Is sexual immorality idolatry?

[prisonchaplain]

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. Rom 1:24-25

While this passage can include same-sex sins, for 97% of us fornication and adultery are the more likely sins. Even pornography might count. Is it all a form of idolatry--worshiping the creature (flesh) rather than the Creator? More than that, when we blame God by saying He made us this way--are we not bowing to what God made rather than God himself?

[Quin]

<grinning> I'm having fun going "conversely" with you, PC! I like the way your mind works.

Conversely...

One could also view sexual expression as worshiping and drawing closer to God, himself.

Reveling in his creation.

Sharing goodness, and love, and joy.

Exultation instead of degradation.

Q

[Dravin]

I think you that one could probably tie any sin back to idolatry with your line of reasoning, all sin can be said to be elevating the natural man, his understanding and desires, over God.

[prisonchaplain]

<grinning> I'm having fun going "conversely" with you, PC! I like the way your mind works.

Conversely...

One could also view sexual expression as worshiping and drawing closer to God, himself.

Reveling in his creation.

Sharing goodness, and love, and joy.

Exultation instead of degradation.

Q

Within the parameters He established I heartily agree.

[prisonchaplain]

I think you that one could probably tie any sin back to idolatry with your line of reasoning, all sin can be said to be elevating the natural man, his understanding and desires, over God.

The difference, as I view this passage, is that Paul seems to be directly making that tie-in. I'm reminded of his saying that when we sin against our body--which is the temple of the Holy Spirit--it suggests an especially serious disobedience.

1 Cor. 6:18: "Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body."

Edited September 5, 2013 by prisonchaplain

[SpiritDragon]

I think that sexual sin (not to be confused with appropriate intimacy) is indeed a form of idolatry. The definition of idolatry I work with is putting something before/above god. In this case the individual is choosing to worship the human body and the pleasures it is capable of over and above the clear commands of a loving god.

But by my own definition I am frequently guilty of idolatry in other forms such as watching tv when I could be serving others or reading my scriptures. So perhaps my definition needs some work; or perhaps it is I who needs the work (no doubt here).

[andypg]

<grinning> I'm having fun going "conversely" with you, PC! I like the way your mind works.

Conversely...

One could also view sexual expression as worshiping and drawing closer to God, himself.

Reveling in his creation.

Sharing goodness, and love, and joy.

Exultation instead of degradation.

Q

This is true. Sex is a beautiful thing that does draw husband and wife closer to God.

But...

C.S. Lewis wrote that sin is "spoiled goodness." The sin comes not from the thing itself, but in the misuse of that thing. The Russian Orthodox priest Alexander Schmemann said that sin comes from not seeing things as gifts from God and misusing them because of it.

With regards to sexual expression, it is beautiful and a gift from God, but the misuse of that gift is sin.

[NightSG]

While this passage can include same-sex sins, for 97% of us fornication and adultery are the more likely sins.

I just hope you aren't working this line of questioning because you're expecting too much from my wardrobe tips

[drham3rd]

I agree that sexual sins are a form of idolatry! My take on idolatry is anything that man elevates above God. Since sexual expression is something God created for a married couple to share, the correct use of this gift is putting God first while the incorrect use is putting desires above God, thus idolatry!

[Finrock]

In ancient times the prohibition against idolatry was specifically because of the religious practices that attended idol worship. These practices included worship of the body and the worship of sex. Sex rites were a fundamental component of many of the heathen or pagan religions.

Regards,

Finrock

[prisonchaplain]

First, all sin separates us from God and his best. However, there is a sense in which Paul is arguing that sexual sins are of a more serious nature--because they relate to our bodies, which are God's temple. So, yes it can be argued that any disobedience of God is a kind of idolatry. However, Paul seems to say that sex sins are directly so--they are more offensive to God. No?

[Bini]

I need someone to clear this up for me.

When God refers to our bodies being a temple, is it our actual physical bodies, or the spirit that resides inside? I would agree that sexual sin directly repulses God because we use our bodies to engage in sexual sin but what about using our bodies to engage in other sinful acts, like murder? Is it the mere fact that our physical bodies are going through certain sinful motions that is wrong? Or is it the fact that the spirit inside using the body as a conduit to perform certain sinful actions that is wrong?

[Lakumi]

I agree that sexual sins are a form of idolatry! My take on idolatry is anything that man elevates above God. Since sexual expression is something God created for a married couple to share, the correct use of this gift is putting God first while the incorrect use is putting desires above God, thus idolatry!

what if you're part of a religion that has idols lol

then what is it?

[Maureen]

I need someone to clear this up for me.

When God refers to our bodies being a temple, is it our actual physical bodies, or the spirit that resides inside? I would agree that sexual sin directly repulses God because we use our bodies to engage in sexual sin but what about using our bodies to engage in other sinful acts, like murder? Is it the mere fact that our physical bodies are going through certain sinful motions that is wrong? Or is it the fact that the spirit inside using the body as a conduit to perform certain sinful actions that is wrong?

I would have to say this temple reference is speaking of our actual bodies. If you abuse your body, as in a drug addict; then not only are you harming God's temple but also your mind (soul and spirit) that is an integral part of your body.

M.

[prisonchaplain]

I'm leery of separating out body and spirit. Paul's reference relates directly to sins against the body, so I'd take it literally. God gave us these bodies, and we are to honor them.

[Quin]

I'm leery of separating out body and spirit. Paul's reference relates directly to sins against the body, so I'd take it literally. God gave us these bodies, and we are to honor them.

When I was 11 I decided that pain was the (individual) spirit's way of getting used to leaving its body. Otherwise, why not stick around forever?

I think that by causing ourselves and others pain we run exactly that risk, separating body & spirit. Damage lingers, builds when it doesn't heal, or can only partially heal. Just like sex is hardly always sin, pain is hardly always a bad thing... But as we're talking about all these concepts, I too, am leery of separating body and spirit. Since way back when. (Of course, way bac when I also thought candy for breakfast was the way to go... But while that one got tossed... Pain+preparing a soul to leave has stuck around.) It makes me cautious. Emotional/neurological is also always physical. (Plus the atonement aspect, of course. Every jot of unnecessary pain we go through, or cause others, is felt.) physical and emotional/mental cannot be split. Physical & spiritual cannot be split.

We're all glued together. Until we aren't.

Q

[Traveler]

I'm leery of separating out body and spirit. Paul's reference relates directly to sins against the body, so I'd take it literally. God gave us these bodies, and we are to honor them.

Greetings PC - I will try to respond to this thread with my understanding - that, of course, is very LDS.

When we say that our bodies are the temple of G-d I believe that there are some very interesting spiritual and religious notions that are related. Not only are our bodies the temple of G-d but our bodies are in the image and likeness of G-d's temple and body. It is in being born of body that we as spirit children of the Father become more like G-d. It makes complete sense to me that having a physical body in the image and likeness of G-d is a source of divine power to become like G-d or to become g-ds. I realize that your Protestant background is going to experience a gag reflex with this idea rather than being able to swallow it but hear me out.

Perhaps the highest order of divine nature or divine power is to create and especially to create new life. But in the divine nature of the bodies we have been given we are not only able to create new life but new life that is again a replication of G-d and divine image and likeness. Perhaps this is at the very heart of what the meaning of the "true and living G-d" actually means. What I am trying to say that what many call "sex" is the essence of the divine power to create life in the image and likeness of G-d.

I believe that if worship of G-d is in essence becoming more like G-d and emulating G-d then the act of becoming a parent is the highest and most noble act of emulation and worship. To pervert this very and most sacred trust and power is also the highest form of desecration of the divine nature (with the one exception of destroying or taking life {Murder}).

In many conversations I have had with my Evangelical friends - it would seem that they believe that turning one's back on G-d is the greatest of all sins and the means to ruin one's chance at living in heaven with G-d. Perhaps - but it is my view that perverting one's sexual endowment and divine power is perhaps the most ardent and shameful way one can turn their back on G-d and his power of creation.

The Traveler

Edited September 8, 2013 by Traveler

[Maureen]

...I believe that if worship of G-d is in essence becoming more like G-d and emulating G-d then the act of becoming a parent is the highest and most noble act of emulation and worship. To pervert this very and most sacred trust and power is also the highest form of desecration of the divine nature (with the one exception of destroying or taking life {Murder}).

...but it is my view that perverting one's sexual endowment and divine power is perhaps the most ardent and shameful way one can turn their back on G-d and his power of creation.

Traveler, are you saying that you believe the best way to worship God is by procreating? And if you fail to procreate you are turning your back on God? If so, what about people that are unable to procreate; they have no choice in the matter?

M.

[prisonchaplain]

Traveler, I do not have to agree with your doctrine to see the beauty in your observation. While I do not believe that the Father is corporeal, nevertheless I embrace the scripture that we are made in the image of God. Since God created us, and we "create" through the sex act, there surely is something that is sacred and spiritually powerful in it.

Maureen, I'm not sure that seeing procreation as an act of sacred worship has to imply any failure on the part of those who cannot conceive or contribute to it.

[Traveler]

Traveler, are you saying that you believe the best way to worship God is by procreating? And if you fail to procreate you are turning your back on God? If so, what about people that are unable to procreate; they have no choice in the matter?

M.

I am saying that marriage is a sacred covenant that creates life - but not just any life but life that is in the vary image and likeness of G-d. If you know or can think of any thing that mankind can engage in that is more wonderful and like G-d and his powers of creation than to join with him through the covenant of marriage to create life in his image - I would be most interested in how you came to such a conclusion.

And if you look again at what I said I believe concerning an abuse or desecration of such a sacred thing - is as this thread implies - a desecration of worship or a most shameful idolatry. If you believe that there is something good that can come from perverting marriage and perverting the sacred opportunity of parenting of children - I would be most interested in hearing what good or benefit you have discovered.

The Traveler

[Misshalfway]

I would absolutely agree with you, PC. In my work with sexual addiction (I use the term loosely because I see all sexual sin as addictive in nature...well perhaps all sin is addictive. :)), I see the idolatry and its heartbreaking to witness. It's a from of slavery like a moth that must fly towards the light. It's obviously a blindness and a delusion but not so obvious to the one caught in the tractor beam. And the delusion starts at the moment of indulgence. It's what gives Satan his access point. It's a delusion about where and how to get comfort, and where and how to achieve happiness. And then, dismay! Because the sensation never lasts! And so they have to keep going back to get more. And in order to go back, they have to lie to themselves. They have to deny their conscience and put to sleep their knowing. And slowly the sensitivities to spirit start to die and the attachment to something hollow and dead endures.

[Maureen]

I am saying that marriage is a sacred covenant that creates life - but not just any life but life that is in the vary image and likeness of G-d. If you know or can think of any thing that mankind can engage in that is more wonderful and like G-d and his powers of creation than to join with him through the covenant of marriage to create life in his image - I would be most interested in how you came to such a conclusion.

Yes, I agree, marriage is a sacred covenant that has the ability to create life.

And if you look again at what I said I believe concerning an abuse or desecration of such a sacred thing - is as this thread implies - a desecration of worship or a most shameful idolatry. If you believe that there is something good that can come from perverting marriage and perverting the sacred opportunity of parenting of children - I would be most interested in hearing what good or benefit you have discovered.

I was not offering any opinion about the subject of this thread, I was just asking you a question. So then, following the subject of this thread, you are defining perverting marriage as engaging in such things as adultery, fornication, pornography and homosexuality? And all those vices pervert "the sacred opportunity of parenting children". Is that what you are saying Traveler? I'm just asking for clarification, that's all.

M.

[Traveler]

I was not offering any opinion about the subject of this thread, I was just asking you a question. So then, following the subject of this thread, you are defining perverting marriage as engaging in such things as adultery, fornication, pornography and homosexuality? And all those vices pervert "the sacred opportunity of parenting children". Is that what you are saying Traveler? I'm just asking for clarification, that's all.

M.

Yes! As I understand your question - Do you agree?

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Traveler, I do not have to agree with your doctrine to see the beauty in your observation. While I do not believe that the Father is corporeal, nevertheless I embrace the scripture that we are made in the image of God. Since God created us, and we "create" through the sex act, there surely is something that is sacred and spiritually powerful in it.

Perhaps I may even suggest that we consider the next logical step in thinking. The scriptures tell us that man is a creation of G-d. You and I are members of the subset of man that is created by G-d. It is my personal belief that there is no evidence (scripture or otherwise) that you and I were created by any alternate method than was Adam and Eve. Noting also that G-d and his "methods" are the same yesterday, today and tomorrow - that G-d is unchanging.

And now a thought from the Traveler - Since parents are the prescribed method of G-d creating man in his image - that he has asked and commanded that we participate in creation with him. I asked you some time ago in what way man is not like G-d and can never be like G-d. And you said -- that G-d is the creator and we are the created. But now we must consider - as part of our worship that man is indeed a creator like G-d and partner with G-d in the greatest of all creations -- a creation in the very image and likeness of G-d.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

If we look at creation through strictly biblical eyes, there seems to be a tremendous difference in the way Adam and Eve were created and how we were. God spoke and Adam & Eve came into existence. This is what scripture says. There is no talk of a God-mother. Cain and Abel, on the other hand, came to being through sexual intercourse.

It can be argued that creation out of nothing is an assumption. Perhaps it is. So too is the idea that God made Adam and Eve like we were made.

The added revelations of your faith may lead you to the latter notion. I'd suggest our lack of those revelations makes the former assumption seem more likely. I'll not deny that there is logic and beauty to your line of reasoning though.