Doctrines verses personal covenants

[Vort]

I believe many Saints are indeed living the law of consecration (not to be confused with living a united order, which at best is lived within families). I strive to live the law of consecration in its fulness, at least to the extent I am able.

[The Folk Prophet]

But I am only one voice crying out in the wilderness.

 

I do not doubt your sincerity. But these posts of yours (The broken recordness of it all) doesn't strike me as problematic in it's repetitiveness, but in the implied presumption that you are a lone wolf. You are not. There are thousand upon thousands, if not millions, striving to do just exactly as you are.

[estradling75]

For a century and a half, the saints have covenanted to live the law of consecration. For a century and a half, we have yet to live the law of consecration. I am left to ask myself a few questions:

 

-Have the saints been waiting for their prophet to command them in all things? Or more specifically, are we waiting for President Monson to tell us that as we have covenanted to obey this law for the building up of Zion, that it is finally time to begin?

-Is President Monson waiting for the Lord to instruct him that it is finally time for us to be commanded to live this law, which we have long since covenanted to obey, so that the Lord can finally bring forth Zion?

-Or maybe our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ is waiting for us to rise up and rather than be commanded to do so, be "up and doing" what we have covenanted to do already and begin coming together to not only "say, but to do."

 

These are the options that I see. But as you say, do our best to encourage others to ripen as wheat. As an elder, teacher, and priest in the church, my calling is to preach, teach, expound, exhort, watch over the church always and to be with and strengthen the membership, etc. and be a watchman upon the wall. I know what our leaders have clearly encouraged us to do all my life. I have done my best to do so and continue to do my best to do so with an eye single to the glory of our King, with all my heart, might, mind and strength that I may stand blameless before God at the last day. But I am only one voice crying out in the wilderness. The time is drawing near. I know I must sound like a broken record, but the message has been the same for dispensations.

 

Traveler used the Sabbath as one example in the message he is trying to drive home to us. Mine is the law of consecration, or rather, to labor for Zion. It has been four and five generations. One hundred, eighty years is long enough. O, God, where art thou? And where is the pavilion that covereth thy hiding place? Stretch forth thy hand. Let thine eye pierce. Let thy pavilion be taken up. Let thy hiding place be no longer covered. Let thine ear be inclined. Let thine heart be softened, and thy bowels moved with compassion toward us!

 

It's obvious to me that someone is waiting for someone else to do something. 

 

 

Or is there Historical evidence that we repeated tried and failed to bring forth Zion (in the sense you are talking about not in the sense Vort is talking about)(See the various effort of both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young).

 

Which seems to be a big indicator that we collectively lack what it takes to make it work at this time.  Instead these failures makes it  seems more likely that we are in a preparatory state until we gain what it takes to make it work like the Lord always intended.  (Which could very well be thought the means that Vort is talking about)

[skalenfehl]

I do not doubt your sincerity. But these posts of yours (The broken recordness of it all) doesn't strike me as problematic in it's repetitiveness, but in the implied presumption that you are a lone wolf. You are not. There are thousand upon thousands, if not millions, striving to do just exactly as you are.

 

Ok, rephrasing: I am merely one voice...I didn't mean to say I am the only voice...and if there truly are millions, then I rejoice with you and praise my God. We are closer than ever!

[skalenfehl]

Or is there Historical evidence that we repeated tried and failed to bring forth Zion (in the sense you are talking about not in the sense Vort is talking about)(See the various effort of both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young).

 

Which seems to be a big indicator that we collectively lack what it takes to make it work at this time.  Instead these failures makes it  seems more likely that we are in a preparatory state until we gain what it takes to make it work like the Lord always intended.  (Which could very well be thought the means that Vort is talking about)

 

I'll just cite one: D&C 101.

 

 

1 Verily I say unto you, concerning your brethren who have been afflicted, and persecuted, and cast out from the land of their inheritance—

 2 I, the Lord, have suffered the affliction to come upon them, wherewith they have been afflicted, in consequence of their transgressions;

 3 Yet I will own them, and they shall be mine in that day when I shall come to make up my jewels.

 4 Therefore, they must needs be chastened and tried, even asAbraham, who was commanded to offer up his only son.

 5 For all those who will not endure chastening, but deny me, cannot be sanctified.

 6 Behold, I say unto you, there were jarrings, and contentions, and envyings, and strifes, and lustful and covetous desires among them; therefore by these things they polluted their inheritances.

 7 They were slow to hearken unto the voice of the Lord their God; therefore, the Lord their God is slow to hearken unto their prayers, to answer them in the day of their trouble.

 8 In the day of their peace they esteemed lightly my counsel; but, in the day of their trouble, of necessity they feel after me.

 9 Verily I say unto you, notwithstanding their sins, my bowels are filled with compassion towards them. I will not utterly cast them off; and in the day of wrath I will remember mercy...

16 Therefore, let your hearts be comforted concerning Zion; for all flesh is in mine hands; be still and know that I am God.

 17 Zion shall not be moved out of her place, notwithstanding her children are scattered.

 18 They that remain, and are pure in heart, shall return, and come to their inheritances, they and their children, with songs of everlasting joy, to build up the waste places of Zion...

41 Behold, here is wisdom concerning the children of Zion, even many, but not all; they were found transgressors, therefore they must needs be chastened—

 42 He that exalteth himself shall be abased, and he that abaseth himself shall be exalted.

 43 And now, I will show unto you a parable, that you may know my will concerning the redemption of Zion.

 44 A certain nobleman had a spot of land, very choice; and he said unto his servants: Go ye unto my vineyard, even upon this very choice piece of land, and plant twelve olive trees;

 45 And set watchmen round about them, and build a tower, that one may overlook the land round about, to be a watchman upon the tower, that mine olive trees may not be broken down when the enemy shall come to spoil and take upon themselves the fruit of my vineyard.

 46 Now, the servants of the nobleman went and did as their lord commanded them, and planted the olive trees, and built a hedge round about, and set watchmen, and began to build a tower.

 47 And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower?

 48 And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace?

 49 Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things.

 50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very slothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord.

 51 And the enemy came by night, and broke down the hedge; and the servants of the nobleman arose and were affrighted, and fled; and the enemy destroyed their works, and broke down the olive trees.

 52 Now, behold, the nobleman, the lord of the vineyard, called upon his servants, and said unto them, Why! what is the cause of this great evil?

 53 Ought ye not to have done even as I commanded you, and—after ye had planted the vineyard, and built the hedge round about, and set watchmen upon the walls thereof—built the tower also, and set a watchman upon the tower, and watched for my vineyard, and not have fallen asleep, lest the enemy should come upon you?

 54 And behold, the watchman upon the tower would have seen the enemy while he was yet afar off; and then ye could have made ready and kept the enemy from breaking down the hedge thereof, and saved my vineyard from the hands of the destroyer.

 55 And the lord of the vineyard said unto one of his servants: Go and gather together the residue of my servants, and take all the strength of mine house, which are my warriors, my young men, and they that are of middle age also among all my servants, who are the strength of mine house, save those only whom I have appointed to tarry;

 56 And go ye straightway unto the land of my vineyard, and redeem my vineyard; for it is mine; I have bought it with money.

 57 Therefore, get ye straightway unto my land; break down the walls of mine enemies; throw down their tower, and scatter their watchmen.

 58 And inasmuch as they gather together against you,avenge me of mine enemies, that by and by I may come with the residue of mine house and possess the land.

 59 And the servant said unto his lord: When shall these things be?

 60 And he said unto his servant: When I will; go ye straightway, and do all things whatsoever I have commanded you;

 61 And this shall be my seal and blessing upon you—a faithful and wise steward in the midst of mine house, a ruler in my kingdom.

 62 And his servant went straightway, and did all things whatsoever his lord commanded him; and after many days all things were fulfilled.

 

All things are not yet fulfilled. Isaiah's prophecies are beginning to be fulfilled. Then shall Zion be redeemed.

[classylady]

Matthew 24: 24.  "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

 

In our modern culture with access to the internet, blogs, news articles, websites, youtube, etc. we have access to listen to and read many teachings of false prophets, false teachers, false christs, and so forth.  How are we to know what is false and what is true?  For some of the material we see and read may be scripture mingled with false teachings. What if you read or hear something that twists church history or the early prophets and it gets you questioning?  It's my belief that the foundation of our testimony must be based on Jesus Christ.  It cannot be based on our parent's testimonies, our missionary that converted us, our spouse, or on any specific teaching.  For example, what if your testimony of the gospel is based on the temple. At some point in the future perhaps some of the wording is taken out or changed. Would that shake your faith?  How about if your testimony is based on Joseph Smith, and you are unfamiliar with church history?  Then, you read the articles posted by the Church about Joseph and some of the methods he used to translate the Book of Mormon.  Will your faith be shaken?  Or perhaps you love the current prophet.  What if you find out he has alzheimers?  Will you still believe?  What if you perceive your bishop as being dishonest or unkind?  Will that make you question the truthfulness of the gospel?

 

Again, our testimony must be based and have its foundation on Jesus Christ.  If you know that Christ is the head of the church, then your testimony won't be shaken.  If the Spirit witnessed to you of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, which is a second testament of Jesus Christ, then you will know that Joseph Smith was called of God to restore the Gospel here upon the earth.  If the Spirit has witnessed to you that after Joseph Smith's death, that the mantle of the prophet was placed on Brigham Young, and each succeeding President of the Church, you will know that this is Christ's church.  You must have that Spiritual witness.  And then have faith that the Lord will not allow His Prophets to lead the church astray.  I have received  that witness, and I am so grateful because I am not swayed whenever I hear false teachings.  And, I am deeply saddened when a loved one falls away, and I am reminded that the very elect will be deceived.

 

 

Matthew 24: 40-42.  Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.  Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.  Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

 

How can we work towards being the one that is caught up and not burned?  That is what I strive for. And another scripture comes to mind.  I love 1 Corinthians 13:

 

"1. Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing…. 13. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."

 

And now to tie everything together about doctrine vs. our covenants, according to classylady:  IMO, we can understand all the mysteries, have all the knowledge of the doctrine, we can make all the covenants necessary to obtain salvation, but if we do not have charity, it profiteth us nothing.  We may give our all to the poor and needy, but have not charity, it profiteth us nothing, and how can Zion be established?  We might listen to blogs and read material that we think is bringing us closer to God, and think we know the will of the Father and understand His mysteries, but if we don't listen to the Spirit, we can be deceived. And, then it profiteth us nothing.  We may think we have a testimony, but then the rains come, and then our house that is built upon the sand, and not upon the rock--our Savior, will wash away, and it profiteth us nothing.  I think I better learn what charity is and become that type of person.  And, hopefully, I will be caught up and not burned.

Edited February 13, 2015 by classylady

[Traveler]

I wish I had more time on my hands so I could answer many posts specifically and in great detail.  Perhaps this weekend.  A quick side note.  Though I am trying to retire my little business has been expanding and I am having to deal with things that I do not want to do.  I do not want to expand and have the responsibilities of employees.  I am not good at being a boss.  I am good at ideas and helping the boss implement improvements.

 

Now on to the discussion.  I have always loved studying doctrine.  Not just the doctrine of Christ as put forth by his chosen prophets but I have loved studying out of the best books – or the best ideas of inspired men and women.  What I discovered both about myself and others is a “strange” fascination with doctrine and little about personal covenant.  In religious circles there is a lot of “Talk” about a personal relationship with G-d but not much about personal covenant.  I began to wonder why?  

 

I love to read scripture and decided to read all the scriptures G-d has provided in our modern era with a particular bias towards covenant.  The result was immediate and astonishing.  I started with the Old Testament and I was hit with every verse with insights (revelation?) that I had never before encountered.  Suddenly it seemed that the first chapters were not about what was going on concerning the doctrine of creation but the beginning of G-d’s establishing his covenant with man and the sacrificial effort of G-d to bring about a covenant with man.  Making the stuff of a universe was nothing; not compared the divine effort to bring about the immortality and eternal life of man (as agents of righteousness through man’s individual agency) – this is the real message of the creation epoch in Genesis. 

 

How does man become changed by G-d?  There is only one way or path and that is through individual personal covenant.  Covenant is the real basis of a relationship with the true and living G-d.   The false temptation is that a relationship with G-d is through doctrine.  The only way to learn the true doctrine of G-d is through accepting and keeping our covenants with him.  It is the foundation of the difference between the letter and the spirit of the law.  

 

Every message we read, every blog, every scripture every movie we see and every song of music we hear has a bias, purpose and affect.  If we search for doctrine through these things we will be driven by every wind of doctrine and lost in a sea of confusion.  However, if we filter what is input to us through our covenants and the effect such has on our personal covenant the value of input because unmistakable. 

 

Our purpose as Latter-day Saints is not so much to follow but to become to be an individual light in the darkness and an example.  The covenant of consecration given in the law of consecration is not to make the church great and ready for Christ to return but to prepare - making individuals great and ready for Christ to return.  This preparation is about covenants.  The only purpose of doctrine is to bring us to covenant.  Except a man covenant (become borne of the spirit and the water) they cannot enter the kingdom of G-d.  The doctrine (in this example – the doctrine of being born again) will only give us something to argue about and disagree over.  It is the covenant made individually as an agent of the covenant that will make us a new creature and a saint of G-d.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Traveler

[The Folk Prophet]

Ok, rephrasing: I am merely one voice...I didn't mean to say I am the only voice...and if there truly are millions, then I rejoice with you and praise my God. We are closer than ever!

 

Well...who knows how many.

 

I think there needs to be a good solid balance of understanding that falls somewhere between all is well in Zion, and, we suck so bad and we all need to repent because the whole church is astray and another restoration is necessary (a la Snuffer and his ilk).

 

Certainly all is not well in Zion. But there are, just as certainly, a great many humble, faithful servants of God working to bring about Zion with all their might, mind and strength.

[skalenfehl]

...We may think we have a testimony, but then the rains come, and then our house that is built upon the sand, and not upon the rock--our Savior, will wash away, and it profiteth us nothing.  I think I better learn what charity is and become that type of person.  And, hopefully, I will be caught up and not burned.

 

I loved your post, classylady, thank you. I have been pondering this for a long time and continually asking what I yet lack and then working on it. I have learned that when you ask for the Lord to teach you charity, He will do it by breaking your heart. For example, as an adoptive father to now full grown boys-men-who have been in and out of jail/prison, the Lord is teaching me what it means to have the pure love of Christ that persuades, that is meek, that is gentle, that is patient, that is longsuffering, etc. A broken heart is what the Lord has been working with as He molds me into a new creature. By learning to do, I am slowly becoming. I, too, hope that I will be caught up and not burned, not because I don't want to be burned, but rather because I want more than anything to be with my Savior.  

[Ratbag]

As I read through these posts, one thing keeps coming to my mind about the problem: pride.  As long as Satan and his billions of devils and unclean spirits are permitted to torment mankind, inequality will always exist.  One person may have more in possessions and wealth, but this is his trial in life: will he use his wealth and possession righteously.  His pride gets in the way and he uses his wealth for comfort: nice, big house, fancy car, nice clothes, boat, etc. 

 

However, on the flip side is the pride of the poor.  The down trodden can have just as much pride as the privileged.  I like what President Benson said:

 

 

Most of us consider pride to be a sin of those on the top, such as the rich and the learned, looking down at the rest of us. (See 2 Ne. 9:42.) There is, however, a far more common ailment among us—and that is pride from the bottom looking up. It is manifest in so many ways, such as faultfinding, gossiping, backbiting, murmuring, living beyond our means, envying, coveting, withholding gratitude and praise that might lift another, and being unforgiving and jealous.  "Beware of Pride," Ensign May 1989

 

All that said, it all comes down to one thing I keep telling my wife and kids:  It doesn't matter what anyone else does, it only matters what I do.

[skalenfehl]

Ratbag, well said. It reminds me of Nephi quoting Isaiah:

 

 

2 Nephi 12: 7 Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots.

 8 Their land is also full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made.

 9 And the mean man boweth not down, and the great man humbleth himself not, therefore, forgive him not.

[Ratbag]

Deleted.  Already covered.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Ratbag