Wife's past haunting me

[Kirkko]

Hello,

I've lurked on here but have been afraid to post. I have been married 11 years and have three kids. Before I met my wife she was in two relationships where she was sexually active in multiple ways. She told me about one of them while dating and the other one came out a few years later. I have always had a hard time with it. She was in the process of repenting when we met and we were married in the temple. The problems is I always wonder if she will one day leave me and choose that kind of lifestyle again. I also get vivid images in my mind of her with other people sexually. I am and have been in counseling and I have struggled with depression because of this since I found out.

I know I'll get responses like forgive her, move on, but for me it is much easier said than done. My testimony has been shaken because I have tried earnestly to forgive, forget, move on, etc., but there is always a constant "sickness to my stomach". I don't believe I will ever be truly happy because this haunts me. I have even been suicidal at times. I wonder what it will be like in the afterlife if those she was with are there. I have hoped at times that they don't find the gospel so they don't haunt me in the afterlife. I wonder if this is something I'll have to deal with for eternity. I have always professed a belief in the atonement, for me this has been the hardest challenge of my life, and has really made me question if God does love and know me. I did not know before I met her that I would have such a problem with it. I know I'm not perfect and I think it's remarkable she has stuck around considering how this affects me.

I'm just wondering how people forget and make it so these kinds of things don't bother them anymore. I go a day or two with little to no thought on the subject and then out of the blue thoughts enter my mind and really devastate me. My thought process is this: I wasn't good enough to wait for, those other guys offered her something more than I can give because she was willing to forsake what she believed to be with them and then, even though she felt bad she continued to go back to the first and then the next. I worry that I was just the convenient returned missionary. I don't feel like she is mine, I have a hard time knowing she was held, kissed, etc in what I consider to be the most intimate way of showing love. When she is "not in the mood" I take it very personal and get depressed because I don't feel like I'm good at it or attractive enough, like those other guys who got what they wanted.

I know my way of thinking is wrong and from an outsider's perspective I'm making a big deal of something that happened years ago, but I really am heartbroken and I worry this will prevent me from experiencing true joy. So, again, if anyone has any advice please let me know.

Thanks

[NeuroTypical]

I don't believe I will ever be truly happy because this haunts me. I have even been suicidal at times.

Ok - this is sort of the critical sentence here. When something like this can get said about any issue or subject, it's no longer about the issue or subject. There is certainly a problem here, but it's not your wife's past. A reaction so strong, so visceral, that it results in such an immovable block to happiness, and even causes thoughts of suicide?

It sounds like you're trapped here and need help. I would strongly suggest you find the LDS Social Services in your area and speak to one of the counselors there. They deal with stuff like this, and they can probably help you. If you need help paying for it, start with your bishop.

[Finrock]

Hi Kirkko. Welcome to the forums.

It is helpful to realize that the thoughts that you have don't just come out of nowhere. The devil will tempt you to be offended. He wants to make sure you don't ever get past this because he can use this to destroy your marriage. Don't listen to those doubts and fears.

It is hard to do but put your whole trust in God. He will never fail you!

BTW, did you serve your mission in Finland?

-Finrock

[MarginOfError]

Loudmouth_Mormon is right. There is some kind of psychological problem. Simply put, you are ill. I don't know if that illness is a temporary thing that has lasted this long because it is untreated, or if you have a chronic illness. But you need to recognize that you are not healthy and you need professional help.

[mdfxdb]

Hello,

I've lurked on here but have been afraid to post. I have been married 11 years and have three kids. Before I met my wife she was in two relationships where she was sexually active in multiple ways. She told me about one of them while dating.......

Thanks

Yet you still married her. It obviously wasnt a problem then. Why is it a problem now?

[Lakumi]

Loudmouth_Mormon is right. There is some kind of psychological problem. Simply put, you are ill. I don't know if that illness is a temporary thing that has lasted this long because it is untreated, or if you have a chronic illness. But you need to recognize that you are not healthy and you need professional help.

sometimes, I get the impression there are people more hung up about the past then others.

The only girl I somewhat dated had many partners before me, and it never bothered me in the least.

[Leah]

sometimes, I get the impression there are people more hung up about the past then others.

The only girl I somewhat dated had many partners before me, and it never bothered me in the least.

You come from a very different mindset than those in the church. You see nothing wrong with sex outside of marriage, multiple partners, etc. So, of course, it wouldn't bother you. When people view sex as merely another recreational activity rather than the sacred act within marriage that Heavenly Father intended it to be, they aren't going to attach any importance to it.

That said...the OP had this knowledge prior to marrying and for it to bother him all this time later and to such a degree....there is something more going on here than his concern for his wife's past.

[Lakumi]

You come from a very different mindset than those in the church. You see nothing wrong with sex outside of marriage, multiple partners, etc. So, of course, it wouldn't bother you. When people view sex as merely another recreational activity rather than the sacred act within marriage that Heavenly Father intended it to be, they aren't going to attach any importance to it.

That said...the OP had this knowledge prior to marrying and for it to bother him all this time later and to such a degree....there is something more going on here than his concern for his wife's past.

no it's more the fact I don't like to dwell on the past, I'd feel the same way if she was a former smoker, partier, whatever.

Also my views were shaped by how I view marriage in and of itself. I am not a cut and dry person.

And just because I feel differently towards it doesn't mean I live it.

(I did have sex once-but ultimately I regret it because I didn't love her).

I've seen a lot of people make very poor choices when it comes to sex, and while growing up I did long for that life, I am glad- in the end- I wasn't a part of that insanity.

It is important, regardless of what you believe-and I can agree with you there.

[McLainDow]

Hello,

I've lurked on here but have been afraid to post. I have been married 11 years and have three kids. Before I met my wife she was in two relationships where she was sexually active in multiple ways. She told me about one of them while dating and the other one came out a few years later. I have always had a hard time with it. She was in the process of repenting when we met and we were married in the temple. The problems is I always wonder if she will one day leave me and choose that kind of lifestyle again. I also get vivid images in my mind of her with other people sexually. I am and have been in counseling and I have struggled with depression because of this since I found out.

I know I'll get responses like forgive her, move on, but for me it is much easier said than done. My testimony has been shaken because I have tried earnestly to forgive, forget, move on, etc., but there is always a constant "sickness to my stomach". I don't believe I will ever be truly happy because this haunts me. I have even been suicidal at times. I wonder what it will be like in the afterlife if those she was with are there. I have hoped at times that they don't find the gospel so they don't haunt me in the afterlife. I wonder if this is something I'll have to deal with for eternity. I have always professed a belief in the atonement, for me this has been the hardest challenge of my life, and has really made me question if God does love and know me. I did not know before I met her that I would have such a problem with it. I know I'm not perfect and I think it's remarkable she has stuck around considering how this affects me.

I'm just wondering how people forget and make it so these kinds of things don't bother them anymore. I go a day or two with little to no thought on the subject and then out of the blue thoughts enter my mind and really devastate me. My thought process is this: I wasn't good enough to wait for, those other guys offered her something more than I can give because she was willing to forsake what she believed to be with them and then, even though she felt bad she continued to go back to the first and then the next. I worry that I was just the convenient returned missionary. I don't feel like she is mine, I have a hard time knowing she was held, kissed, etc in what I consider to be the most intimate way of showing love. When she is "not in the mood" I take it very personal and get depressed because I don't feel like I'm good at it or attractive enough, like those other guys who got what they wanted.

I know my way of thinking is wrong and from an outsider's perspective I'm making a big deal of something that happened years ago, but I really am heartbroken and I worry this will prevent me from experiencing true joy. So, again, if anyone has any advice please let me know.

Thanks

It sounds to me that you have issues with sexuality. Too many "Licked cupcake" analogies can do that to a person. Staying in counseling sounds like good advice. Is your therapist LDS or treated LDS clients before? A counselor who has treated LDS members in the past is probably the best way to go.

[classylady]

Kirkko, there's no way for us on an internet site to really know what's happening. All we can do is offer a little advice on what we think might be going on based on what you've said and our own knowledge and life experience.

Many people are bothered by their spouse's past. I see that all the time on q and a forums on the internet. You are not alone in this. Much of the advice I read is to don't worry about it, your spouse chose you to marry. But, that offers little comfort. I married a divorced man, so I know somewhat of the struggles you are going through. Before you were married, you were naive, and didn't really realize how intimate and emotionally bonding the physical part of marriage is. Most people want to be their spouse's one and only. This is natural. And it is wonderful when that is the case. No one likes to think that they are being compared to someone else. You can get beyond all this. You need to trust and believe your spouse when she says she loves you. I doubt very much that she is comparing you to anyone in her past.

Another possible reason you may be having the struggle you have now, is low self-esteem. If you have high self-esteem, and can see your worth and value, your wife's past wouldn't matter as much. If you knew without a shadow of a doubt that your wife loves you, and only you, that you are absolutely number one in her life, many of your doubts would possibly go away. Another possibility, if your wife is not meeting your needs in the way you feel loved, and I'm not sure what your love language is, then you will probably have doubts about your relationship. Read the book "The Five Love Languages". Find out what you and your wife's love language is. If, for example, your love language is positive affirmations, and your wife doesn't give you those affirmations, you're not going to feel loved.

You need to talk to your wife about this. Don't go "mental" on her, but tell her what you need. Tell her of your doubts and fears. Let her know of your struggle. She may be able to set your mind at ease. It won't take away the past. Nothing will. But, it will help a great deal to know that she isn't comparing you to anyone in her past. It will help to be reassured that you are number one in her life. When she tells you that you are number one, and loved, then believe her. And take joy in that. If you still can't overcome your issues, then definitely go see a therapist.

Edited October 18, 2013 by classylady

[derblitzenator]

There was a talk given on this topic by Elder Holland. It is called "The Best is Yet to be" given in 2009 at a BYU devotional. Here's one quote:

I can’t tell you the number of couples I have counseled who, when they are deeply hurt or even just deeply stressed, reach farther and farther into the past to find yet a bigger brick to throw through the window “pain” of their marriage. When something is over and done with, when it has been repented of as fully as it can be repented of, when life has moved on as it should and a lot of other wonderfully good things have happened since then, it is not right to go back and open some ancient wound that the Son of God Himself died to heal.

Let people repent. Let people grow. Believe that people can change and improve. Is that faith? Yes! Is that hope? Yes! Is that charity? Yes! Above all, it is charity, the pure love of Christ. If something is buried in the past, leave it buried. Don’t keep going back with your little sand pail and beach shovel to dig it up, wave it around, and then throw it at someone, saying, “Hey! Do you remember this?” Splat!

And another one:

The proviso, of course, is that repentance has to be sincere, but when it is and when honest effort is being made to progress, we are guilty of the greater sin if we keep remembering and recalling and rebashing someone with his or her earlier mistakes...

It's a pretty good read if you can find it.

[Sali]

It sounds like at the start these thoughts spiraled you down into a depression. The trouble with that is once that depression hits, those thoughts become obsessive. (Think of a needle stuck in a groove on a record). A depressed mind finds it really difficult, if not impossible, to throw these type of thoughts out. Loudmouth Mormon is correct. The issue is no longer your wife's past, it is your depression. So continue seeing the Counselor, maybe look at some medication?

I know this because I have been stuck in these same cycles so many times during my years of on and off depression. That needle is so hard to throw out of the groove. Awareness of what is going on is the first step! Good luck on your journey and I will keep you in my prayers. I wish all the best for you.

[Kirkko]

Thanks! I have been trying what you mentioned and I feel forgotten. It just never goes away for me. I did serve in Finland.

[Backroads]

I agree, I believe there is a lot more going on with your moods and thoughts than your wife's past.

Even though Lakumi doesn't have the whole Church culture affecting him, he is right. Even within the Church and it's gospel-living members, you are going to have different levels of acceptance with past sins.

[warbunny]

Professional therapists will tell you you cannot just eliminate the thoughts and feelings...it is almost impossible.What you can do is replace them. It is called "guided imagery." When the bad thought,bad feeling comes, you recognize it, scream stop (psychically in your mind or soul), and replace it with a better thought or image.

That image is one which works for you...a song, a scripture,a thought, a slogan,a pleasant experience you can instantly remember which replaces the bad thought. They used to teach resuscitation of a person who wasn't breathing by saying"out goes the bad air,in comes the good."

Guided Imagery is poweful: I have a personal image which works for me in the situation you described: Best friend was about to (temple) marry a girl who had been very promiscuous (but repented). I said "I'd never be able to forgive her or forget He said "Bishop told her God forgave her and forgot ...You think you're better than God? That one question or phrase changed my life forever and made me tolerant and accepting. I often use that "guided image" to replace a bad thought or feeling. Another example, of a guided image which works for me as a retired warrior...when I feel road rage etc.I tell myself "this person is not the enemy, settle down."

There is a current re-birth or fad for a similar guided image used during WWII when the Germans were bombing Britain:Poster shouted the slogan "Keep Calm and Carry On."

[Finrock]

I did serve in Finland.

Awesome. I served in Finland also. From 1996 - 1998. What years did you serve?

Sorry for the diversion. :)

-Finrock

[guast]

There was a talk given on this topic by Elder Holland. It is called "The Best is Yet to be" given in 2009 at a BYU devotional. It's a pretty good read if you can find it.

It was called "Remember Lot's Wife" when he gave the talk at BYU. The abbreviated version in the Ensign is called "The Best is Yet To Be."

Link: Remember Lot's Wife

[Quin]

I wasn't a member in my youth.

Military hard drinking, easy loving, wild and raucous past.

My conversion got kicked up several levels.

Like beyond stake.

Which I'm only sharing, so that you understand that this was the way I loved.

I wasn't a member when I married my husband.

I never had a moment where I wanted to return to my wild days.

I. Chose. Him.

I was married to him for over 10 years.

I made vows.

I considered those vows long and hard... Because playing house WAS an option.

Because having an open relationship WAS an option.

I. Chose. Him.

Now... 10 years later, I also divorced him. Just as an FYI/ the whole truth.

He decided to start smacking me and our children around.

Aka totally unrelated to my libertine days.

I didn't even date for several years.

Not for lack of offers.

And, quite frankly, not out of lack of desire.

(ESP. After converting, talk about adding salt and lemon to an open wound. Single in the church is not an easy thing to do).

I was busy raising a young family on my own.

They needed my attention.

So I CHOSE not to.

This is my agency.

Your wife has agency.

She CHOSE you.

She's CHOOSING you.

Why do you keep second guessing her choice?

Is she giving you cause to suspect her of infidelity?

Or are you trying to take responsibility for that which is not yours to take?

Or ?

Q

[Kirkko]

Awesome. I served in Finland also. From 1996 - 1998. What years did you serve?

Sorry for the diversion. :)

-Finrock

1998-2000. Presidents Thompson and Johnson. I got to the country in Nov '98 and left Oct '00.

[Kirkko]

I wasn't a member in my youth.

Military hard drinking, easy loving, wild and raucous past.

My conversion got kicked up several levels.

Like beyond stake.

Which I'm only sharing, so that you understand that this was the way I loved.

I wasn't a member when I married my husband.

I never had a moment where I wanted to return to my wild days.

I. Chose. Him.

I was married to him for over 10 years.

I made vows.

I considered those vows long and hard... Because playing house WAS an option.

Because having an open relationship WAS an option.

I. Chose. Him.

Now... 10 years later, I also divorced him. Just as an FYI/ the whole truth.

He decided to start smacking me and our children around.

Aka totally unrelated to my libertine days.

I didn't even date for several years.

Not for lack of offers.

And, quite frankly, not out of lack of desire.

(ESP. After converting, talk about adding salt and lemon to an open wound. Single in the church is not an easy thing to do).

I was busy raising a young family on my own.

They needed my attention.

So I CHOSE not to.

This is my agency.

Your wife has agency.

She CHOSE you.

She's CHOOSING you.

Why do you keep second guessing her choice?

Is she giving you cause to suspect her of infidelity?

Or are you trying to take responsibility for that which is not yours to take?

Or ?

Q

Thank you for this. I know she loves me and I'm sure it's my low self-esteem that is causing me trouble. It's so much easier said than done, at least for me, to not wonder whether I'm being compared to them, whether she regrets marrying me. I worry that despite trying to keep images out of my mind and at times feeling overwhelmed I will be held accountable for not forgiving. It's just tough for me to know she has been with other people in ways that, according to the Church, are reseved for marriage.

[Lakumi]

I agree, I believe there is a lot more going on with your moods and thoughts than your wife's past.

Even though Lakumi doesn't have the whole Church culture affecting him, he is right. Even within the Church and it's gospel-living members, you are going to have different levels of acceptance with past sins.

thank you... nice to sometimes see a bit of kindness

I can't change who I am or how I think and believe. Maybe I am just not good enough in the end, I donno...

but that's me.

Do you think, down the road you can come to be fine with it?

ask yourself that

[Guest]

You say you know that your mind is working against your marriage when you start thinking of her past.

So, here's a suggestion.

The first second you start thinking of those things, start singing The Spirit of God like a fire is burning... at the top of your lungs. Belt it out, put your heart and lungs to it. If you're in the car, close the windows and belt it out... if you're at home and your wife and children are around, just let it out... if it's the middle of the night and everybody is sleeping, go to the bathroom, close the doors and belt it out. If you're in the office... erm... sing out out loud in your head.

SING IT! SING IT! I love that hymn. It's my Tylenol to bad thoughts.

[Quin]

Obviously... There is no simple fix, for you, as even an aha! moment will be coming on top of über-struggle for years.

That said

1) Have you heard this definition of forgiveness?

Forgiveness is giving up all hope...

For a better past.

It's a lot easier said than done.

Most simple things are.

But I like it.

It does NOT mean agreeing with the choices, etc.

it just purely and simply is a way of letting go and moving forward.

Because the past isn't going to change.

No amount of pain, denial. etc. will rewrite history.

Once one stops agonizing over wanting a different past

It allows one to live in the present, and plan for the future...

Instead of being gutted over things that cannot be changed.

Similar to the Serenity Prayer:

Heavenly Father grant me the serenity

To accept the things I cannot change

The courage to change the things I should

And the wisdom to know the difference.

2) On the other side of the coin ENTIRELY

Is the distinct possibility that you're unable to forgive, because there is NOTHING to forgive.

That no matter how hard you pray over it, the deafening silence or conflicting PR, is that it isn't yours.

I do this.

I like to make things "my fault" or "my responsibility".

LESS codependency (which is what it can look like)

And waaaaaay MORE control freak

Because if its "my fault" then I can FIX it.

So I can practice coDep stuff till the cows come home

And it won't do a lock of good

Because that's not my problem

The problem, for me, is that I've taken ownership of something that doesn't belong to me.

Emotional theft, as it were.

And it stays unresolved, no matter HOW hard I work

Because its not mine.

I can't fix something that is not in my purview

(Ahem. 'Wisdom to know the difference" comes up rather a lot in my life)

3) I suggest changing meds &/or therapists.

If you've been working with this one with no resolution

Or have been taking meds that AREN'T clarifying your thoughts, but instead leaving you stuck

... Then it seems past time to either reset your neurochem (not all meds work for everyone, and while some meds are great in the short term, they allow no long term growth, and those same meds that are great long term do diddly in the short term, or even make things worse.)

Because if you're on the wrong meds,

Or are getting counsel that is prolonging things or making things worse

It doesn't matter how hard you're working

That brick wall won't change no matter how many times you bash your head on it

(NOTE: I am NOT saying quit meds/therapy. Which people sometimes hear when a person says 'consider reevaluating'. Quitting meds and therapy can be like dropping the shirt that isn't working as an oven mit and use your bare hand, INSTEAD of drop the shirt and find an oven mitt. Or thick towel. Or something, anything better than the shirt! NOT bare skin.)

All my best!

Q

[Gel182]

Just know that you're not the only one dealing with this. My situation is nearly identical - 4 kids, 12 years of marriage, wonderful life, haunted by my wife's past with 2 previous partners. My wife is amazing and nobody would ever guess that I struggle with this so badly, but as so many people have mentioned...you need to get help. I know I've forgiven my wife, she's been forgiven, heck...I've even forgiven the other guys. That doesn't ever take the dagger out of your heart when certain things are mentioned in church, television, or life in general, and that's where you need help. I made the mistake of trying to work this out on my own for years. It caused me to struggle with my testimony, and yes, even suicidal thoughts. These thoughts eventually become obsessive and that's where professional help and possible medication are needed. It can put your mind in the right place to allow the Spirit to do its work and let the Atonement heal you too. Again, it's easier said than done - I still struggle from time to time. What's all the more difficult are the answers from people that don't understand where you're coming from. In the church, especially, you're taught to abstain from sexual intimacy before marriage - period. What happens when you do just that but reap the repurcussions of your beloved spouse's poor decisions? That's where I struggled. I ended up with an STD about 5 months after we were married (it takes that long to show up) and it was obvious what was going on because I'd never broken the Law of Chastity. It broke my heart and still does. I have physical scars to combine with mental, emotional, and spritual. Get professional help - it'll be OK. If she's stuck it out (like my wife) while you've struggled so badly, then she loves you and will help you through this.

[Kirkko]

Just know that you're not the only one dealing with this. My situation is nearly identical - 4 kids, 12 years of marriage, wonderful life, haunted by my wife's past with 2 previous partners. My wife is amazing and nobody would ever guess that I struggle with this so badly, but as so many people have mentioned...you need to get help. I know I've forgiven my wife, she's been forgiven, heck...I've even forgiven the other guys. That doesn't ever take the dagger out of your heart when certain things are mentioned in church, television, or life in general, and that's where you need help. I made the mistake of trying to work this out on my own for years. It caused me to struggle with my testimony, and yes, even suicidal thoughts. These thoughts eventually become obsessive and that's where professional help and possible medication are needed. It can put your mind in the right place to allow the Spirit to do its work and let the Atonement heal you too. Again, it's easier said than done - I still struggle from time to time. What's all the more difficult are the answers from people that don't understand where you're coming from. In the church, especially, you're taught to abstain from sexual intimacy before marriage - period. What happens when you do just that but reap the repurcussions of your beloved spouse's poor decisions? That's where I struggled. I ended up with an STD about 5 months after we were married (it takes that long to show up) and it was obvious what was going on because I'd never broken the Law of Chastity. It broke my heart and still does. I have physical scars to combine with mental, emotional, and spritual. Get professional help - it'll be OK. If she's stuck it out (like my wife) while you've struggled so badly, then she loves you and will help you through this.

Thank you for this. It sounds like you and I are in very similar situations. If you don't mind me asking, did you find a counselor through the Church or outside the Church? If you were on meds what were/are you on? Right now I see someone who is not a member and I think it is difficult for her to understand where I am coming from. I take Prozac and Wellbutrin, but I wonder if the effects are wearing off. For me, I like to think I have forgiven her and the other guys, but, like you said, the thoughts become obsessive and I literally picture my wife with other guys. It is heartbreaking, first, because I don't know her as that girl and second, it's not something that is pleasant to have go through my mind. I struggled with this when we were dating and even spoke to my bishop. I love her and loved her then and I didn't want to lose her because I was too weak/prideful etc. to forgive and get over her past. I know she loves me because she wouldn't still be with me, but I really do worry that she may compare me with them and wonder whether life would be better with them rather than me.