Missions and obesity

[Suzie]

Secondly, are there any limitations on mental health? I would think someone's mental health could also cause problems while out in the field.

Yes, there is. I know for a fact that people with Aspergers or High Functioning autism are exempt from serving a full time mission. I know two members with Aspergers one is a college professor and the other has a degree in law. They both served a full-time mission when they did not have that limitation and both reported that their mission was a nightmare, they did not enjoy it at all. Anyone who is familiar with Aspergers would perfectly understand why.

I am grateful the Church made that sensitive change and instead has local/serving missions for our members with disabilities.

[pam]

Gramps just answered a question a day or so ago from a young woman who couldn't serve due to mental health issues:

http://www.askgramps.org/17370/can-trust-god-plan

[MarginOfError]

I think we need to be careful about saying things like "if this policy is affecting your testimony then it must not be very strong." Such comments are inaccurate at best and insulting at worst. Keep in mind that this is a young man and who expressed noble intentions to fulfill a long term goal of serving The Lord in a highly visible and culturally cherished calling. I have no doubt that he was every bit the equal of his peers in the true measures of conversion.

And then in one awkward letter, that dream of service was ripped away from him. In addition, the stigma he has lived with from his physical appearance has been solidified by the very Church he wished to serve. There is sadness and embarrassment that he and his family must now bear. Why must it be so hard to understand that this young man, his family, and others who have shared their experience would respond with the same defensiveness against the Institution as we would expect and encourage them to exhibit against individuals.

No, these actions are not evidence of a weak testimony. They are evidence of legitimate pain and suffering from the pure in heart. This is not a time for rebuke; it is a time for embracing. We cannot possibly help people heal from their wounds if we insist on invalidating their pain.

[skippy740]

Yes, pain and suffering, I can understand. Taking it out against church leaders and questioning their decisions... is not appropriate.

I'm not much of a coddler online... particularly when someone (member or otherwise) is lashing out against the Church.

Pain and anger is okay. How we express it and look to solve it... is really what's involved here.

She is acting like an angry mother who feels that her son was wronged. She's ready to go to war against the Church if she doesn't get her way for her son. This is unacceptable. She's wanting to take her anger and frustration out on the entire church. In extreme cases, this is the beginning of the seeds of apostasy.

Either we support the brethren and our Church Leaders' inspiration... or we don't.

Either we find ways to turn adversity into growth... or we let it poison our souls and allow ourselves to become bitter.

Nearly every poster is talking about positive ways to turn the situation around for this poster and how to make the best of it. This is where she needs to focus... because the Church won't instantly change their mind about the eligibility of her son to serve in missionary service.

[Wingnut]

its the jerks like you that drive people away from the church, its a shame that you are so shallow maybe you should not be so judgemental andpratice what you preach

Well that's a good way to win people over to your point of view.

[estradling75]

Several years ago President Hinckley called upon both the leaders and the members to up the quality of the missionary that were being sent out. While it had always been the case that the missionaries needed be physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually fit to serve, President Hinckley tightened the standard for all missionaries.

Now your son was denied because he was deemed physically unfit. Had it been any other treatable medical condition you and your son would have responded with 'lets get this fixed' so he could go. You would not have taken a medical concern as some judgment against your sons character or worthiness. So don't presume that the Missionary Medical has fallen into trap of society of saying your son is worthless because his BMI. While it is understandable you might think they are saying that it is really very uncharitable of you to judge them in such away. Assume they responded the same way they would to any other medical concern, and you and your son need to do the same.

Now you and your son have many options on how to respond and move forward... Allowing your feelings of hurt and pain to drive you away is one, but not recommended. Other forms of service have been mentioned and that is good but I would like to point out that (assuming your son is on the younger end of the missionary age limits) that your son serving a Full-time mission isn't completely out of the question yet. They have given you an area of concern. As with any other area of concern if it is addressed the missionary can resubmit showing it having been dealt with.

Your son needs to resolve the Missionary Medical team's concern that your son can handle the physical demands of missionary work. So get him walking or riding a bike several miles a day. If after 3 or 6 months he can document the ability to walk or ride a bike 10 plus miles a day, day in and day out with no problems. It should show that he is capable of handling the physical demands no matter what his BMI might be. (of course such a exercise program is likely to bring down his BMI as well so that is a double win)

This would be hard and it might even be a profound lifestyle adjustment for your son, but missionary work is all about asking people to make profound lifestyle adjustments. Should your son sacrifice and accomplish this, he stands to have great blessings and power as he serves others as a missionary.

[Backroads]

Note: I believe the OP is male.

[missmollymormon]

Maybe he needs to work with the lord and not against him on this one. Weight can be hard to lose, but its not impossible. And where there is the atonement, there is possibility to achieve anything. Obesity can lead to really complicated health problems, do you really want your son in the mission field in that physically vulnerable state? Ps, I dont approve of calling any member here a 'jerk'

[HoplessMarriageReject]

There's a difference between being healthy & just overweight and being unhealthy & obese.

Yes, I bet if we did a study, we might find insignificant differences between the performances of normal and overweight missionaries, but I bet we would see differences if we factored in true medical obesity.

The reason these prospective missionaries fell away is due to not only the possible treatment of members around them, but their own weak testimonies.

How judgmental of you to say that. Also, some people struggle with obesity due to genetic and hormonal factors (hypothyroidism, goiters, Hashimoto's, Cushings, etc), lead very active lives and eat healthy, yet are still obese! Have you not considered that?

[HoplessMarriageReject]

After 6 posts, you are judgmental against the entire missionary program and the standards set for a young man to be eligible for missionary service. Because it doesn't meet with your standards, you are ready to pounce and go to war with anyone that doesn't agree or sympathize with you.

In fact, you're EXPANDING your criticisms to include how ALL overweight or disabled people who are unable to serve are being 'discriminated' against.

I suppose we should've started out by asking "Do you want sympathy or advice?"

For sympathy: "There, there, dear. It'll be okay."

There has been plenty of advice given in this thread. I recommend trying to find the higher road for you and your son. It's the more emotionally mature road to go.

Skippy, I think it is you that is being judgmental. I don't blame her one bit for how she feels. That policy is pure nonsense in opinion, it is simply about image. And who are you to say that her son doesn't meet the standards to serve a mission? So are you now saying that those with medical conditions (which may be causing their obesity) that have no affect on their ability to serve aren't meeting the standards? This is ridiculous. Actually, I'll join her in judging these new set criteria by the church for missionary service. I think they are about image and I think they are wrong and discriminatory. I think they reflect an attitude of ignorance (one that you share with them BTW) and will drive some away from the church eventually.

[skippy740]

My father is a convert to the church. He applied for missionary service back in the early 70's. He was declined due to his vision (legally blind) and his epilepsy. Could he have served? I think so. But he accepted the decision.

This is NOT about image. It is about the safety of each missionary and in not being an unreasonable burden on companions and the work.

[HoplessMarriageReject]

I think we need to be careful about saying things like "if this policy is affecting your testimony then it must not be very strong." Such comments are inaccurate at best and insulting at worst. Keep in mind that this is a young man and who expressed noble intentions to fulfill a long term goal of serving The Lord in a highly visible and culturally cherished calling. I have no doubt that he was every bit the equal of his peers in the true measures of conversion.

And then in one awkward letter, that dream of service was ripped away from him. In addition, the stigma he has lived with from his physical appearance has been solidified by the very Church he wished to serve. There is sadness and embarrassment that he and his family must now bear. Why must it be so hard to understand that this young man, his family, and others who have shared their experience would respond with the same defensiveness against the Institution as we would expect and encourage them to exhibit against individuals.

No, these actions are not evidence of a weak testimony. They are evidence of legitimate pain and suffering from the pure in heart. This is not a time for rebuke; it is a time for embracing. We cannot possibly help people heal from their wounds if we insist on invalidating their pain.

Yes, and aside from the stigma of bad assumptions from people assuming why you are obese, they not being allowed to serve a mission will now find it hard to get a date because women in the church are taught to only date RMs (as a means to pressure the men to go on missions). Some or many women wouldn't date a non-RM. So now this poor guy has to deal with this.

[HoplessMarriageReject]

Yes, pain and suffering, I can understand. Taking it out against church leaders and questioning their decisions... is not appropriate.

I'm not much of a coddler online... particularly when someone (member or otherwise) is lashing out against the Church.

Pain and anger is okay. How we express it and look to solve it... is really what's involved here.

She is acting like an angry mother who feels that her son was wronged. She's ready to go to war against the Church if she doesn't get her way for her son. This is unacceptable. She's wanting to take her anger and frustration out on the entire church. In extreme cases, this is the beginning of the seeds of apostasy.

Either we support the brethren and our Church Leaders' inspiration... or we don't.

Either we find ways to turn adversity into growth... or we let it poison our souls and allow ourselves to become bitter.

Nearly every poster is talking about positive ways to turn the situation around for this poster and how to make the best of it. This is where she needs to focus... because the Church won't instantly change their mind about the eligibility of her son to serve in missionary service.

It IS appropriate in this situation.

You need to get over yourself.

I see nothing wrong with how they have expressed their pain and frustration

How are you to judge Skippy?

I don't always agree with the leaders. In fact, knowing they are human I am aware that they make mistakes and errors. No sense in supporting something you feel is wrong.

This isn't some faith-promoting experience that encourages growth Skippy.

[skippy740]

Yes, and aside from the stigma of bad assumptions from people assuming why you are obese, they not being allowed to serve a mission will now find it hard to get a date because women in the church are taught to only date RMs (as a means to pressure the men to go on missions). Some or many women wouldn't date a non-RM. So now this poor guy has to deal with this.

Wow. Talk about judgmental. You think that every single LDS young woman is ONLY going to date RMs?

Young women are encouraged to date RMs, but not to pressure young men. And if young men can't handle that pressure BEFORE going on their mission, I don't think they could handle the actual missionary work itself.

I waited until I was 21 to serve. Until then, I wore a black long-sleeve shirt to church as a way to say "I'm here against my will, don't talk to me about a mission." My Bishop at the time? He was a returned mission president.

Who do you think had me in his sights? Him. And I held everyone off until I was ready and willing.

If a young man can't handle a little peer pressure, then he's going to be coddled for the rest of his life.

What kind of men are we raising in the Church who can't think for themselves???

What kind of young women are we raising in the Church who can't choose a date or a future spouse only on their "missionary status"?

Talk about closed minded.

Edited January 29, 2014 by skippy740

[skippy740]

It IS appropriate in this situation.

You need to get over yourself.

I see nothing wrong with how they have expressed their pain and frustration

How are you to judge Skippy?

I don't always agree with the leaders. In fact, knowing they are human I am aware that they make mistakes and errors. No sense in supporting something you feel is wrong.

This isn't some faith-promoting experience that encourages growth Skippy.

You said this:

So are you now saying that those with medical conditions (which may be causing their obesity) that have no affect on their ability to serve aren't meeting the standards? This is ridiculous.

I gave a personal example.

Now, who are you to judge which disabilities "meet the standard" and which ones don't???

[HoplessMarriageReject]

Several years ago President Hinckley called upon both the leaders and the members to up the quality of the missionary that were being sent out. While it had always been the case that the missionaries needed be physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually fit to serve, President Hinckley tightened the standard for all missionaries.

Now your son was denied because he was deemed physically unfit. Had it been any other treatable medical condition you and your son would have responded with 'lets get this fixed' so he could go. You would not have taken a medical concern as some judgment against your sons character or worthiness. So don't presume that the Missionary Medical has fallen into trap of society of saying your son is worthless because his BMI. While it is understandable you might think they are saying that it is really very uncharitable of you to judge them in such away. Assume they responded the same way they would to any other medical concern, and you and your son need to do the same.

Now you and your son have many options on how to respond and move forward... Allowing your feelings of hurt and pain to drive you away is one, but not recommended. Other forms of service have been mentioned and that is good but I would like to point out that (assuming your son is on the younger end of the missionary age limits) that your son serving a Full-time mission isn't completely out of the question yet. They have given you an area of concern. As with any other area of concern if it is addressed the missionary can resubmit showing it having been dealt with.

Your son needs to resolve the Missionary Medical team's concern that your son can handle the physical demands of missionary work. So get him walking or riding a bike several miles a day. If after 3 or 6 months he can document the ability to walk or ride a bike 10 plus miles a day, day in and day out with no problems. It should show that he is capable of handling the physical demands no matter what his BMI might be. (of course such a exercise program is likely to bring down his BMI as well so that is a double win)

This would be hard and it might even be a profound lifestyle adjustment for your son, but missionary work is all about asking people to make profound lifestyle adjustments. Should your son sacrifice and accomplish this, he stands to have great blessings and power as he serves others as a missionary.

So you are pretty much saying that only slimmer people are worthy to serve and those with medical conditions that likely cause their obesity, something that has no bearing on their ability to serve rules them out as worthy or meeting this standard? What a joke. This post just reeks of ignorance. Do you know how many people are overweight and not by a little yet perform physically as well as their skinny counterparts? You are essentually stating that her son isn't of high enough quality to serve. How is he physically unfit if his doctor cleared him?

[HoplessMarriageReject]

Maybe he needs to work with the lord and not against him on this one. Weight can be hard to lose, but its not impossible. And where there is the atonement, there is possibility to achieve anything. Obesity can lead to really complicated health problems, do you really want your son in the mission field in that physically vulnerable state? Ps, I dont approve of calling any member here a 'jerk'

But here is the thing. This policy, ISN"T inspired of the Lord. For some, they can lose the weight, for others, nothing short of dangerous diets and gastric bypass works. Do you have any idea how little diet and exercise affects the BMI of these medically obese people compared to their hormonal factors? Sister, there is alot more in play than simply eat right and exercise, a TON at play. Hypothyroidism is a prime example. It runs in my family. My great grandmother had it and was obese at a time when you almost never saw any obese people around. Skinny people (who like to throw out their assumptions they pass off as truth) have no concept or inkling of what is involved.

[HoplessMarriageReject]

My father is a convert to the church. He applied for missionary service back in the early 70's. He was declined due to his vision (legally blind) and his epilepsy. Could he have served? I think so. But he accepted the decision.

This is NOT about image. It is about the safety of each missionary and in not being an unreasonable burden on companions and the work.

No, its about image for the church. Epilepsy and blindness are much different.

[skippy740]

But here is the thing. This policy, ISN"T inspired of the Lord.

Based on what?

[HoplessMarriageReject]

Wow. Talk about judgmental. You think that every single LDS young woman is ONLY going to date RMs?

Young women are encouraged to date RMs, but not to pressure young men. And if young men can't handle that pressure BEFORE going on their mission, I don't think they could handle the actual missionary work itself.

I waited until I was 21 to serve. Until then, I wore a black long-sleeve shirt to church as a way to say "I'm here against my will, don't talk to me about a mission." My Bishop at the time? He was a returned mission president.

Who do you think had me in his sights? Me. And I held everyone off until I was ready and willing.

If a young man can't handle a little peer pressure, then he's going to be coddled for the rest of his life.

What kind of men are we raising in the Church who can't think for themselves???

What kind of young women are we raising in the Church who can't choose a date or a future spouse only on their "missionary status"?

Talk about closed minded.

Actually they do pressure. They are taught and encouraged by their YW and RS leaders to date RMs as a means to getting men on mission. It was like that in my pre-missionary days. There is a problem in the church with women not being willing to date or commit to men who didn't serve missions. I've run into this quite a bit.

[HoplessMarriageReject]

Based on what?

Based on god-given common sense and intelligence.

[skippy740]

Show me where it's written in the lesson manuals about teaching YW to only date RMs as a means to pressure them.

[skippy740]

Based on god-given common sense and intelligence.

Are you saying that our leaders don't have God-given common sense and intelligence?

Is that what I'm to interpret from your posts here?

[Quin]

Skippy, I think it is you that is being judgmental. I don't blame her one bit for how she feels. That policy is pure nonsense in opinion, it is simply about image. And who are you to say that her son doesn't meet the standards to serve a mission? So are you now saying that those with medical conditions (which may be causing their obesity) that have no affect on their ability to serve aren't meeting the standards? This is ridiculous. Actually, I'll join her in judging these new set criteria by the church for missionary service. I think they are about image and I think they are wrong and discriminatory. I think they reflect an attitude of ignorance (one that you share with them BTW) and will drive some away from the church eventually.

We've got a missionary who is somewhere between 375 & 425 (at those numbers I'm not a super accurate judge... But wih Hockey playing brothers I've got a general eye).

Like my bros. (contraction OED word nazis ; ), the Elder was one of the big guys in football. (Obv. I don't follow football much).

He's NOT all muscle.

He's not even a teddy bear.

We're talking beyond rolls.

2+ airplane seats.

UNDER the fat, however, is super healthy musculoskeletal & vascular system.

He leaves his beanpole companion in the DUST.

He's ripped under all those rolls.

(Skinny does not mean fit, just like fat does not mean unfit... Even though the tendency is there for both).

I believe that's what Backroads was trying to say. I didn't hear her being in any way discriminatory or dismissive. I heard her trying to say:

2 people who weigh the same, look the same... May be worlds away from each other in physicality.

Anorexic and too weak to lift 20 pounds looks an awful lot like

ballerina whipcord that can move 700lbs at the gym, easy.

350 football player

350 needs assistance to walk/stand

Just because someone is fat, it doesn't mean they're in shape or out of shape.

Just because someone is thin, it doesn't mean that they're in shape or out of shape.

Regardless of why someone is out of shape, being out of shape is dangerous when there is a sudden demand on the circulatory & musculoskeletal systems. Heart attack & a whole host of arrhythmias of lesser stature, soft tissue damage, CT damage, fractures, etc.

No one wants missionaries returning home broken.

They're at the beginning of their lives.

An injury, or cardiac muscle death following MI, or low oxygen brain injury ... Will follow them, and limit them, their entire lives.

Or (dead kid card) worse: a bad outcome if medical attention isn't readily available.

I believe the rules are made in kindness.

Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

Or isn't frustrating, or disappointing, or even embarrassing at times.

However, I believe in the kindness of wanting the best lives for our missionaries & members throughout their whole lives (not just the military outlook of 'can they perform for x years' which leaves most exMilitary with a 20% or greater disability at time of discharge! Most of my friends qualify for 60% or greater. It took me 7 surgeries and many years to recover enough to return to athletics, and I still qualify as disabled if I want to claim it. I don't. We just don't apply for it, because it would limit our hire ability. But the military ONLY cares if they can keep you duct taped together while you're active duty, and if you break yourself doing it oh well.)

The church, on the other hand, has an eye to different & changing needs of individuals over time (18-24/6 allows for a great deal of flexibility, so too, does the ward mission, technical missions -wrong term, someone help out my tired brain, but when someone is serving in a specific field/ what a lot of physically disabled members do-, and serving later in life. AS WELL AS completing your mission in good health. Not with life long problems, that could have been "easily" avoided. (A couple years of work is a drop in the bucket in 60 years of life in front of you).

I'm sorry for the pain of all of those who have to prove their fitness because they're an outlier.

I'm sorry for the pain of all of those who cannot prove their fitness.

But I'm not sorry they're not disabled or dead.

Predictable is preventable.

Q

[HoplessMarriageReject]

Are you saying that our leaders don't have God-given common sense and intelligence?

Is that what I'm to interpret from your posts here?

I am saying they are human and make errors like everyone else.