Guest Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I hope we behave better, because of what we know. Maybe we're just seeing "better" differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Sometimes I feel like I have to tip toe around you TFP :) Hopefully this comment doesn't stem from the same sentiment as those who despise every word I write. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laniston Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I'm curious to know what definition of faith is being used here when comparing faith to knowledge. Just_A_Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Per the "better than" thought, hopefully, generally (per Vort's thought) the members of the church are. But like any generalization it cannot be applied one-to-one. As in, women may "generally" be more righteous than men. That doesn't mean that Eowyn, by virtue being female, is more righteous than, say, Vort. (She may be...but she also may not be...the male/female thing doesn't apply at the one-to-one level). Therefore, it is accurate to say that being a member of the church does not mean you are more righteous than anyone outside the church. But in adding the words "in general", and phrasing it the way it was...likely not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I'm curious to know what definition of faith is being used here when comparing faith to knowledge. I'm not sure a plain "dictionary" definition of faith is sufficient in LDS theology. Faith is a complicated principle. It is one we learn more and more about as we work to exercise it. At it's core faith can be described as belief with action I think. But I, for one, am constantly learning more as I study and practice faith as to what it actually means to have faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I hope we behave better, because of what we know. Maybe we're just seeing "better" differently. Perhaps. Do you think Jesus is "better" than us? I believe that cuts to the core of our discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 The lectures on Faith teach that faith is "the principle of action in all intelligent beings" (emphasis mine). I agree that it may be termed the foundation of action. Building off of this comment. Lets give an example. I go to work every day. Why? Because I have faith that if I go to work and do a good job I will get paid and be able to support my family. Please note that this is not Faith in Christ, but just Faith (Substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen) sometimes we use the two interchangeably or assume Christ is the focus I have done this for years and my faith has not returned empty in this matter. One might suggest I have knowledge on this action. The Lectures on Faith are clear that any time we take an action in hopes of a result in the future then we are acting on faith. It then goes on to talk about how most of the thing we put our faith in are unreliable. My work is a perfect example. Today my faith in going to work could return empty (I really hope not) and outlines how Christ is the only sure foundation for Faith. Thus the Lectures of Faith statement that God acts on Faith fits right in to how they are explaining it. God wants to "bring something to pass." God has Faith that he can "Bring it to Pass" so God acts in faith and "Brings it to Pass" To tie back in to the OP when we exercise "Faith in Christ" he does not fail us. The more we exercise that kind of Faith the more we can come to "Know" Christ and what he is like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 It's worth noting on the idea of God acting by faith (by faith the worlds were created) that God has all knowledge and still acts with faith. Vort 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 It's worth noting on the idea of God acting by faith (by faith the worlds were created) that God has all knowledge and still acts with faith. Which is why I suggested some time ago that "faith" is a multifaceted gem, and Alma's explication in chapter 32 covers only one aspect of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyTown Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 BY FAITH YOUR FACE WAS CREATED. <--- checks to make sure his statement is factually correct and, satisfied, leaves it there. mordorbund 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yesterday a wonderful couple gave talks based on Pres Uchdorf's talk on faith in the last general conference. During the good sister's speech, I couldn't help but notice that she seemed to be simply regurgitating the same scriptures uses to explain faith, but I felt that she missed the point. The whole thing felt like I was sitting in some other church listening to someone who really does not understand the true nature of the Gospel and the doctrines pertaining to it. This seems to be a common issue throughout the church these days. I do not judge her for this, as I do not know her situation nor her level of knowledge. She used Alma 32 to discuss growing the seed of faith. This is a good scripture, but, it goes on to say that we should let the seed grow until it becomes knowledge and our faith is not neede on that particular point. "The glory of God is intelligence" is another passage used, but again missed the point of gaining knowledge through Faith. in D&C 9, Our Father Rebukes Oliver Cowdrey for simply expecting things to happen just because of his faith. Oliver was told to "Study it out in your mind, then ask me if it be right..." In Moroni 10:3-5, the Lord clearly tells us to compare the new information with the old knowledge, make a determination as to the truth, then ask "in faith". While faith is necessary for us to grow in our path of life, that faith MUST lead to testimony. Testimony is knowledge. It is what you know. Once a person has a testimony of a certain doctrine, faith in that doctrine cannot exist as one cancells the other. Are we as a people putting too much emphasis on faith over knowledge? In every case I can find in the scriptures, faith leads to knowledge and faith becomes dormant. The more conversations I have with church members, the more I feel like we are stuck in the same rut tha Israel fell into, forgetting what the commandments were really about and what our true goal is. I don't think there is a case for too much faith.... however when we refuse to take something related to whatever item into consideration to ponder over and study out I think there is the danger of pride becomes present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crypto Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Hopefully this comment doesn't stem from the same sentiment as those who despise every word I write. Your good, a little bit of conflict just means a person is willing to express/defend their beliefs, to be real. Which I can appreciate. (Though you do seem to do it quite often) BY FAITH YOUR FACE WAS CREATED. <--- checks to make sure his statement is factually correct and, satisfied, leaves it there.Them be fighting words! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 (Though you do seem to do it quite often) Yes. Yes I do. Welcome to TFP town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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