God called them to be rich?

[pam]

Southern Christian Family 'God Called to Be Rich' Flaunts Wealth in New Bravo Reality Series 'Thicker Than Water'

A new reality tv show coming out.

[Guest]

One more reality show that puts Christians in the whacko light?

[Praetorian_Brow]

Some LDS believe this about themselves too.

Some seem to believe poor people must be unrighteous and lazy, as they aren't getting the same "blessings" they get with their hordes of cash.

[Vort]

I have heard this referred to as "abundance theology". I am somewhat surprised that people buy into it (yuk yuk), since it seems explicitly anti-Christian to me. But I suppose many people flock to whatever preacher will justify them in their desires, the more carnal the better.

[Just_A_Guy]

Some LDS believe this about themselves too.

Some seem to believe poor people must be unrighteous and lazy, as they aren't getting the same "blessings" they get with their hordes of cash.

I think it's more an issue of many American Mormons believing that the USA is still the kind of place where the classic Horatio Alger story is still not only possible, but probable.

Perhaps a nuanced distinction; but a distinction nonetheless.

[NeuroTypical]

Sounds like one of the many ways rich guilty people try to alleviate guilt or shoot for humility (or at least the appearance of humility).

[pam]

I've been seeing this conversation on a few lds facebook pages today. Many are throwing out the word priestcraft.

[carlimac]

Some LDS believe this about themselves too.

Some seem to believe poor people must be unrighteous and lazy, as they aren't getting the same "blessings" they get with their hordes of cash.

Really? Who?

[carlimac]

Sounds like one of the many ways rich guilty people try to alleviate guilt or shoot for humility (or at least the appearance of humility).

I have one sibling who has been wealthy most of her married life. She has always been extremely generous and humble about what she has. She hardly ever advertises when she is traveling abroad, even to her family so that she doesn't appear too worldly. They have given lots of their money away and have gone on many humanitarian trips around the world. They helped my other sister rebuild her house after a flood. She has flown siblings for visits many times.

Recently they lost their business and have been trying to string another livelihood along all while going through cancer treatments for two immediate family members at the same time. They have become well aware that what the Lord giveth, he can take away, too. The first shall be last and the last shall be first.

I personally know many wealthy people and none of them act like they are any more worthy than the next person. Not to say there aren't some who might act that way. But to judge them is just as bad as them being conceited. And it comes off as petty. The Lord will deal with them in the way He sees fit.

[slamjet]

Prosperity Theology - The biggest scam perpetrated on Christians world-wide. I believe Christ had a couple of parables against it let alone the downfall of the Nephite civilization.

[lds2]

I've been in testimony meetings where in an extremely wealthy ward one brother said that he was especially blessed and chosen to be rich as it was proof of his righteousness and God's trust in him, and in a poor ward where the brother said he was especially chosen to be poor and it was proof of God's trust in him and proof of his righteousness (Satan was obviously working extra hard against him, etc.)

But if I had to choose...

[Traveler]

Some LDS believe this about themselves too.

Some seem to believe poor people must be unrighteous and lazy, as they aren't getting the same "blessings" they get with their hordes of cash.

My father was 1 of 14 children raised in a 3 bedroom home without running water or central heat. By time I was born my father was well on his way to what most consider wealthy. However, I grew up thinking we were poor. I discovered during my college years that I was born into wealth and privilege - at least in the mind of most people.

Since then I have discovered that the common stereo-type of the wealthy is as far off the mark as any other stereo-type. In general, among the wealthy I know, and I know quite a few, generally they are harder working than anyone else. Generally they do not flaunt their money - and hate to be recognized as wealthy or well to do. They are usually very generous and charitable but are sick and tired of family and friends expecting gifts and handouts. Yes they do abhor laziness - and find it almost impossible to relax and take a vacation. I do not think I have met any wealthy individual that actually believes they deserve their wealth.

I have also met many people that think they are wealthy or that act what they think is wealthy; that are in essence living a lie on borrowed money. They dress to be recognized and act as if everybody owes them something. It is this group that I believe many think are the wealthy and from which they create their stereo-type. Sadly it is also this type of false wealthy that most aspire to. Many want to be wealthy by not working hard or not making sacrifices. The kind that thinks that working for minimum wage is demeaning. They want to be wealthy so they can flaunt something that is not a real reflection of their effort. They want to appear better without trying - they want others to respect them without earning respect - and they think to buy friends and honor and everything else with money.

However the sad state of reality is that anyone in the USA is wealthy by the worlds and histories standards. Most actual poor live their lives and their time day to day just trying to get clean water to drink and a meal for their family. Even the poorest in the USA have cell phones, access to the internet, a warm place to stay in winter and air conditioning in summer and so much to eat that they are overweight.

The Traveler

[pam]

Of course they are going to make even more money being on the reality tv show.

[Leah]

My father was 1 of 14 children raised in a 3 bedroom home without running water or central heat. By time I was born my father was well on his way to what most consider wealthy. However, I grew up thinking we were poor. I discovered during my college years that I was born into wealth and privilege - at least in the mind of most people.

Since then I have discovered that the common stereo-type of the wealthy is as far off the mark as any other stereo-type. In general, among the wealthy I know, and I know quite a few, generally they are harder working than anyone else. Generally they do not flaunt their money - and hate to be recognized as wealthy or well to do. They are usually very generous and charitable but are sick and tired of family and friends expecting gifts and handouts. Yes they do abhor laziness - and find it almost impossible to relax and take a vacation. I do not think I have met any wealthy individual that actually believes they deserve their wealth.

I have also met many people that think they are wealthy or that act what they think is wealthy; that are in essence living a lie on borrowed money. They dress to be recognized and act as if everybody owes them something. It is this group that I believe many think are the wealthy and from which they create their stereo-type. Sadly it is also this type of false wealthy that most aspire to. Many want to be wealthy by not working hard or not making sacrifices. The kind that thinks that working for minimum wage is demeaning. They want to be wealthy so they can flaunt something that is not a real reflection of their effort. They want to appear better without trying - they want others to respect them without earning respect - and they think to buy friends and honor and everything else with money.

However the sad state of reality is that anyone in the USA is wealthy by the worlds and histories standards. Most actual poor live their lives and their time day to day just trying to get clean water to drink and a meal for their family. Even the poorest in the USA have cell phones, access to the internet, a warm place to stay in winter and air conditioning in summer and so much to eat that they are overweight.

The Traveler

I was kind of with you until the last sentence. It is simply not true.

There are plenty of poor people in the US who do NOT have cell phones. Access to the internet...yes the poor can access the internet via their local public library, but what if they can't get to the library? What if their town has so such resource?

Where I live, I see homeless people sleeping on the streets even in the coldest of weather. And before you make the argument that there are shelters available, those resources are limited and people are turned away all the time. As for air conditioning in summer? Let's not get ridiculous here. I work 40 hours a week and even I can't afford air conditioning. I have never lived in an air-conditioned home.

As for having so much to eat that they are overweight (from a number of previous comments you have made, it is clear you have issues with anyone being overweight), I would suggest you speak to a medical professional who has actual knowledge about this matter. I have heard a number of medical professionals explain in detail how it is possible to actually be taking in an inadequate number of calories and still be overweight. It happens. But then, it is so much easier to be judgmental and see all overweight people as moral failures.

[talisyn]

I think the people in the op may have a point...to a point. We all are here to learn and grow, and we all are given strengths and weaknesses to facilitate that learning process. We have the story of the rich young man who asked Christ what he could do but found that he wasn't able to comply. Maybe he was able to later? Maybe he was able to overcome whatever blocks prevented him from fully following the counsel of Christ. The people in lds2's post are probably exactly right (but maybe should have phrased it differently lol).

That being said, we all have our agency. The people on the show know what Christian behavior is suppose to be and will be held accountable. Heaven help them

[Traveler]

I was kind of with you until the last sentence. It is simply not true.

There are plenty of poor people in the US who do NOT have cell phones. Access to the internet...yes the poor can access the internet via their local public library, but what if they can't get to the library? What if their town has so such resource?

Where I live, I see homeless people sleeping on the streets even in the coldest of weather. And before you make the argument that there are shelters available, those resources are limited and people are turned away all the time. As for air conditioning in summer? Let's not get ridiculous here. I work 40 hours a week and even I can't afford air conditioning. I have never lived in an air-conditioned home.

As for having so much to eat that they are overweight (from a number of previous comments you have made, it is clear you have issues with anyone being overweight), I would suggest you speak to a medical professional who has actual knowledge about this matter. I have heard a number of medical professionals explain in detail how it is possible to actually be taking in an inadequate number of calories and still be overweight. It happens. But then, it is so much easier to be judgmental and see all overweight people as moral failures.

As I have come involved there appear to be to be 4 kinds of poor?

1. The physically or mentally handicapped that are unable to be economically viable. (government programs cannot change their economic dependencies)

2. Substance abusers that cannot maintain their substance abuse and be economically viable. (treating this kind of poverty without addressing the abuse will not and cannot change their status)

3. What I call the hobo. This is a person that could be economically viable but chooses not to participate for what ever their reason. (usually these individuals really do not care if they get government subsidies or not)

4. Low skills individuals that are at the fringes of economically viability that because of some set back (accident, sickness, family circumstance or other) cannot maintain economically viability. (this is the one element where government can make a decided difference).

There are of course many individual poor that obtain their status by two or more of the categories I have mentioned. Currently in the USA over 40% of the citizens are receiving government subsidies. Of those on government subsidies 90% are officially classified as poor - according to the last US census (2010).

The classification of poor in the USA is the fastest growing economic demographic. The question is - is this this a trend or a temporary variation. It is interesting that since the current poverty program (great society) instituted during the Johnston administration we have redistributed close to 10% of the gross national product to poverty programs since the 1960's and poverty in the USA has increased. It is time to recognize that current concepts have failed.

I suggest that we consider a negative income tax as proposed by the recognized world renown economists Milton Friedman.

The Traveler

[Praetorian_Brow]

Its dangerous to blame the poor for being poor, regardless of how you think you understand their situation. There will always be poor when there is rich and the reason some are rich is simply because some are poor.

Government programs seek to equalize that, but so often the people of privilege would rather believe that their position on economics is more informed and those who own less than them, are somehow unworthy of what bread crumbs have been given to them.

At what point are social programs cut by the rich because they feel that they pay too much tax? Its ironic that the people who dictate policy are more often than not the rich, but they are the minority by a long shot, which sort of makes the idea of democracy rather ironic. Even worse, is that a democratic republic starts to believe that they don't have a body of citizen voters that support the head of privileged officials.

[carlimac]

I've been in testimony meetings where in an extremely wealthy ward one brother said that he was especially blessed and chosen to be rich as it was proof of his righteousness and God's trust in him, and in a poor ward where the brother said he was especially chosen to be poor and it was proof of God's trust in him and proof of his righteousness (Satan was obviously working extra hard against him, etc.)

But if I had to choose...

I've been in a testimony meeting where an old guy stood up and said oats were only for horses.

Everything you hear over the pulpit is about as true as everything you read on the internet.

[Traveler]

Its dangerous to blame the poor for being poor, regardless of how you think you understand their situation. There will always be poor when there is rich and the reason some are rich is simply because some are poor.

Government programs seek to equalize that, but so often the people of privilege would rather believe that their position on economics is more informed and those who own less than them, are somehow unworthy of what bread crumbs have been given to them.

At what point are social programs cut by the rich because they feel that they pay too much tax? Its ironic that the people who dictate policy are more often than not the rich, but they are the minority by a long shot, which sort of makes the idea of democracy rather ironic. Even worse, is that a democratic republic starts to believe that they don't have a body of citizen voters that support the head of privileged officials.

Again I think stereo-types of rich are at play - For some reason people think the rich dictate what is done with taxes. Is is possible that individuals involved in getting anything done have a much higher probability of becoming rich that individuals that have difficulty getting things done?

The problem has many sides - but the most important consideration is realizing why people are poor. I have suggested that there are in essence 4 reasons only one of which can any any form of outside assistance change the circumstance.

There is another way to look at this - people are poor because of one of two possibilities. One - they do not know how to be anything but poor. or Two they do not want to be anything but poor. Many seem to be suggestion that there is a third possibility - that there are poor that have the skills and desire to be rich but are prevented from being productive.

I must be honest - I do not understand this attitude that able people are failing because someone is preventing them from contributing. I have seen and experienced being ripped off and exploited. I realize that some individuals have become rich in this manner - but I am not sure that such is that critical in causing poverty.

History has shown that the most successful way to benefit the poor is in a thriving expanding economy. But that is also beneficial to the rich as well - and for that matter everyone. Some believe that there is benefit in a failing economy - but I believe that to be a false notion.

But one thing I have observed over the years it that giving handout is not beneficial. The best example of how that fails society is the example of rich spoiled kids that receive handouts from indulgent opulent parents. The idea that just because some kid's parents are rich that they are somehow entitled to wealth without having to earn it. I do not see that attitude any different that some people in an opulent society that think the rich should hand over some of the wealth to them - they are as bad as spoiled children of the wealthy.

The sad thing about spoiled children of the wealthy - is no one likes to play with them. But most children dream about being the children of wealthy parents when they are better off with parents and expect them to work hard.

I am very concerned about our poor - I am concerned also about the dignity of the poor and how we can help the poor without taking away their dignity. The best I have experienced is the LDS church welfare concept of those in need working along side of those without need that volunteer to work.

The Traveler

[Praetorian_Brow]

I am glad you are concerned about us, as no doubt your poor has much to be grateful for, given your sentiments on the subject. Would it be within my station to suggest that perhaps you are one of those children of wealth? I suppose I should be grateful for that trick down wealth theory that doesn't really seem to benefit me, as I must be too lazy to understand that all I need to do is be given the same opportunities as my benefactor suggests.

I was raised in a family of 7 kids and we ate dumpster day old bread, could only afford to shop at GoodWill, got Christmas presents through charity and drank powdered milk (not instant) all our lives. I will not be pitied for that, nor will I accept that somehow my parents did not work hard enough to be wealthy like so many, who believe handouts only encouraged our laziness.

I applaud that you are searching for your answers, as no doubt you travel the world and understand that poverty and starvation are not simply their own fault or their choice. Nor has their circumstance been gifted to them.

[abeChristianson]

I'm rich.... I have two children that I love with all of my heart, I have a wonderful fiancee in my life who is carrying my unborn child. I have a roof over my head and a steady job to support myself. Am I in the most perfect of circumstances financially or temporally, no, but I am blessed. I also have the Gospel in my life. Even though I haven't gone to church in a long time now........