SL Tribune: Mormon church is evolving, Steve Young’s wife tells LGBT crowd

[Swiper]

Gay Mormons chose to be born at this time so they could be leaders in the fight for love *— and they seem to be winning the battle.

That is how it looks to Barb Young, an LDS convert and wife of former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Steve Young.

"More and more people are opening their hearts every day," Barb Young said Saturday in the concluding speech at the 2013 International Affirmation Conference for LGBT Mormons, their families and allies. "You are teaching them about [gays] and Jesus and that his love is infinite."

/.../

Full article: Mormon church is evolving, Steve Young’s wife tells LGBT crowd | The Salt Lake Tribune

Steve Young's talk last night at the Affirmation conference:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3563634/SteveYoung-Affirmation-2013.wav

Barb Young's talk last night at the Affirmation conference:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3563634/BarbYoung-Affirmation-2013.wav

(Courtesy of John Dehlin)

[Just_A_Guy]

Mmm. Did anyone come out (pardon the pun) and ask Steve or Barb whether they think gay sex is a violation of the law of chastity?

[Lakumi]

I remember in church a few weeks back at the... class you have after the church part, and it was about the law of chastity (homosexuality obviously being talked about...negatively-though pornography got the worst...)

I don't think I have ever been more uncomfortable in my whole life... don't believe I've been back since.

[john doe]

Last I checked, homosexual activity is still a sin. While the LDS Church has worked hard to help its members understand that they should love the sinner while hating the sin, their stance on the behavior being a sin has not changed.

[merced56]

Some day God will take care all these things, He will be the judge of all things not us. we just need to love our neighbor. we need to do what is right for our God and be the light and example of others that are caught in the evil world!!

[applepansy]

Steve Young has never been public with his feelings . . . at least I've never read an article or heard an interview where he has been asked. However, his wife has been very vocal. Until Steve states his views on this or any other subject I have a hard time automatically thinking he feels the same way as his wife does. I have wondered what Steve thought ever since his wife because vocal during the Prop 8 campaigning.

I know my husband and I have different views on some subjects. It irritates me when someone assumes I feel the same way about something with out asking my views.

[pam]

If I remember correctly and I could be wrong, but I think Steve Young's wife was very vocal during the prop 8 thing too. Again, if I remember correctly, I think she has a brother or at the least a very close relative who is gay. I'm going off from memory which does fail me at times.

*edit* I see apple already talked about this. That will teach me to read all of the comments before I comment.

Edited September 16, 2013 by pam

[Traveler]

I realize that we all need to love one another. But I believe that the most important thing in life in regards to loving others is work and encourage that which will be for the greatest benefit. If anyone could logically provide even a single benefit for society provided by homosexuality - I would be glad to say that I am all for honoring the activity - But even the most ardent supporters seem to not know of any actual benefit. Surprisingly missing from the discussion is how we are benefited - not by individuals that happen to be homosexual and contribute good things outside of their sexuality - for which anyone should be honored. But for those that want to make homosexuality not just an issues in and of itself but an activity of honor - should at least be willing to say why they support that particular activity and what benefit they see in it.

The Traveler

[applepansy]

Found this after I posted above

Steve Young speaks to LGBT Mormons and their allies | FOX13Now.com

[Lakumi]

I realize that we all need to love one another. But I believe that the most important thing in life in regards to loving others is work and encourage that which will be for the greatest benefit. If anyone could logically provide even a single benefit for society provided by homosexuality - I would be glad to say that I am all for honoring the activity - But even the most ardent supporters seem to not know of any actual benefit. Surprisingly missing from the discussion is how we are benefited - not by individuals that happen to be homosexual and contribute good things outside of their sexuality - for which anyone should be honored. But for those that want to make homosexuality not just an issues in and of itself but an activity of honor - should at least be willing to say why they support that particular activity and what benefit they see in it.

The Traveler

Most things in society have no benefit to it.

One could site things homosexuality benefits, but since you believe its wrong nothing I say would change your mind.

It would be a complete waste of my time.

[skippy740]

I just don't like the idea that it appears that Steve Young and his wife are speaking on behalf of the Church and making promises/predictions that they are not qualified to make. Celebrity status only goes so far.

[Dravin]

I just don't like the idea that it appears that Steve Young and his wife are speaking on behalf of the Church and making promises/predictions that they are not qualified to make. Celebrity status only goes so far.

I'll be honest, my first thought was: "Football player and his wife make comments. News at 11." I suppose Steve Young is famous but it's pretty much the comments of a pair of random people as far as Church hierarchy goes.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Dravin

[Traveler]

Most things in society have no benefit to it.

One could site things homosexuality benefits, but since you believe its wrong nothing I say would change your mind.

It would be a complete waste of my time.

I do not know about most things - but there are many things in society that that do not benefit society and societies that do not make efforts to minimize such effects are doomed. But that is not the point of this discussion.

As far as benefits - hopefully we understand what an actual benefit is. But as I said - for what ever reason and with what ever excuse those that champion homosexuality refuse to offer what they think to be a benefit for open and honest discussion. Even if I believe homosexuality to be evil - why would any reasonable and intelligent person think that refusing to offer or discuss any possible benefit to be the best course of accomplishing understanding - leaves me to believe proponents are not thinking there position through very well.

For sake of example I will offer a benefit of heterosexual behavior - Heterosexual behavior allows human society to survive past the current generation. I would be very interested if anyone believes that the benefit of homosexual behavior is even anywhere near as important to be considered in any way of "equal" importance.

The Traveler

[MarginOfError]

How about this one, Traveler--destigmatizing homosexuality prevents homosexuals from being bullied and committing suicide.

Now before you do your mental gymnastics to explain your way through that one, take a minute and think about what is actually the difference between normalizing behavior and destigmatizing behavior?

[Lakumi]

I do not know about most things - but there are many things in society that that do not benefit society and societies that do not make efforts to minimize such effects are doomed. But that is not the point of this discussion.

As far as benefits - hopefully we understand what an actual benefit is. But as I said - for what ever reason and with what ever excuse those that champion homosexuality refuse to offer what they think to be a benefit for open and honest discussion. Even if I believe homosexuality to be evil - why would any reasonable and intelligent person think that refusing to offer or discuss any possible benefit to be the best course of accomplishing understanding - leaves me to believe proponents are not thinking there position through very well.

For sake of example I will offer a benefit of heterosexual behavior - Heterosexual behavior allows human society to survive past the current generation. I would be very interested if anyone believes that the benefit of homosexual behavior is even anywhere near as important to be considered in any way of "equal" importance.

The Traveler

romantic love has no benefit, in the grand scheme of things... but as long as its with a man and a woman it's fine.

tell me the benefits of heterosexual romantic love over homosexual romantic love

[Guest]

How about this one, Traveler--destigmatizing homosexuality prevents homosexuals from being bullied and committing suicide.

Now before you do your mental gymnastics to explain your way through that one, take a minute and think about what is actually the difference between normalizing behavior and destigmatizing behavior?

This has nothing to do with Traveler's question though.

What's a benefit to same sex intercourse is the question. Not what's a benefit of not talking about homosexual and evil actions in the same sentence...

Now, if you would say - those who are attracted only to their own gender can experience sexual pleasure with somebody else. Then that answers the question.

[Lakumi]

This has nothing to do with Traveler's question though.

What's a benefit to same sex intercourse is the question. Not what's a benefit of not talking about homosexual and evil actions in the same sentence...

Now, if you would say - those who are attracted only to their own gender can experience sexual pleasure with somebody else. Then that answers the question.

what's the benefit of intercourse with a man who had a vasectomy

or what if one (or both) of the union cannot have children?

and also, a benefit to who? society? why does society benefit from people doing it?

or not doing it, why is it bad that people have premarital sex, or have a child and never get married but stay together

maybe they're atheists and don't believe in marriage

what if its a polygamy style thing, still atheists, but a strong home?

does an atheist union benefit anyone?

Edited September 16, 2013 by Lakumi

[MarginOfError]

This has nothing to do with Traveler's question though.

What's a benefit to same sex intercourse is the question. Not what's a benefit of not talking about homosexual and evil actions in the same sentence...

Now, if you would say - those who are attracted only to their own gender can experience sexual pleasure with somebody else. Then that answers the question.

It's a little inaccurate to say that it has "nothing to do" with Traveler's question. Unless you can explain to me how you expect to destigmatize homosexuality without destigmatizing homsexual sex.

[Dravin]

It's a little inaccurate to say that it has "nothing to do" with Traveler's question. Unless you can explain to me how you expect to destigmatize homosexuality without destigmatizing homsexual sex.

I suspect the issue is you kinda skipped, as in did not lay them out, the intermediate steps that tie it into Traveler's question. He asked about the societal benefit of homosexual behavior and you've answered concerning the societal benefit of destigmatizing homosexual behavior. I can see steps, that take you from his question to your response, but strictly speaking it doesn't answer Traveler's question though it does deal with Traveler on his own terms, namely the arena of societal benefit.

Which I suppose is a long winded way of saying: It does have something to do with Traveler's question though it is not a direct answer to Traveler's question.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Dravin

[MarginOfError]

I suspect the issue is you kinda skipped the intermediate steps that tie it into Traveler's question. He asked about the societal benefit of homosexual behavior and you've answered concerning the societal benefit of destigmatizing homosexual behavior. I can see steps, though I don't know if they are the ones you actually took, that take you from his question to your response, but strictly speaking it doesn't answer Traveler's question though it does deal with Traveler on his own terms, namely the arena of societal benefit.

Which I suppose is a long winded way of saying: It does have something to do with Traveler's question though it is not a direct answer to Traveler's question.

That's a critique I can live with. Especially since it makes the point that just because you don't see a direct and indisputable benefit doesn't mean that there aren't indirect benefits worth evaluating.

Such calls for only permitting things that have an immediately observable benefit to society remind me of Delores Umbridge saying "Progress for the sake of progress must be discouraged."

[Dravin]

That's a critique I can live with. Especially since it makes the point that just because you don't see a direct and indisputable benefit doesn't mean that there aren't indirect benefits worth evaluating.

Additionally say we take it as a given that there is no benefit to homosexual behavior. What society should do about it is a separate question, that in my mind naturally follows Traveler's question, to which the question of societal benefit can be applied*. Which is the question it feels like your comments were aimed at.

*And really, is a question to be asked regardless of what the answer to Traveler's question is; that homosexual behavior is beneficial, neutral, or harmful.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Dravin

[Leah]

Most things in society have no benefit to it.

One could site things homosexuality benefits, but since you believe its wrong nothing I say would change your mind.

It would be a complete waste of my time.

I would be curious to hear the ways in which you think homosexuality is beneficial. I think there are a lot ofeople who think it is not detrimental, but don't articulate why they think it is beneficial.

[prisonchaplain]

Some day God will take care all these things, He will be the judge of all things not us.

Within the church this is certainly not true. There is discipline when members willfully violate standards--it is so in nearly all Christian churches. Furthermore, the Apostle Paul tells us the day is coming when we will judge angels, so surely we can judge small matters between members. And then there is sin. The New Testament church and the Old Testament prophets did not shy away from calling out the sins of their communities.

we just need to love our neighbor. we need to do what is right for our God and be the light and example of others that are caught in the evil world!!

Part of love is rescue. When we love someone we will sometimes confront them with their mistakes and wrong-doings. It is true that our actions had better back up our words, but there is no battle between saying and doing. It is not either/or. We should both do and say what is right.

[Just_A_Guy]

Such calls for only permitting things that have an immediately observable benefit to society remind me of Delores Umbridge saying "Progress for the sake of progress must be discouraged."

Hey, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

How about this one, Traveler--destigmatizing homosexuality prevents homosexuals from being bullied and committing suicide.

Now before you do your mental gymnastics to explain your way through that one, take a minute and think about what is actually the difference between normalizing behavior and destigmatizing behavior?

I don't discount the problems of stigmatization; but I'm not sure you can make such a clean break between "normalizing" versus "destigmatizing".

If you stigmatize something, you'll get less of it. Exhibit A: Racism. Exhibit B: Sexual harassment. Similarly, if you destigmatize something you tend to get more of it. Exhibit C: Divorce.

[Just_A_Guy]

romantic love has no benefit, in the grand scheme of things... but as long as its with a man and a woman it's fine.

tell me the benefits of heterosexual romantic love over homosexual romantic love

In LDS theology, romantic love has a HUGE benefit for a heterosexual couple. That argument may not translate well into the political sphere--but as long as we're talking about relationship norms on an LDS-oriented website, it's kind of hard to just ignore that theology.