Kids and Smart Phones: What Am I Missing?

[Vort]

That is silly. The GPS is FOR ME. So I know where my kid is.

Luddite that I am, I think I don't understand you. Are you saying that your kids' phones have a GPS-utilizing device that tells you where they are? A tracking device of some sort? If not, I do not understand what you're saying.

But even then, GPS will make you stupid if you let it make you stupid. Just like a calculator. Telling my kid not to use a calculator because it makes him stupid is silly.

So when you teach the children math, you don't let them use a calculator. Calculators are only allowed when the child is well into algebra and you're confident he can solve all arithmetic problems with pen and paper. Then you allow him a calculator to avoid the drudgery and always-present potential thoughtless slipup from pages of arithmetical calculations. I accept this.

But we don't offer classes in "how to find some place you're going". That mental map-making, a type of mathematical-spatial reasoning that humans excel at -- or should excel at -- is not something you study for a year or two, master, then forget. Like arithmetic, it is developed and kept useful by constant practice. GPS has its place, but what use would an 11-year-old have for GPS? It makes no sense. They aren't out exploring unknown parts of the city. It's not a safety imperative -- or if it is, you live in the wrong place.

The child should get used to understanding direction and dead reckoning, and to develop a sense of where something is and how to go about getting there. GPS works against this.

[Bini]

I get more confused just reading this thread.

Does my child need a cellphone (regardless if it's smart or dumb) to survive? NO. Does a cellphone (or any electronic device) offer certain benefits? YES. Do these devices also present potential disadvantages? SURE. What's the answer to whether a child should have such a device? I think it's the parents' decision and I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer. I think there can be a happy medium in between, somewhere where there are rules or guidelines outlined for the child, and parents being proactive about what their child is up to.

[Canuck Mormon]

My 14 year old has a smart phone. Not an expensive one, but a cheap smart phone. His plan does not allowing picture messaging or any data unless on wi-fi. He texts his friends and checks Facebook when at home. He also knows that we can request a check of his phone at any time. With me, my wife, my ex-wife all working and him getting shuffled between houses, we all thought a phone would be good. He texts me and lets me know when he is home. He texts his mom to find out if he is to meet her somewhere or just wait at my house. Are there issues with it? Sure and he knows the consequences of misuse.

[Guest]

Luddite that I am, I think I don't understand you. Are you saying that your kids' phones have a GPS-utilizing device that tells you where they are? A tracking device of some sort? If not, I do not understand what you're saying.

Yes. It tells me where the phone is - whether my kid is with his phone or not is a different matter. But, generally, the phone is in my kids' pocket at all times so it's all good.

We follow our own version of Free Range Parenting where we control the environment but let the kids roam freely in that environment. So, for example, they have free range in our neighborhood which is over 2 miles from end to end. We specifically chose this subdivision to live in because we feel relatively safe letting our kids lose in there. Another example is the Orlando Theme Parks. We go to these places a lot (I used to volunteer for Busch Gardens and Sea World animal rescue program) and the kids have free range over the entire Theme Park.

The smartphone is a tool we use for our Free Range Kids. This is the main reason we got them smartphones (hence my first post on this thread with GPS in giant letters). So, we have this app on all our smartphones where all 4 of us have all our devices tied together so that we have our own dot via the GPS. This way, not only can I locate my kids, my kids can locate us too if they need to. And that locator is fairly accurate within 3 yards! It is just an added assurance for us, which, for "true followers" of Free Range Kids, sounds silly.

But we don't offer classes in "how to find some place you're going". That mental map-making, a type of mathematical-spatial reasoning that humans excel at -- or should excel at -- is not something you study for a year or two, master, then forget. Like arithmetic, it is developed and kept useful by constant practice. GPS has its place, but what use would an 11-year-old have for GPS? It makes no sense. They aren't out exploring unknown parts of the city. It's not a safety imperative -- or if it is, you live in the wrong place.

The child should get used to understanding direction and dead reckoning, and to develop a sense of where something is and how to go about getting there. GPS works against this.

My child uses the Map App with the GPS to tell him his location relative to where he is going. It's the EXACT same thing as going to the gas station to look at the map and find where you are going in relation to where you are. The only difference is - where you're going and where you are is conveniently marked with Red and Green dots on the smartphone which in the gas station, you'll have to find street markers or ask the gas station attendant where you are and then you have to go scan every street on that map to find the street you're looking for. No, my kid doesn't need the Lady telling him to turn left or right here or there. I don't use it either. We travel a lot - over 1000 miles - to visit family. The turn-by-turn directions on the GPS gets us lost more often than not... For example - it used to be if you use the GPS to give you a turn by turn to get to this Private School in town, you're going to end up in my neighborhood. You won't believe how many people I used to have to tell how to get to that school... I think they finally fixed it because I haven't seen anybody in the past year.... And that's not counting how annoying that voice can be when you go off the "route" to find a gas station or because you saw this sign on the road - "Exit here for the World's Biggest Alligator" and the Lady tries to insist on you turning around! But that online Map is Priceless.

Edited February 3, 2014 by anatess

[Suzie]

I am not trying to be sarcastic or scare anyone but it's a little funny and sad at the same time how parents generally think they DO have control over their children's phones and let me tell you, most of them in my experience do not have a clue about what their teens are doing with their phones...then in a lot of cases, the whole thing turns very sour, the police gets involved in a lot of cases, counseling is needed, etc...if you just hear the stories!

[Guest]

I am not trying to be sarcastic or scare anyone but it's a little funny and sad at the same time how parents generally think they DO have control over their children's phones and let me tell you, most of them in my experience do not have a clue about what their teens are doing with their phones...then in a lot of cases, the whole thing turns very sour, the police gets involved in a lot of cases, counseling is needed, etc...if you just hear the stories!

That's more a problem with the parent than it is the child and less so the smartphone. I would think these would be the same parents who think their kid is sleeping over in their best friend's house under the supervision of their best friend's parents instead of partaking of illicit drugs in some teen-age party...

Yes, the child chose to lie to their parents but the child did not go from little good boy johnny who has a great relationship and good guidance from mommy and daddy to little liar drug-using johnny overnight... something went haywire somewhere and the parents were not paying attention.

Know your child and what your child is doing... especially what they're doing with their stuff, may it be smartphone or computer or dumb phone or TV or books or prescription meds or what you think is candy or...

[Bini]

I am not trying to be sarcastic or scare anyone but it's a little funny and sad at the same time how parents generally think they DO have control over their children's phones and let me tell you, most of them in my experience do not have a clue about what their teens are doing with their phones...then in a lot of cases, the whole thing turns very sour, the police gets involved in a lot of cases, counseling is needed, etc...if you just hear the stories!

This is a real problem.

I read on a parenting forum about the pitfalls of being an educated parent when it comes to technology. The article wasn't implying that parents need to be technology gurus but it did encourage parents to be familiar with the devices they provide their children with. It talked about how many parents don't know the ins and outs of their own smartphone, or are familiar with how social networking sites work: tumblr is probably one of the biggest social networking platforms that gain traction from teens and is almost virtually uncensored. When parents that don't know enough about how their own cellphone works and its features, or how these social networking sites function, they're bound to open a can of worms and not even be aware of it.

One example was when people were shocked - SHOCKED - that smartphones map where pictures were taken. It was on the news and got all sorts of attention and scared a lot of parents out of their pants because: A PEDOPHILE CAN NOW TRACK YOUR CHILD JUST FROM THE PICTURES ON YOUR PHONE! The funny thing (for lack of a better word) is that the geo-mapping feature has been a mainstream feature on smartphones since day 1 - people just didn't know it because they never read their smartphone manual that highlights it as an option. I don't read those manuals either but I do take some time to mess around with my device (going through settings, etc., etc.) to get a feel of the inner-workings of my iPhone and geo-mapping happens to be an unhidden feature in settings that can be turned on or off.

[MorningStar]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds as if you're arguing that because we have the technology available, it must be a necessity.

MorningStar was simply saying that she survived childhood without a cellphone, just like Queen Elizabeth and the rest of the British Isles survived without indoor plumbing.

Sure, the technology is nice and all and once again I think many blessings have been brought about because of technology, but if need be, we could all probably learn to live without indoor plumbing and cell phones and survive.

Yes, my children aren't so busy that they would need a cell phone. They walk to school and then they walk home. For other activities, I drive them and I pick them up. I find out what time to get them in advance rather than, "Call me when you need to be picked up." I'm not spending money on phones when it's so hard to afford other things.

[Drpepper]

Yes, my children aren't so busy that they would need a cell phone. They walk to school and then they walk home. For other activities, I drive them and I pick them up. I find out what time to get them in advance rather than, "Call me when you need to be picked up." I'm not spending money on phones when it's so hard to afford other things.

These days, smartphones aren't some much for transportation but for " connecting" children these days want to connect with the world at large. Connecting is one of the inner drives of humanity ( what is the purpose of this forum) and children are aware of that at a younger age. Facebook is solely based on connecting people.

The church has made no secrecy in the internet passwords which are the same for each ward world wide. So I child who may have internet limitations at home won't find those limitations at church. The old saying have a computer in the main room so parents can see what is going on is becoming obsolete. Computers are in our pockets and access to the net through wifi is becoming even easier to find. We are living in a day of teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves because it's impossible as a parent to have your eye on every action.

[Just_A_Guy]

Yes, the child chose to lie to their parents but the child did not go from little good boy johnny who has a great relationship and good guidance from mommy and daddy to little liar drug-using johnny overnight... something went haywire somewhere and the parents were not paying attention.

Sure; but that's part of my discomfort with the phone thing. There isn't such a long and objectively visible road from point A to point B where--say--internet porn, or sexting, come into play. Go to an LDS addiction recovery group, and probably half the people there will start out with something like "on the outside, I was everything a good LDS kid was supposed to be . . ."

Know your child and what your child is doing... especially what they're doing with their stuff, may it be smartphone or computer or dumb phone or TV or books or prescription meds or what you think is candy or...

Agreed. I just wouldn't expect that a ten-year-old's reports of his internet activities are going to be 100% accurate. :)

[Quin]

Luddite that I am, I think I don't understand you. Are you saying that your kids' phones have a GPS-utilizing device that tells you where they are? A tracking device of some sort?

Chiming in a bit late:

Some GPS devices are better than others, most in modern phones are accurate to within about 10'.

What you can do with your child's cellphone in monitoring-land:

Tracking APP... Sends real time location on map of phone at all times. Will also store information to play back at later time.

Clone it... To have full access to every call/text/app/data usage. Either in real time, or record to go over later.

Individual things if you don't want to fully clone:

Key-logger... To know everything typed into the phone

VAR ... Voice activated recorder

Q

[applepansy]

I agree that 10-11 yo's should generally not have a smart phone.

Then... as I read through the first two pages I remember that it was smart phones who saved my sister's boys from being kidnapped by their father. One of the boys figured out where they were with GPS, sent the coordinates to his mother via text. She and my other sister then went to get them and picked up a Sheriff's deputy in the county where they kids were. The boys came home with my sister.

Both my younger sisters are more liberal with technology and their kids. But, in their defense they are both hyper-vigilant and they teach, teach, teach their boys and one girl to be safe, and the consequences of not being safe.

I don't know what I'll do with my 5yo grandson. I play dumb sometimes to figure out what he knows and what he knows scares me sometimes. He maneuvers around my phone and our computers better than his dad or grandpa. So, I actively teach him what is good and what is bad. He's been really good so far to come get me and say "I'm not suppose to see this." (usually nothing scary but he knows what children's content looks like and anything other than that he tells me about.) This generation of children have come hard wired for today's technology. We're not going to be able to keep it from them. All we can do is teach them to be responsible and put in place appropriate consequences when they test the rules.

[Guest]

Agreed. I just wouldn't expect that a ten-year-old's reports of his internet activities are going to be 100% accurate. :)

So my kid got a D in his progress report... So, he lost his electronic privileges.

Saturday comes along and I'm busy cleaning the house and then all of a sudden I stop, wondering where my kid is. I call him, he comes, and right then and there I knew he snuck a game on his computer. I can't tell you how I know. I can't tell you how, in the middle of a busy day, I can just tell something is not right with the kids. I interrogate, they tell me something and I just look at them knowing that's not it. I just know. I can't tell you how I know. So I wait until they tell me the whole story.

I am pretty sure most mothers have this 6th sense. I think it has to do with being with my kids every single day for all of their lives. I can sense when something is off.

[Suzie]

Presently, I am working with four pre-teens with serious cognitive and psychological issues and even though I will not go as far as to state that we should blame their smartphones for these problems because of course, their issues are of a different nature and source, these smartphones aren't helping and the parent's reluctance in taking them away is making their recovery process a very difficult task.

[applepansy]

So my kid got a D in his progress report... So, he lost his electronic privileges.

Saturday comes along and I'm busy cleaning the house and then all of a sudden I stop, wondering where my kid is. I call him, he comes, and right then and there I knew he snuck a game on his computer. I can't tell you how I know. I can't tell you how, in the middle of a busy day, I can just tell something is not right with the kids. I interrogate, they tell me something and I just look at them knowing that's not it. I just know. I can't tell you how I know. So I wait until they tell me the whole story.

I am pretty sure most mothers have this 6th sense. I think it has to do with being with my kids every single day for all of their lives. I can sense when something is off.

And sometimes its the Spirit telling us what's up. :)

[Guest]

And sometimes its the Spirit telling us what's up. :)

I would normally agree with this except that I have non-religious friends who have this 6th sense. Of course, they are still influenced by the Spirit - but not something that they are cognizant of.

[applepansy]

I would normally agree with this except that I have non-religious friends who have this 6th sense. Of course, they are still influenced by the Spirit - but not something that they are cognizant of.

I agree. They might not recognize it as the Spirit but we know better, don't we? :)