Why Is Alcohol Forbidden When Wine Is Recommended To Timothy In The Nt

[a-train]

Alcohol wasn't forbidden until the 1800's, the New Testament was written before the 1800's.

-a-train

[prisonchaplain]

Quick in string poll: Do you abstain from coffee primarily because it could be bad for you, and the WoW offers a healthful command, or simply because it has been commanded?

IMHO, the prohibition on alcohol and tobacco, while conservative, does not cause LDS to stand apart, so much as the ban on coffee does. And, from this outsider's view, it is one means by which Joseph Smith set his LDS followers apart from other believers. This is not to argue against it, but rather to suggest: is health really the primary benefit from observing these restrictions?

[shanstress70]

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That made me laugh hysterically, ck. So much so that I'm taking one hour or so to tell you about it via the blackberry. This is a painstaking process as I'm still learning. Peace out till sunday everyone... Me and the family are off to the mtns to get out of the 104 degrees that its been in raleigh.

who's tending the chickens??????? (will they become broilers while you're gone, in that 104 degree heat?)

My neighbor and friend is taking care of them... she loves them. And now I have built-in incentive for her to come feed the cat and take care of the chickens... eggs!

They stay pretty cool under the branches of the trees and under the deck. Ice water helps too... yes, they're babied chickens!

Had a great time in the mountains playing in the river. And it was nice and cool! But now I'm in the heat again.

[sixpacktr]

Quick in string poll: Do you abstain from coffee primarily because it could be bad for you, and the WoW offers a healthful command, or simply because it has been commanded?

IMHO, the prohibition on alcohol and tobacco, while conservative, does not cause LDS to stand apart, so much as the ban on coffee does. And, from this outsider's view, it is one means by which Joseph Smith set his LDS followers apart from other believers. This is not to argue against it, but rather to suggest: is health really the primary benefit from observing these restrictions?

My reason is because it is commanded, PC. There are studies each way for why is it good or bad for you, take your pick. Caffeine is a bad thing, but I think you'd have an instant rebellion if you told Mormons that the Lord decided to add "Diet Coke" to the list!

I love the smell of brewing coffee, but can't stand the taste. Too bitter (I have only partaken 2 or 3 times, all by accident, all in Japan, where it is the national drink. They have candies and everything else that are coffee flavored, and when I was a greenie in Okinawa and before I could really read the labels on things, I bought some Ice Coffee, thinking it was Chocolate Milk. I mean, it was next to the milk, and the container was brown! How was I to know!). However, I would love it if they would tell us that tea is okay now. I absolutely love iced tea. I still remember how good it tasted when I was a kid before my dad joined the church. For a while Kool aid put out a product called 'lemon-t's' that had a hint of tea flavor in them (no real tea, just the flavoring). But apparently no one other than me bought it, so it was pulled...

[Guest Yediyd]

Sigh.....I miss my coffee!

...Didja get that, Elphaba?

[prisonchaplain]

I promise that I'm not trying to rub grounds in anyone's abstention. (bwaahahahahaha!)

[Elphaba]

Sigh.....I miss my coffee!

...Didja get that, Elphaba?

LOL

Yes, I got, and right back atcha!

Elphie

[a-train]

'And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones; And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures; And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.' (D&C 89:18-20)

I have always looked to that knowledge part as it is obviously the reward that can be the most quickly attained. However, if I die of lung cancer in great ignorance in spite of obedience to the those sayings, I will not count my faithfulness as worthless, but rather I trust that every effort to obey the LORD is written in the Book of Life and is smiled upon from on high. Perhaps going without the blessings of health and wisdom in this life is a test through which one must pass and not a reward for any evil deed.

-a-train

[the Ogre]

Quick in string poll: Do you abstain from coffee primarily because it could be bad for you, and the WoW offers a healthful command, or simply because it has been commanded?

IMHO, the prohibition on alcohol and tobacco, while conservative, does not cause LDS to stand apart, so much as the ban on coffee does. And, from this outsider's view, it is one means by which Joseph Smith set his LDS followers apart from other believers. This is not to argue against it, but rather to suggest: is health really the primary benefit from observing these restrictions?

Coffee . . . ewwww! I hate the stuff because it smells and tastes like airports and truckstops. I do miss wine, but not cigs (the smell!).

Sometimes, I think obiedience is only for the purpose of obiedience regardless of rationalization. I like to think there are health reasons, but science is constantly saying sometimes WoW restrictions make no logical sense. My reasons for quitting booze was however because I binged and was addicted. It was time to quit. I did not want it to affect my children and there was no way I could stop at only one glass, cup, sippy-cup, yatzee-cup, big-gulp cup, 500ml mug, bowling alley pitcher, fifth, bottle or case. I was out of control and so I had to stop.

Now, I use religion as a way to prop-up my weak will-power. I get cravings all the time, but I pray and the L-rd helps me out.

All I know about coffee, other then the stench, is the ulcers my brother and uncle get from drinking it and that the only way to make it taste good is to fill half the cup with whiskey.

[Iggy]

Coffee . . . ewwww! I hate the stuff because it smells and tastes like airports and truckstops. I do miss wine, but not cigs (the smell!). EEEwwwww - talk about stench- the rancid wine mixed liberally with unwashed body of a wino - now that is a smell I never want to experience again. I bartended for 12 years and was married to an alcoholic for 28!

All I know about coffee, other then the stench, is the ulcers my brother and uncle get from drinking it and that the only way to make it taste good is to fill half the cup with whiskey. When I was drinking I liked the taste of whiskey - blended brands such as Candian Club or Seagrams 7 or even Rich & Rare- loved them Old Fashioneds. Once I quit, the only thing I craved was the sugar - I ate boxes of sugar cubes a day!!! Only once since I have quit have I had a craving. I quit in 1983, and this was last year that I got the craving. We were at a family reunion of my new husbands family (not members), his cousin in law was standing talking to us, he swirled his drink (yep, old fashioned) took a swallow, then laughed at something Husband said. I got quite a whiff of the whiskey, lemon and just a hint of bitters from his breath. My mouth watered, and my hand came up of it's own accord and nearly took the glass from him. My hand hit my Husbands elbow and that 'woke' me up. But right then I REALLY WANTED THAT DRINK We left about 10 minutes later, I was that shook up.

[pushka]

Awww, Iggy, I feel really sorry for you!!

Since I've not had any alcohol for 7 weeks, and had cut down lots leading up to then, I've craved all sorts of sweets and cakes which I normally don't even think about, even miss out going down the aisles for those items since I never craved them, now I just can't get enough of them...jelly sweets, caramels, chocolate! The list is endless, lol.

[shanstress70]

All I know about coffee, other then the stench, is the ulcers my brother and uncle get from drinking it and that the only way to make it taste good is to fill half the cup with whiskey.

90% of ulcers are caused by a bacterial infection (from Helicobacter pylori) that can be cured. It is a myth that ulcers are caused by coffee.

As far as your brother and uncle having to add something to their coffee to make it taste good, obviously they were drinking crappy coffee. They should try Paradiso House Blend, by Diedrich, which happens to be my favorite right now.

I absolutely LOVE coffee... can't get enough of it. I only allow myself 2 cups of caffeinated and switch to decaf for the rest of the day. For me, coffee has been very positive in that it has helped me lose weight. When I want something sweet, or dessert, I drink coffee instead. It's a great substitute.

[bunnzy]

I have a question - is it ok to drink cola? (pepsi or coke?) Is it one of those things of taking the wow too far? What about those energy drinks (Red Bull, V etc...) if you really need them? (studying, driving long distances etc.)

I am looking for quotes from church leaders regarding this subject... not peoples personal opinions, because i know some will say 'no way' and others will say 'thats fine'

So far as i know there is NO rule against coke, pepsi or red bull.

[sixpacktr]

I have a question - is it ok to drink cola? (pepsi or coke?) Is it one of those things of taking the wow too far? What about those energy drinks (Red Bull, V etc...) if you really need them? (studying, driving long distances etc.)

I am looking for quotes from church leaders regarding this subject... not peoples personal opinions, because i know some will say 'no way' and others will say 'thats fine'

So far as i know there is NO rule against coke, pepsi or red bull.

From my recollection Pres Kimball stated that he FELT we shouldn't drink cola drinks, but I can't remember where I read or heard that. There are also the faith promoting rumors of GAs visiting strict missionaries that decided that the WoW also includes no white bread, chocolate, colas, and were teaching such, and the GA buying them a Coke and a Hershey's bar and telling them to 'mellow out'.

My stomach won't permit me to drink colas anymore--the caffiene tears it up. I've never had Red Bull, Surge or any other of those energy drinks. I have had NoDoze (once) and never had it again. It was too intense for me.

To me, it is a personal thing. We aren't 'to be commanded in all things', and so it is up to what you feel it right. Since it tears me up, I think it is wrong for me to take it, but hey, that's me. :)

[bunnzy]

i hadnt even considered chocolate,

i would love to find out which GA that was!!! thats so great.

[sixpacktr]

I grew up in the Quad Cities, on the Iowa side, and our ward was full of Palmer College of Chiropractic students that would get up in testimony meetings and testify about the dangers of white bread, chocolate, starches, sugar, etc., etc., etc. Oh, and how they couldn't wait to leave the hell that was Iowa so that they could go back to Utah. Needless to say, that really grated on me.

Anyway, the WoW is very simple, and we needn't read any more into it than what is there. I have stated before that most of the temple recommend holder's really do NOT follow the WoW. To me, being overweight breaks the WoW. Eating too much meat does so as well. We focus on the DON'Ts and kind of pass over the DOs. BTW, I do both of the above, so I'm not pointing at anyone other than me. Exercise is part of the WoW. Ugh! RIght now we have a swimming pool, and so it isn't bad because I love swimming and being in the water. But once Sept comes around I have to close it up and go back to walking or lifting weights, etc., it will be pure drudgery...

[CrimsonKairos]

NOTE: Sorry, I don't have any quotes from GA's on this...but I want to respond anyway!

As sixpack pointed out, the WoW contains principles beyond what the DON'Ts entail.

But getting back to the DON'Ts, I would state one of those principles as: "Do not take substances into your body that can become addictive and/or cause serious harm to your body."

Can caffeine become addictive? Sure. However, I have no problem drinking a Dr. Pepper when I'm driving a long distance and need to stay awake, etc...

If you're drinking a Dr. Pepper everyday and have a horrible headache if you don't have one and it starts to effect your ability to be happy and productive and kind...then it might start to be a violation of the WoW's principle I mentioned above.

Also, different people have different abilities to handle different subtances (I'm not talking about the outright prohibited substances like alcohol and tobacco). If you go through the roof after drinking one Coke, caffeine is probably something you want to stay away from.

However, all in all, as long as it doesn't become something you're addicted to or unable to handle, I don't see Heavenly Father refusing to let you live with Him because you used caffeinated soda's or energy drinks to help in certain circumstances.

p.s. This standard of "as long as you aren't addicted to it or if you can handle it it's okay" doesn't apply to the specifically prohibited substances such as alcohol, tobacco, "hot drinks," etc... Since caffeinated sodas and energy drinks aren't listed, the above is how I approach such things according to the principles of the WoW as I understand them.

[Iggy]

NOTE: Sorry, I don't have any quotes from GA's on this...but I want to respond anyway!

As sixpack pointed out, the WoW contains principles beyond what the DON'Ts entail.

But getting back to the DON'Ts, I would state one of those principles as: "Do not take substances into your body that can become addictive and/or cause serious harm to your body."

Can caffeine become addictive? Sure. However, I have no problem drinking a Dr. Pepper when I'm driving a long distance and need to stay awake, etc...

If you're drinking a Dr. Pepper everyday and have a horrible headache if you don't have one and it starts to effect your ability to be happy and productive and kind...then it might start to be a violation of the WoW's principle I mentioned above.

Also, different people have different abilities to handle different subtances (I'm not talking about the outright prohibited substances like alcohol and tobacco). If you go through the roof after drinking one Coke, caffeine is probably something you want to stay away from.

However, all in all, as long as it doesn't become something you're addicted to or unable to handle, I don't see Heavenly Father refusing to let you live with Him because you used caffeinated soda's or energy drinks to help in certain circumstances.

p.s. This standard of "as long as you aren't addicted to it or if you can handle it it's okay" doesn't apply to the specifically prohibited substances such as alcohol, tobacco, "hot drinks," etc... Since caffeinated sodas and energy drinks aren't listed, the above is how I approach such things according to the principles of the WoW as I understand them.

Your post made me review my life, CK. I totally understand the addiction of cigarettes and alcohol. Been there, quit and made it through the withdrawls and have been 100% successful in not succumbing to the cravings.

In april of this year I was diagnosed as a Type 2 Diabetic. Not much surprise there as my entire family are type 2 diabetics - it was bound to happen to me.

I have been going to a diabetic specialist/nutritionist to learn what to eat, when to eat it and how to keep from having to take injections of insulin. I want to get better, not just maintain.

I have been on a low carbohydrate diet. I am to eat 45 grams of carbs per meal, three meals a day for a total of 135 grams a day. This is a bit high for women, but the normal for men. I real labels now - and I am doing a fairly good job of balancing the carbs. I also have to have 15 grams of protien and 15 grams of fat per meal. Protien and fat slow down the absorbtion of sugar and also get the sugar to the proper organs.

I was going in to see either the Dr or the Specialist on the average of every two weeks, and at each visit I was weighed and my BP was taken. At each visit I had lost 1 to 3 pounds, and my blood pressure was slowly coming down.

On the 17th of July I had lost a total of 12 pounds and my blood pressure was in the normal range (can not remember the numbers.)

My husband absolutely loves vanilla ice cream - and I generally have a half gallon in the freezer for him. I like an occasional cone maybe once every few months. I prefer chocolate bars and no I haven't been eating them since my diagnosis.

Well, I had a dish of ice cream the other night. One solid scoop of vanilla ice cream. It tasted like ambrosia to me. Rich, creamy and delightfully sweet! Almost too sweet. 4 months of not having any candy or sweets - no jam on the toast or pbj sandwiches, so sugar in the pero- use splenda now. I was up all night on such a sugar high! My ears were ringing, my blood count was clear up to 297!! My average is 137. I didn't get sleepy until 8 pm the following night! YIKES -

All this rambling comes to this part of your post:

However, all in all, as long as it doesn't become something you're addicted to or unable to handle,

I can not handle sugars anymore. Sugar in ice cream, granulated, powdered, brown sugar,honey, molassas (love that stuff!), candy, syrup, etc. I have to have carbs so my body can produce the sugar to energize it, but I now know what processed sugar does to me. Can we spell - Z I N G I N G all over the place!

Man, I am just too old to go on those sugar induced highs anymore. Plus sugar triggers the menopausal hot flashes! BLAH - Those side effects are enough to keep the processed sugars out of my mouth!

[CrimsonKairos]

I found that very interesting, Iggy. A good illustration of how customized each of our experiences are and how not everyone will need to avoid the same things for the same reasons.