Ward Leadership and HT/VT

[Leah]

Reality is that HT is a relic of a bygone era that did not have the advantages of communications we have today. In addition, this program used to be called "block teaching", because the idea was that one could teach the people nearby on one's block. Of course, as the church expanded outside of Utah this terminology became silly, but the program remained, albeit renamed.

Remember, this all began before most people even had telephones, and obviously had a lot of uses.

Now, however it's an increasing burden on church members who increasingly live at some distance from the people they visit and as the majority of the wards in the church have increasing numbers of less active it is becoming impossible to reasonably ask people to do the old block teaching.

Priesthood holders IME have tuned out the harangues over the years, and in the latest iteration in my stake if you visit at least a few on your list in a quarter, you can congratulate yourself on doing a good job.

With the Internet this is now an obsolete model of what should be done.

Real human contact is obsolete?

A church that follows that model is not one I would want to be a part of. And it would be doomed for failure.

[Palerider]

Reality is that HT is a relic of a bygone era that did not have the advantages of communications we have today. In addition, this program used to be called "block teaching", because the idea was that one could teach the people nearby on one's block. Of course, as the church expanded outside of Utah this terminology became silly, but the program remained, albeit renamed.

Remember, this all began before most people even had telephones, and obviously had a lot of uses.

Now, however it's an increasing burden on church members who increasingly live at some distance from the people they visit and as the majority of the wards in the church have increasing numbers of less active it is becoming impossible to reasonably ask people to do the old block teaching.

Priesthood holders IME have tuned out the harangues over the years, and in the latest iteration in my stake if you visit at least a few on your list in a quarter, you can congratulate yourself on doing a good job.

With the Internet this is now an obsolete model of what should be done.

If you feel that way ...you would not want to see my home teaching list and the distance I go. Two of my families I asked to visit and they live really far. My opinion is....you have the attitude you hold currently about home teaching because you don't have a testimony of it.

[sxfritz]

I am grateful for the day when I gained a testimony of HT. I came to understand the value. Do I like HT? NO! I hate invading other's privacy an I hate entertaining bad HTs, but I still care for my families and I watch over them. I make sure they know who I am and that I want to serve. 

 

I think it a terribly flawed program for many of the reasons laid out in other people's posts. I think some divine revelation could radically revamp the program and make it effective. As it is designed now, it will continue to have mediocre results. 

 

Having said that, I know families are blessed by the service. The bishop's work is lightened (the real purpose of the program) and we have the opportunity for our own blessings through service in exercising faith in the gospel.

[The Folk Prophet]

Reality is that HT is a relic of a bygone era that did not have the advantages of communications we have today. 

...

With the Internet this is now an obsolete model of what should be done.

 

These statements are both false.

[The Folk Prophet]

I think it a terribly flawed program for many of the reasons laid out in other people's posts. I think some divine revelation could radically revamp the program and make it effective. As it is designed now, it will continue to have mediocre results. 

 

Respectfully, I believe this is inordinately false as well. The reason HTing has mediocre results is because people are doing a mediocre (at best) job of it. The program, if done correctly, would render Zion.

 

All the complaining laid out in many of these posts is why HTing fails. If we would, instead, get over ourselves and humbly do what we've been asked to, then HTing would bring about the promised blessings for obedience to it.

 

HTing, or anything like unto it, will never succeed without the servants of the Lord being willing to actually serve Him according to His will and ways.  Moreover, I dread a new revelation given to a weak body of Saints because they are unwilling and too lazy and indolent to succeed with the previous divine revelation.

Edited January 21, 2015 by The Folk Prophet

[AngelMarvel]

We must be really blessed, because our HT and VT come to visit us every month without fail. And, they normally come the first week of the month!

 

My companion and I have a hard time connecting due to me being out of town so much and her working...but, we do pretty good trying to make our visits. Our main problem is 3 of the sisters we visit work days and are not home a lot during the evenings because they have children to take to school functions, dance lessons, etc. So normally we only visit with one that is always home. We leave the little teaching lesson and a small gift on the door of the others. We always call them, but mostly have to leave a message.

 

My husband does his HT and I am his companion because we just don't have enough men to get it all done. He does good on his HT when he is home...but, most of the time he is out of the state working....then someone else will try to fill in.

 

It's really hard when we travel so much.

[Palerider]

Love visiting my families.....I personaly don't know who mine are and that's ok. But I take care of my stewardship

[sxfritz]

Respectfully, I believe this is inordinately false as well. The reason HTing has mediocre results is because people are doing a mediocre (at best) job of it. The program, if done correctly, would render Zion.

Yes, so many things could have us translated and we could live in Heaven. How we wish we could usher in the Second Coming.

 

One problem with divine revelation, such as that which created the program, is nobody wants to challenge it to find more revelation that could adapt this program to be effective. They've changed so much in the Church in the past 30 years, including the endowment presentation, why not take a look at HT. 

 

There is something wrong when a person can come in your house, camp out for an hour and half, say nothing of any relevance and promise to be back month after month and his numbers get counted as being effective. 

[estradling75]

One problem with divine revelation, such as that which created the program, is nobody wants to challenge it to find more revelation that could adapt this program to be effective. They've changed so much in the Church in the past 30 years, including the endowment presentation, why not take a look at HT. 

 

 

 

It is rather presumptuous of you to say that the leadership have not looked at the program

[sxfritz]

It is rather presumptuous of you to say that the leadership have not looked at the program.

My, you are as your name states.  

 

I'm certain HT is a vital focus by the Brethren, but it hasn't changed in as many years as I have been a member. I "presume" it is because it is difficult to change what was implemented and accepted as revelation from a prophet. I am stating my opinion of course. I think that the purpose of the discussion.

 

I had a bishop who asked we focus first on the families who "want" home teachers. I found that more effective to the purpose. He did that under his stewardship of his ward, but once he was called into the stake presidency the policy was forgotten. 

[Vort]

My, you are as your name states.

 

Does "estradling75" mean something?

[sxfritz]

Does "estradling75" mean something?

I am going to assume a "she" because of the baby blue Care Bear icon..... She is titled "Grumpy Moderator". 

[The Folk Prophet]

I am going to assume a "she" because of the baby blue Care Bear icon..... She is titled "Grumpy Moderator". 

 

Actually, "he" is a very nice guy. So wrong on both counts. Oh...wait...the HTing thing. Wrong on three counts.

[estradling75]

My, you are as your name states.  

 

I'm certain HT is a vital focus by the Brethren, but it hasn't changed in as many years as I have been a member. I "presume" it is because it is difficult to change what was implemented and accepted as revelation from a prophet. I am stating my opinion of course. I think that the purpose of the discussion.

 

I had a bishop who asked we focus first on the families who "want" home teachers. I found that more effective to the purpose. He did that under his stewardship of his ward, but once he was called into the stake presidency the policy was forgotten. 

 

Your bishop clearly showed that Leaders are looking into the program and adjusting it as they see as needful.  You assume (again) that it was forgotten rather then adjusted again by the local leaders

 

I am going to assume a "she" because of the baby blue Care Bear icon..... She is titled "Grumpy Moderator". 

Another swing and a miss... 

[The Folk Prophet]

Yes, so many things could have us translated and we could live in Heaven. How we wish we could usher in the Second Coming.

 

Clearly we don't all wish this enough or we would behave differently.

 

One problem with divine revelation, such as that which created the program, is nobody wants to challenge it to find more revelation that could adapt this program to be effective.

 

This is not something wrong with divine revelation at all. It's based on the ever-so-trendy idea that our leaders are not seeking new revelation, which is a lie at worst, and blindness at best.

 

There is something wrong when a person can come in your house, camp out for an hour and half, say nothing of any relevance and promise to be back month after month and his numbers get counted as being effective. 

 

This comment points to the core of why you are mistaken, because this is not, nor has it ever been, the "divine revelation" of what home teaching is. Moreover, I suspect, you have a very limited concept of what "nothing of any relevance" means. However, if that is what is happening in some homes (and I don't doubt that it is in many) then that home teaching is not being done according to the directions given.

 

I "presume" it is because it is difficult to change what was implemented and accepted as revelation from a prophet. 

 

Why on earth would you presume this? You think the Lord is okay with having a broken system that doesn't actually work, that there's a better way but the Lord is just sitting on it in spite of the fact that the leaders of our church are consistently asking Him for guidance in leading His church. Why would He do that? If the Lord wants change, the Lord will implement change. If He does not, He has a good reason not to, and we should trust that, and do as He has directed us to without murmuring.

 

I had a bishop who asked we focus first on the families who "want" home teachers. I found that more effective to the purpose. He did that under his stewardship of his ward, but once he was called into the stake presidency the policy was forgotten. 

 

Darn straight. All the lost sheep can go jump! Forget about them! That IS a better way!! 

[sxfritz]

I think the group of you proved out my point exactly. You take any perceived criticism of the Church as blasphemy and get your panties all bunched up. I'm going to leave this thread else Eowyn swoop in and close the thread. You are welcome to the last critical word.

[estradling75]

I think the group of you proved out my point exactly. You take any perceived criticism of the Church as blasphemy and get your panties all bunched up. I'm going to leave this thread else Eowyn swoop in and close the thread. You are welcome to the last critical word.

 

 

We point out the logical failures of your assumptions and how you could be wrong... and you leave in a huff...  So really who is the one with their panties in a bunch?

[The Folk Prophet]

I think the group of you proved out my point exactly.

 

Which point was proved? Are you really claiming that our defense of a church program means the leaders aren't inspired and led by God's will? I mean, even if in this thread we are overly defensive and closed minded on the matter, how does that prove that those who actually define the church programs are? 

 

You take any perceived criticism of the Church as blasphemy

 

"Blasphemy" is a bit strong. But, yes, I, and others, will defend against criticism of divinely inspired church programs.

 

You are welcome to the last critical word.

 

Thanks!

 

Really though, the criticism of home teaching shows misunderstanding by those criticizing. Have you ever thought that, perhaps, the so-called "flaws" in home teaching are intentional? That, just maybe, the Lord's purposes are broader and more meaningful than our small-minded understanding? That sometimes humbly submitting ourselves to an hour-and-a-half of boredom is one of the ways the Lord teaches us important lessons? That home teaching might actually be significantly more than just a communication method? That home teaching may be just as much, if not more so, for the home teacher to learn and develop as it is for the home taught? Etc., etc.

 

It's really less about getting our panties bunched up, as you so eloquently put it, as it's about defending and explaining something we understand that you and others do not seem to.

[pkstpaul]

It seems to me he expressed his testimony in the program. Did you all miss that?

[Windseeker]

I think perhaps the Home Teaching program is purposely flawed, like the Word of Wisdom is purposely flawed for the weak and the weakest of the saints. 

 

I think there are those saints that love numbers, but to me the spirit get's lost. I didn't care about numbers on my mission despite having served a very successful mission in a historically low baptizing country. I certainly don't care about them now..but somewhere long the way it started to irk me that I can't follow the Lords admonition without having it assigned by some do-good-er Elders Quorum President.

 

I suppose it's up to us to get that it's an assignment notion out of our head and to prove to our families that they are more then just a number. 

 

As far as my home teachers are concerned they are great. Last Sunday he waved at me when I walked in to Church. I told him to PLEASE count that as a visit. 

 

As far as attacks on sxfritz, We certainly eat our own..don't we.

 

Can we defend the program without attacking the person who is critical of it. I mean...we certainly don't share the gospel that way.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Windseeker

[The Folk Prophet]

I think perhaps the Home Teaching program is purposely flawed, like the Word of Wisdom is purposely flawed for the weak and the weakest of the saints. 

 

In that if we all acted as we should in all things, I agree. Home teaching would not need to exist if we were all actually loved our neighbors as we've been commanded to do.

 

but somewhere long the way it started to irk me that I can't follow the Lords admonition without having it assigned by some do-good-er Elders Quorum President.

 

Why do you think this way though? You can, and should, follow the Lord's admonition regardless of home teaching. There's something amiss in the idea that we cannot serve others unless we're assigned to them. There's also something amiss in the idea that if we are assigned to them it somehow diminishes love and service.

 

As far as attacks on sxfritz, We certainly eat our own..don't we.

 

Can we defend the program without attacking the person who is critical of it. I mean...we certainly don't share the gospel that way.

 

I re-read through the responses and feel quite confident that sxfritz was not attacked personally. My responses, for the most part, referred to all those who were critical of the program (which includes some of your statements, right?), and claimed nothing more or less than a lack of understanding and willingness to comply. If that is an "attack" then no, we cannot defend the program without attacking those critical of it. If, on the other hand, the use of the word "attack" is somewhat inflammatory and inaccurate to what's actually happened...then yes. We can and did.

 

I'll admit that the responses about estradling75 not being a "she" got a bit snippier than ideal -- the catalyst for that, however, being sxfritz's snippy and defensive, "My, you are as your name states" comment preceding it. That doesn't justify a snippy reply, of course. But other than that very short exchange, I don't believe anything said to sxfritz has been an attack.

 

Of course, sxfritz is getting defensive and responding like it's a personal attack. That doesn't mean it is.

[Windseeker]

Why do you think this way though? You can, and should, follow the Lord's admonition regardless of home teaching. There's something amiss in the idea that we cannot serve others unless we're assigned to them. There's also something amiss in the idea that if we are assigned to them it somehow diminishes love and service.

 

I agree with your statement. I don't know why I think this way. It takes effort to remind myself that without numbers you can't track success. Every time I home teach I have to overcome the anxiety that those I'm visiting think I'm just doing it because I've been assigned and want it to "count" and that those who visit me see my family as a "project" and a duty to perform.

 

I work with clients and as you can imagine, I have the same problem with my work. I don't care enough about numbers and it costs me there too. 

[pkstpaul]

Of course, sxfritz is getting defensive and responding like it's a personal attack. That doesn't mean it is.

Your responses are condescending and thus interpreted as an attack.

[estradling75]

As far as attacks on sxfritz, We certainly eat our own..don't we.

 

Can we defend the program without attacking the person who is critical of it. I mean...we certainly don't share the gospel that way.

 

 

Lets analysis this...

 

sxfritz first post...  I had nothing to say about it.

 

Sxfritz second post... he makes the claim "nobody wants to challenge it to find more revelation that could adapt this program to be effective"  In order for this statement to be true sxfritz has to know the mindset of just about every church leader from the Prophet down to the local Elders Quorum presidents. And sxfritz has to know that none of them ever got down on their knees and prayed about how to best fulfill their stewardship over the members.  Given the huge claims sxfritz makes with that statement I think a response of calling it a presumptuous that he knows these things is spot on.  And if anyone wants to call it a personal attack against sxfritz well then by that standard sxfritz made a personal attack against anyone that has ever served in leadership position that deals with the Home and Visiting teaching programs.  I would be willing to grant a bit of hyperbolic license if it was super majority of the leaders, or even really just a majority of the leaders but he can't even claim that. 

 

Sxfritz next couple posts made assumptions about my attitude and gender.  And he tried to defend his prior claims by giving and example of his bishop that tried to make changes.  I pointed out his error on the subject of my gender and that his story about his bishop hurt his case because it was a leader who was seeking ways to make the program better thus disproving his claim that it not being tried...

 

Sxfritz final post comes of more as an ad hominem attack against those that disagreed with him.  That and leaving is pretty much an acknowledgment that he can't defend is position.

 

Don't get me wrong I know our leaders are not flawless and that things could be better.  But if a person is going to make broad sweeping claims about the leaders of the church then they need to be able to back it up. 

[estradling75]

Your responses are condescending and thus interpreted as an attack.

 

Are trying to make the claim that some of Sxfritz's post weren't condescending and couldn't be interpreted as an attack?