the commandments.Thats where the real meat of the gospel is.At least to me it is.

Amen. Maybe even an A-freakin-men.

I don't care what words you use. If you come into my life and love me and help me bare my burdens and help me see truth and build me up when I do dumb stuff and forgive me when I really blow it -- I'll know Christ. If you practice sacrifice and obedience and diligence and repentance. If you are honest and humble and real. The light will radiate out of you. You won't be able to stop it. You won't be able to hide it under a bushel! And you'll have so much love inside of you, that you won't see me as a leper the way the rest of the world does. What's more "christian" than that?

All the piety can float on down the river, if you ask me.

[beefche]

Hi all,

I believe in be honest and true, so be forewarned: this is a blunt and long post. I believe in Christ and resonate strongly with Mormon doctrine, ie I don’t have any testimony issues. However, I am increasingly frustrated with physically attending church activities. I can’t go every week, and when I do ditch work and family activities to attend… I leave the church building very frustrated. I do not attend church to have a social hour—I’m always moving and am demotivated to be ‘friends’ with someone I will never see again.

Rather, I come to God’s house to lean on the spirit, to hear His words. While I’m not interested in friendships, I enjoy listening to other people’s insights and sharing my own. But… speakers are… empty. They do not speak of with the spirit and they do not speak of Christ. Rather, they babble on (with horrendous public speaking skills) about where/when they were asked to speak, recount some random story, read off some General Conference talk, and they recite empty age-old platitudes devoid of any real heart. Frankly, I find their words un-studied, smiles fake, and hearts seem empty. It fills me with frustration, evolving over time anger to anger and bitterness. Why I am here, listening to this? Why did come here, when this does not bring me closer to God?

Majority of weeks the only way I can force myself to stay during sacrament is to completely ignore the speakers and just read my scriptures. But again, why did I bother to come if it was just to read my scriptures? I do that far better at home in front of computer screen (I’m a child of the digital age).

I’ve been dealing with these emotions for a while, trying to keep a positive attitude and moving forwards. They are building a temple in my home city—I’ve been looking so forward to the groundbreaking for months. Today was the long anticipated big day… and it was 56 minutes before they ever talked about Christ—at a dedication for the House of the Lord, by the Church of Jesus Christ!!! They… they so miss the entire point.

I’m struggling to express my frustrations/heart-break here. I don’t know what to do Why do I bother physically attending church? Why should I talk to anyone? I can’t change the world, I can only change myself, which is best done on private on my knees. Why… just why…?

I've been thinking about this all weekend.

I think each and every one of us has, at some point in time, felt very nearly the same emotions as you. I know I did--at least 2 times in my life. I questioned why continue to go to church? I'm not getting what I need from church, so why do I continue? One of those times, I felt shunned by people in my ward. I never lost my testimony, but, boy, the people in my ward sure tested my resolve.

What changed for me...was me. I had a crisis moment on my knees crying to God for what I felt like was unfair, not right, and downright wrong. Especially since the ward I was in at that time I felt shunned me and had some of the worst testimony meetings I've ever attended. Honestly, I have so many stories of that time. As I cried to God about this (not the first time), I felt an answer that was as much as a slap in the face as I think the Lord will give us. While I pondered that answer over the next few weeks, I realized that what was important for me to attend church was based on MY covenants that I made with God--and that has absolutely nothing to do with people who didn't like me, or people who felt a "thankyoumony" was more important than a testimony, or any other of the variety of reasons I didn't want to go to church.

The answer for me was the same one I had received years before under similar circumstances. So, now the Lord has twice told me the same thing--honor the covenants YOU make.

So, while I express that I feel Christ IS spoken alot at church, I hope this explains that I have felt the same as you. We are all on a different path to Christ. Now that I am older and hopefully, wiser, I see that more clearly than I did before. My struggles are not the same as others. I am aware of some of my failings and probably not aware of a lot more--just like everyone around us. I still struggle with church attendance on occasion. But, now I recognize that my struggle is due to more of my level of closeness to God rather than anyone else in the ward's closeness or lack thereof.

[dimbulbz]

I'm reminded of the adage, "Some of us are here to bless the lives of others, and some are here merely to try us" admittedly, I'm probably in the latter category. My older children have seemed to not fit in very well at church, and as a result, we have all struggled with people who may consider us a less than perfect LDS family. I hope some of you can take some of my difficultly obtained advice in the spirit it is offered.

Elder Cooke advised us in conference a few years back that Sacrament meeting was the most sacred meeting in the Church. I was a little taken back by that statement at first, because I thought that surely there were other meetings that were more important. But I started to think about it, ponder about it. It for reasons I really cant express here, Sacrament, and being with other saints on Sunday has become my absolute joy. I do admit that there have been times in my church life that I did not truly understand, and I felt the same way some of you feel right now. For some of us (they are in every congregation), it is quite honestly, a feeling of superiority - the people who attend church with you are dufus' or somehow beneath your attention, and a waste of your time. You must agree that such is not the attitude of a servant, but one of a superior - its a miserable place to be, and whats worse is, we tend to rub that attitude off on others. This is not intended to make anyone feel bad, after all, you wouldn't be posting here unless you recognize that something is amiss. Being intolerant or impatient with others is a character weakness, just like being a smoker- only less smelly, Some of us actually are better than others in keeping commandments, but that's not really what church is about - being smarter, more polished, more perfect. I've often wished out loud to my wife, after one of my children (or me) is put in our place by a seemingly good card carrying member, that there is a Mormon Church Lite, where some of us less perfect people can go and still be accepted by the Lord, like those who seem to hardly need a savior at all. But there is only one church, and if we feel at odds with the church, we should recognize that the church is not for the perfect, it is for those who want take advantage of the Saviors infinite love and forgiveness. If you come with other aspirations - like being a bishop, or prominent leader, you will eventually be disappointed. People come to church for all kinds of reasons, some are noble, some are less than that. If you do not hear of the Savior during your meeting, why not be the one to bring him into the limelight? He will adore you for that! There are some people who lift me greatly during church, and others who seem to struggle with just being Tolerant. We are all here at the Lords invitation, we honor him by honoring and bearing each others burdens. Some burdens are more obnoxious than others. Pride is by far the most obnoxious burden because it is obvious to everyone except the one who bears it, and it is more contagious than a Primary class tabletop in February.

Partaking of the Sacrament can be the highlight of your week (I believe strongly it is the highlight of Heavenly Fathers week) Admittedly, It can also be totally meaningless to you. You may not be able to recall any of your sins from the previous week, but the attempt is what the Lord asks. It is he who offers you the Bread and Water, along with the firm promise that he hasn't given up on you. I don't know if any of this makes sense, or means anything to anyone. but if you are struggling with the burdens of boredom, perhaps the Lord is calling you to become a healer, rather than a wall flower. You can find someone's burden and pile on, you can walk away, or you can lift - your choice.

[Mikedavis]

Wow what an insitufull post Dimbulbz. I totally agree.

I guess like other aspects of worship sacrament is just a ritual. The meaning and true power of the sacrament stems from God, from the fact that Jesus ordained them and from the fact that the Holy Ghost works through them to mold and shape our lives to the glory of God.

I think that every time we receive the sacrament, God seeks to give His Grace to each participant. Unlike most people in my ward I'm at the very start of my personal journey back home to Heavonly Farther and at this point I do not know how God makes that transfer of Grace (perhaps I newer will), but I also do not think that the mechanics of this process are as important as the fact that it happens; for this reason I think receiving the sacrament will always will be the most important part of my week and not who I sit next too :)

[Mikedavis]

Insert NOT between "are" and " as important"

Sorry, stubby fingers and iPhones don't mix.

[NightSG]

Those inferior speakers we see at the lectern each Sunday aren't shallow. They're just products of a modern culture that, for all its technology, really isn't very good at communicating spiritual things.

Having recently blasted through both a Lit&Comp class and a Public Speaking class, (One prof told me after the class that he hoped I was just there to boost my GPA, because I went into the class better than all but one other student left it. I consider my speaking skills mediocre, though I'll brag about my writing. According to the prof, mediocre on an absolute scale is still off the charts on any scale relative to most college students.) they're generally not that good with non-spiritual things either. That's why great public speakers stand out so much and are in such high demand.

Edited August 27, 2013 by NightSG