How do you forgive?

[Kirkko]

I have realized over the past few months that I never really learned to forgive. I'm not talking about little things like getting cut off in traffic, but things that really affect me. I always thought I could forgive and get over things, but I've realized there are a couple of things in my life that happened in the past that I haven't completely gotten over. If I ever think about one of these issues negative feelings come into my heart and mind, which tells me I haven't completely forgiven. At times I get sick to my stomach about it. How do you forgive and make it so issues don't bother you if they come up?

[Quin]

The best way I know how:

"Giving up all hope for a better past."

Q

[pam]

I would think that you would want hope for a better past. Not give up all hope.

[beefche]

I honestly don't know what it means to forgive. I have a situation that happened a few years ago from a loved one that hurt me deeply. I believe I have forgiven her. I don't wish bad things for her, I want good things for her. I don't want revenge, I want her to be happy. But, that situation stills hurts me today. I haven't forgotten it, although I don't think of it very often. So, does this mean I've forgiven her? I think it does. I don't think forgiving someone means to forget anything about the situation. But, I think it means that you don't dwell on the bad, don't wish for bad things to the person, and actually consider them a child of God who deserves His love.

[Guest]

Pray for help, and pray some more. Pray for peace and pray for the Savior to take the burden from you.

Don't abandon boundaries that protect you from being hurt by that person again, but let go, by which I mean don't let the hurt define you, look at all you are and have outside of that pain, and look to the future.

It's so hard. It's something I'm working on all the time.

[Dravin]

Have you sought out the atonement of Jesus Christ in order to find peace and healing? We tend to often think of the atonement as white out for sins we've committed but it is much broader than that (See Alma 7:11 for example).

[Guest]

I honestly don't know what it means to forgive. I have a situation that happened a few years ago from a loved one that hurt me deeply. I believe I have forgiven her. I don't wish bad things for her, I want good things for her. I don't want revenge, I want her to be happy. But, that situation stills hurts me today. I haven't forgotten it, although I don't think of it very often. So, does this mean I've forgiven her? I think it does. I don't think forgiving someone means to forget anything about the situation. But, I think it means that you don't dwell on the bad, don't wish for bad things to the person, and actually consider them a child of God who deserves His love.

A big part of this for me was trying to stop wishing to see justice come to this person. (This would be different if I was talking about illegal activity that needed to be reported). I had to stop hoping they'd be hurt like they hurt me, or stop hoping that they would intimately understand the pain they'd caused me and feel horrible for it. The only way to do that is to hand it over to the Savior, with faith that He will exercise perfect justice and mercy, and that I, too, have hurt people and hope for His mercy.

[Quin]

I would think that you would want hope for a better past. Not give up all hope.

You can't change the past.

Hoping for a better past = resentment, bitterness, anger, suffering.

It's a Buddhist saying; giving up all hope for a better past.

That I learned as a child in Asia.

Doesn't mean giving up hope for a better present/future!

(Despite my avowed war on hope in general this isn't part of it, promise!)

To take things to Disney (Lion King!):

Events from the past can hurt (like a baboon wacking you in the head with a stick)

Forgiveness, in this sense, isn't saying that it doesn't.

Nor that it's okay to do those things.

Giving up hope for a better past is NOT going to "If the baboon hadnt hit me ..." (My husband hadnt cheated, my mom had loved me more, I was born wealthy like so & so, my boss chose me instead of him, if Id made the team, we didnt lose the house, if she had said yes to my marraige proposal, if he hadnt, they had, we didnt, etc.).

Q

[Vort]

I would think that you would want hope for a better past. Not give up all hope.

The past is unchangeable. Often, we want someone to go back and undo the evil they did. But they can't, and we can't forgive them until we get over demanding that they perform the impossible by undoing their bad deeds. That's the meaning of Quin's idea, at least as I understand it.

[pam]

Thanks. I took the quote in a different way. Just different perception of it. :)

[FarmerMom]

I have had a hard time with forgiveness as well. I've prayed a lot-set boundaries so there aren't repeats of issues. Prayed and prayed and in time it does get better.

[NeuroTypical]

It's important to understand what forgiveness means and what it doesn't mean. Forgiveness does not mean forgetting, or being a doormat, or ignoring known dangers, or exposing kids to sources of harm.

In some situations, there can be a bit of "you're someone else's problem now" in forgiveness.

[Traveler]

It's important to understand what forgiveness means and what it doesn't mean. Forgiveness does not mean forgetting, or being a doormat, or ignoring known dangers, or exposing kids to sources of harm.

In some situations, there can be a bit of "you're someone else's problem now" in forgiveness.

I agree with your first statement but from then on - I am not so sure. Forgetting, I believe, is very much a crucial element of forgiveness. For example - Forgetting the pain, forgetting the sorrow, forgetting the anger, forgetting the bitterness, forgetting the hate and a great many other "things" or feelings associated with being "wronged". There is wisdom from G-d that "remembers no more" our sins.

I think, what you may be trying to say in reference to being a door mat is that we never become enablers. But this is always true and does not matter at all what is in someone's past. We ought to be vigilant and listen to the spirit concerning trust of anyone. At the same time we ought to understand that a recovering alcoholic should not be placed in positions of compromise - and neither should the individual that has never tasted alcohol.

The Traveler

[applepansy]

Forgetting is part of forgiveness. It takes a long time and it also takes no repeat offences. When hurtful behavior keeps happening its hard to forgive. Boundaries help.

Forgive means to stop feeling angry or resentful. When you realize you're no longer angry or resentful about something then you've forgiven the person who did the harm. That doesn't mean you put yourself in a position to be hurt again if you think the person hasn't changed.

I have forgiven my ex-sister-in-law but I will never knowingly put myself where she might be. I most definitely will never allow a child to be around her, if I have any say. But, I don't resent her and I'm no longer angry. I don't wish bad things for her. I do still get sad when I think of all the harm she's done.

[Praetorian_Brow]

I do not believe forgetting is part of the process, as lessons are learned and trust abused. Those experiences and feelings are personal and cannot be taken away. I used to believe that I hadn't forgiven until I forgot, so when I always remembered, I thought I hadn't forgiven. Not so. I believe the intention of forgetting, is to say that we will not burden another with our interpretation of their mistakes, recognized or not.

I also used to believe that forgiveness was only attainable when the other person was amenable or willing to speak to me, but not so, as forgiveness is a personal choice that has nothing to do with anyone else. Learning to trust, is another process, that can start with forgiving, but is not necessarily apart of the forgiveness process.

Forgiveness is just the atonement process applied. I really struggle to forgive myself and I suppose that is why I appear bitter, as believe me, I forgive others more than I forgive myself. Then again, if we treat others as we treat ourselves, then who is to say I understand how to forgive.

[applepansy]

I do not believe forgetting is part of the process, as lessons are learned and trust abused. Those experiences and feelings are personal and cannot be taken away. I used to believe that I hadn't forgiven until I forgot, so when I always remembered, I thought I hadn't forgiven. Not so. I believe the intention of forgetting, is to say that we will not burden another with our interpretation of their mistakes, recognized or not.

I also used to believe that forgiveness was only attainable when the other person was amenable or willing to speak to me, but not so, as forgiveness is a personal choice that has nothing to do with anyone else. Learning to trust, is another process, that can start with forgiving, but is not necessarily apart of the forgiveness process.

Forgiveness is just the atonement process applied. I really struggle to forgive myself and I suppose that is why I appear bitter, as believe me, I forgive others more than I forgive myself. Then again, if we treat others as we treat ourselves, then who is to say I understand how to forgive.

You can forgive and still remember, but with time the atonement helps you forget. I was surprised when I realized I had forgotten something. I remembered there was a problem at one time but I didn't remember the details until my husband reminded me. LOL Then I had to forget again.

[NeuroTypical]

Forgetting is part of forgiveness.

...

I have forgiven my ex-sister-in-law but I will never knowingly put myself where she might be. I most definitely will never allow a child to be around her, if I have any say.

Please allow me to argue a little here - I'm not understanding. If you've forgiven your ex-SIL, and forgetting is part of forgiveness, then how come you keep away from her and keep kids away from her? It's almost like you remember something about her actions that give you reason to protect yourself and innocents within your stewardship...

Shouldn't you just forget what she did, and send the kiddos her way?

[NeuroTypical]

Here's my opinion on the matter, written down many years ago:

I have much stuff to say about forgiveness. From a thread long, long ago on a message board far, far away - August 2005:

I am occasionally berated by relatives: "How can you claim you've forgiven so-and-so, when you don't let them babysit your kids? Don't you believe families can be together forever? You need to get over the past, so we can be a strong family again."

It seems to me like what forgiveness is and what it is not can sometimes be confusing. Forgiveness is not:

* Something that hinges on someone else's repentance.

* Turning a blind eye towards evil.

* Refusal to protect yourself or those in your care from harm or abuse.

* Sheltering others from the consequences of their actions.

I hear quite often things like "Oh, that's just the way he is. I've forgiven him." I've witnessed this attitude from people who seem content to tolerate any number of sins from alcoholism to child abuse.

Also, I've met my share of parents who attempt to shelter their children from consequenses to serious misdeeds with the attitude "Well, he 'repented', and I've forgiven him." Therefore, he doesn't need to go to jail for armed robbery, or there's no need to enroll him in drug rehab, or it's fine to continue to let her boyfriend live with them. That's not forgiveness, that's more like weakness, gullibility, cowardice, misplaced guilt, or some such thing.

Forgiveness is truly a beautiful thing. I've personally had the opportunity and challenge to forgive manipulative and self-absorbed parents, a rapist, pedophiles, and incestuous siblings. I can wholeheartedly support the principle of forgiveness as instituted by God for the betterment of His children. In forgiving these people, I found roadblocks to my own spiritual progress removed. I have been able to bless the lives of my wife and children by forgiving these people, and unloading all the baggage I would otherwise be carrying. My heart and soul feels clean - free of grudges, desires for vengence, misplaced guilt, etc.

But at the same time, I have a duty to my own children to shelter them from known sources of serious harm, and half of these people are still out there being up to no good.

How do you fully forgive someone when you know they will offend again and again?

It's an understandable question. One thing that helped me was the intellectual understanding that the offender is loved by God, even though they did what they did. I worked at understanding how God could do that. I worked at understanding the lives of those who offended me, and how they might have come to such a state. I cultivated a feeling of tenderness towards their griefs and stresses. (In no way did that justify their offenses, it just helped me understand them better.)

Another thing that helped me was the understanding that I don't know what is in someone's heart. I can't write their destinies and say I know they will offend again. I can only predict future behavior based on past behavior and current expressed attitudes.

It can indeed be difficult to forgive - especially in situations where the offender wasn't caught, hasn't faced any negative consequences, seems to be enjoying the fruits of their offense, or continues to offend others. Learning to accept these people as your neighbors, and loving them with your best approximation of how God loves them can seem almost impossible.

But forgiveness really has nothing to do with the other person at all. It's an internal process that cleanses you of feelings that take you further away from the pure love of Christ.

But would you keep your distance though as you know that they would do the same thing again and again because that way you don't get hurt again or be a sucker to their sins?

If someone seems to like hitting me with bricks, and just yesterday he did it, of course I'm going to stay away from him. After all, he might hit me with a brick! Nothing good ever came from getting hit with a brick just because someone likes it.

I'm not interested in standing around him so he can work on hitting a little less each day. It doesn't matter if he says he's sorry after he hits me with a brick. The fact that he got hit with bricks as a kid doesn't change my mind. It doesn't matter that apart from this brick hitting thing, he's a good buddy. I don't want to get hit with a brick, and there's no good reason why I should.

So I avoid this person.

Now, if I hear that the person has joined "brick hitters anonymous", and he's gone a year without hitting anyone with a brick, and he and I can have lunch at a crowded McDonalds without any bricks appearing - then I might re-evaluate my position. But not until then.

I've found this line of reasoning applies to friends, boy/girlfriends, spouses, parents, in-laws, aquaintences, people at work, people at church, and just about any other human being for that matter.

So how do you know that you've really forgiven them?

I tried to explain it a little before - Learning to accept these people as your neighbors, and loving them with your best approximation of how God loves them. I said my heart and soul feels clean - free of grudges, desires for vengence, misplaced guilt, etc.

But the more I think about it, I know I have forgiven these people because I am truly able to love them like I know God loves me.

Kind of the catharctic moment in my life was when I got on my knees and was finally able to pray for the person that raped someone I dearly loved. I tried, but couldn't do it for a number of months. I kept wanting to pray that the law would find him. That he would understand the pain he had caused. That the rest of us could be protected from him. Those were all fine things to pray for, but I hadn't forgiven him, and I wanted God to do something to him to give justice.

I knew I had forgiven him when I was able to pray that he could find happiness and rest in God. When I examined my heart, and found tenderness for him there, and sorrow that he was taking himself away from God - that's when I knew I had forgiven.

If I should ever see him again, I would protect my family from him. But I've forgiven him.

[applepansy]

Please allow me to argue a little here - I'm not understanding. If you've forgiven your ex-SIL, and forgetting is part of forgiveness, then how come you keep away from her and keep kids away from her? It's almost like you remember something about her actions that give you reason to protect yourself and innocents within your stewardship...

Shouldn't you just forget what she did, and send the kiddos her way?

Because that's not the offence I've forgotten yet.

[pam]

I have always like this quote:

Forgiveness does not mean forgetting, but forgiveness changes the way we remember. - Henri J. M. Nouwen

[BigFatAl]

The moment in time when you remember what people did to, but decide not to let their transgressions feel like a massive weight on your shoulders. Things happened to me in the past and things will always happen to me, the difference is that I no longer let myself carry it around.

[Kirkko]

The moment in time when you remember what people did to, but decide not to let their transgressions feel like a massive weight on your shoulders. Things happened to me in the past and things will always happen to me, the difference is that I no longer let myself carry it around.

My question is how do you do this? How do you let go and not allow it to affect you anymore? I feel like I've been trying and will make progress only to regress to the same feelings I had before.

[Quin]

I'm not quite eidetic... But I rarely forget anything.

All the way back to being 2ish.

I remember the crippling embarrassment of having my mum mad at me, I remember how it felt to skin my knees rough my tights. Even back when I was drinking like a lord, every single moment of the night, is completely etched in my mind. Never did the blackout thing, or the I was drunk/didn't know what iwas doing thing.

The difference, as time passes AND things change, is as PB, LMM, & Pam say.

I don't forget.

I change, based on my experiences & my reactions to them, and with those changes are how I feel when remembering them.

Q

[drham3rd]

I think that forgetting is difficult mainly because in many instances the memory is being used as an internal lesson! In some situations, we learn that action A may result in being hurt therefore we remember the hurt a little so that we can learn to avoid the situation! If that makes any sense...

[Dravin]

Personally, I'm not a fan of the phrase, "Forgive and forget." The closest that comes to the top of my head, scriptural speaking, is the Lord's reassurances that he'll remember sins no more and Alma talking about not remembering his pain from his past sins. I'm inclined to view the Lord's statements metaphorically, just like how I can tell someone who owes me a debt, "You own me no debt, it is forgotten." It isn't talking about the actual removal of memory, that literally the Lord cannot recall the past. Instead it is a reassurance that his forgiveness is complete.

Now, I understand the idea behind "Forgive and forget", you don't want what someone has done to you to be a raw nerve that looms in your consciousness, you want it to be forgotten and in the past, not something you bludgeon them with or use as a dam against goodwill in your own mind. Personally I'd phrase it as, "Forgive and don't grudge." or even better, "Forgive and love." You loose the alliteration but I think it communicates, in my mind, what forgiveness actually brings to pass. Now as far as being in pain over past wrongs against us, or even past wrongs we have committed, that is, like I previously mentioned, what the atonement is for. For when Alma says this:

19 And now, behold, when I thought this, I could remember my pains no more; yea, I was harrowed up by the memory of my sins no more.

It is because of what happens in the preceding verses:

17 And it came to pass that as I was thus racked with torment, while I was harrowed up by the memory of my many sins, behold, I remembered also to have heard my father prophesy unto the people concerning the coming of one Jesus Christ, a Son of God, to atone for the sins of the world.

18 Now, as my mind caught hold upon this thought, I cried within my heart: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death.

Now Alma's experience is of serious transgression, not so much having trouble with healing over past wrongs perpetrated against him, but the principle is the same. His sorrow and pain was immense but it was through the atonement that he was healed and his pain replaced with joy. And I feel compelled to point out that he obviously literally remembers his pain as he explains it to Helaman. I don't think Alma would have ever forgotten what he was forgiven of, he would no longer feel the pain (though obviously remember having experienced it), he would be at peace with his past, but to literally forget his past sins and his past pain would have denied him gratitude for what the Savior wrought in him and that's something I have trouble seeing.

P.S. I don't want to be taken as arguing that love, or not grudging, means snuggling back up to someone with their hand raised to strike you. Indeed, that protecting yourself in such situations requires remembering and acting on the past behavior of others is part of why I don't like "forgive and forget" if one is going to take it to Literaltown.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Dravin