Just_A_Guy Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I'm curious as to what people believe triggers a government shutdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 I don't understand why this is a poll. My understanding of polls is that there are no wrong answers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 It's just to see where people's understanding of the issue is. Nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 I thought this was a secret plot instigated by Bush. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 It's just to see where people's understanding of the issue is. Nothing more.I don't get it. Most, if not all of us, have been through high school... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerome1232 Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 I nominate, "When the house, the senate and the veto man all refuse to negotiate" as an answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 I don't get it. Most, if not all of us, have been through high school...And all of us have learned basic math, but I probably get asked at least 5 times in a 5 hour shift at Hobby Lobby how many inches are in a yard. That is no exaggeration.Not everyone understands the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 And all of us have learned basic math, but I probably get asked at least 5 times in a 5 hour shift at Hobby Lobby how many inches are in a yard. That is no exaggeration.Not everyone understands the process.You need a sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 I don't see an option for "politians are behaiving like spoilt children - throwing a temper until they get what they want" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 And all of us have learned basic math, but I probably get asked at least 5 times in a 5 hour shift at Hobby Lobby how many inches are in a yard. That is no exaggeration.Not everyone understands the process.How many inches are in a yard - I grew up with metric not imperial measurements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) How many inches are in a yard - I grew up with metric not imperial measurementsA yard is 36 inches (~ 9 cm short of a meter if you want to picture it). Edited October 16, 2013 by Dravin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 I don't see an option for "politians are behaiving like spoilt children - throwing a temper until they get what they want"Now this is a more interesting discussion.Are they really? Acting like spoilt children? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 How many inches are in a yard - I grew up with metric not imperial measurementsThat I would understand. But I don't get people who grew up in the states not knowing this basic information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Now this is a more interesting discussion.Are they really? Acting like spoilt children? I don't think so.Which newspaper or online news media are you reading? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Which newspaper or online news media are you reading? Philippine Star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Now this is a more interesting discussion.Are they really? Acting like spoilt children? I don't think so.What would you call people who refuse to negotiate unless they get everything they want? (Which isn't really negotiation.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted October 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 FWIW - The reason I posted this is, I've seen a surge of statements to the effect that "The Republicans voted to shut down the government" or "all it would take to end this, is for John Boehner to let the House vote to re-open the government". As far as I know, from a procedural standpoint this just can't be true. But I've heard it so much that I'm starting to second-guess myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) What would you call people who refuse to negotiate unless they get everything they want? (Which isn't really negotiation.)This is not true, though.Say we both have toys that we bought using a loan from the bank. But, then the bank is now asking us for money to pay for the toys and in our budget, we realize, we can't pay for all the toys so we have to give some things up. So we go on the table to negotiate which toy goes back to the bank.Now, I have this toy and it is very important to me because I made it myself and it took me years of blood and sweat to make that toy even how stupid a toy it is. Then you come along to the negotiation table and tell me I have to get rid of my toy otherwise, we all lose all our toys because we haven't paid for our toys and the bank is going to repossess all of it. Of course I'll say No. Because, that is non-negotiable. Now, if you want my GI Joe, you can have it. You can have ALL of it. But you can't touch my stupid toy. That's my negotiation counter-offer to you. But, you don't want my GI Joes. You want my stupid toy. So you make a counter-offer... let's just get rid of the stupid toy for now and then you can buy pieces of it back later. Of course I'm going to say No again because I don't want to risk the chance of losing my toy. That stupid toy is so important to me that I'd rather we all lose all our toys than me let go of that stupid toy. So we're in an impasse.Okay, in actuality, this is not the issue on the table - we're not having to return stuff to the bank. We're only discussing what gets paid in the budget - nobody actually loses any of their toys... it's just that, we can't use it because it hasn't been paid for yet. Edited October 16, 2013 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 In the 1970's, reformers reworked the political process. Now, candidates are ideologues that cater to their ideologue voter base, because the only people who actually cast votes are ideologues. Holding principles no longer gets you elected - it's where you stand on issues, and much you can appear as a supporter of issues. So, one side will fail to get reelected if they cave to the kill-obamacare crowd, and the other side will fail to get reelected if they cave to the expand government program crowd. And here most of you are, thinking it's the other side's fault. When in reality, this is how the political process works. I personally believe that people who voice opinions without voting should be sat in a corner and made to wear a "my fault" hat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 In the 1970's, reformers reworked the political process.I don't understand this. Can you explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Here's Stratfor's take on what happened in the 1970's. The Roots of the Government ShutdownFor most Americans, private life is more important than public life. There is only so much time and energy available, the issues are arcane and rarely involve things that will change ordinary citizens' lives much, and there is little broad-based ideological passion. Citizens frequently don't know or care who their congressman is, let alone who their state senator is. They care about schools and roads and taxes, and so long as those are functioning reasonably well, they are content.This greatly frustrated the reformers. They cared deeply about politics, and believed that everyone should, too. But in the country our founders bequeathed us, it was expected that most people would concern themselves with private things. And in fact they do: They do not vote in primaries or even in general elections.The primaries were left to the minority who cared. At the beginning, these were people who felt strongly about particular issues: corporate greed, the environment, war, abortion, taxes, and so on. Over time, these particular issues congealed into ideology. An ideology differs from issue-oriented matters in that ideology is a package of issues. On the right, low taxes and hostility to abortion frequently are linked. On the left, corporate greed and war are frequently linked. Eventually, a bond is created showing that apparently disparate issues are in fact part of the same package.Particular issues meld to form ideological factions. The ideological factions take common positions on a wide range of issues. The factions are relatively small minorities, but their power is vastly magnified by the primary system. Ideologues care because ideologies contain an apocalyptic element: If something is not done soon, the argument goes, catastrophe will ensue. The majority might well feel some unease regarding particular topics, and some may feel disaster is afoot, but they do not share the ideologue's belief that redemption can come from the political process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 I thought this was a secret plot instigated by Bush. :-) Okay PC. Nobody laughted. I just hope they didn't think you were serious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) Now this is a more interesting discussion.Are they really? Acting like spoilt children? I don't think so.To me as an outsider - with American friends who support both sides of the week - it is very much how it comes across to at least! Edited October 16, 2013 by Smudge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 What strikes me with the big hoopla around the shut down is the low approval ratings both parties are receiving. The President made a point after his reelection to brag that his agenda should go through because clearly the American people voted him back in. But those American people essentially voted everyone back in. If you want to read a message in that, it's that Americans were content with the status quo. The President's agenda can carry, but just barely and only after messy debate and shameless political posturing. And now we see the same behaviors carrying on. Do we really have a right to be surprised or disappointed in the bickering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Okay PC. Nobody laughted. I just hope they didn't think you were serious! Maybe we should have laughed. I'm a bit concerned that we have a guy quoting his own posts and talking to himself on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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