Cops Crash Pool Party

[mirkwood]

[unixknight]

Did anyone here say anything about racism?  I must have missed that.

[NeuroTypical]

I haven't seen it in this thread, but my Facebook wall is alive with the claim.  

[bytor2112]

Mirkwood....those posts really don't fit the narrative that the media leftists and other dupes so easily swallow. Why I daresay that those posts were planted in order to justify yet more police abuse by a racist out of control cop. A cop....who resigned today and like Darren Wilson may never work in law enforcement again. 

 

Just more human debris strown by the media....that is never held accountable for the garbage they allege is news.

[Just_A_Guy]

I guess speaking for myself . . . I don't start mouthing off at anyone if I don't think I can beat them in the physical altercation that my mouthiness might provoke.  And I generally assume that, if anyone comes up and gets in my face and starts mouthing off at me, they similarly think they can physically subdue me.

 

So if I'm openly carrying a gun, and a taser, and a baton, and handcuffs, and someone still gets in my face and tries to mouth off at me . . . I'm going to draw certain conclusions, and those conclusions in conjunction with a mere flick of a wrist could very well result in someone getting shot.

 

(That's why I don't carry--either open or concealed--if anyone was wondering.  :)  )

Edited June 10, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Those tweets don't fit the narrative that the Police Chief is offering either...(and this from Fox News --not media Leftists)...I suppose if you want to call the police chief a dupe you could, by I respect him and the 11 other officers he mentions.  

 

McKinney Police Chief Greg Conley said Casebolt's actions were “indefensible” during a Tuesday evening press conference.

“He came into the call out of control and as the video shows was out of control during the incident.” Conley said. “I had 12 officers on the scene and 11 of them performed according to their training.”

The video of the Friday incident involving Casebolt at a McKinney neighborhood pool went viral and had initially landed Casebolt on administrative leave while police officials conduct an investigation.

Casebolt was seen pulling Dajerria Becton to the ground and pinning her with his knees while she cried out. He also pulled out his gun and pointed it at other teens and briefly ran after them before being stopped by two fellow McKinney police officers. Throughout the video Casebolt is heard repeatedly cursing.

“Our policies, our training, our practice do not support his actions,” Conley said.

http://www.fox4news.com/story/29279422/mckinney-officer-resigns-due-to-video-of-pulling-gun-on-teens#.VXdhHiP1BqA.facebook

 

 

[yjacket]

I'll enter the fray . . .since people prob. think of me as a "cop-basher". From my vantage point, the vast majority of the cops actions were justified and I really don't have much of a problem. Unlike many videos, the cop in general did not use excessive force. It wasn't 5-6 cops crushing a man to death, it was one cop trying to get individuals to comply.

 

I do have a problem when the cop pulled the gun; I do believe that was uncalled for.  It is pretty clear in the video that the blue shirt dude slipped; he placed his left foot close to the edge of the grass and it slipped onto the payment which caused his baggy pants to fall down (which you can see earlier in the video he pulls them up), so in the process of regaining his balance and pulling up his pants he reaches behind.

 

The cop obviously sees this move out of his peripheral vision (which is way more sensitive to movement than central vision). I think the cop was completely justified to put his hand on his holster, but drawing is IMO too much. IMO it better be a clear identified threat before drawing. At the point the cop is drawing the blue shirt guy is a) backing up and b) his hands are in front. Cop justified in putting hand on gun and addressing a possible threat, at the point of the draw, it is pretty obvious the guy is not a threat.  The video is not clear enough, but it is possible that it's a taser instead of a gun. If it's a taser, I still think it's a bad move that should require additional training and instruction. If it's a gun, I'm a lot harsher.

 

Pulling a gun is no joke and should only be used in a situation with an identified life threatening threat . . .but that's just me.

 

Flame away at the "cop-basher"!!

 

I have been in urban gun training and from a ready position, if one is good you can draw and fire really fast. 7 seconds to draw, aim fire and put 3 rounds downrange at 7m (21 ft) center mass, piece of cake, if one is good, 3-4 secs max.

The good o'l rules of guns (that for some reason some cops seem exempt from!). Rule II and Rule IV come into play here . . .

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET (i.e. Know what is behind your target and around your target)

Edited June 10, 2015 by yjacket

[Just_A_Guy]

Just a clarification, LP--and it's not directly germane to the issue at hand--but your link is not technically to FoxNews; it's to the local news station that happens to be an affiliate with the Fox television (not news) network.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[yjacket]

Rather than talk about this crap (which in my opinion is pretty minor).  What really gets my goat is crap like below:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/front-range/greenwood-village/owner-of-greenwood-village-house-blown-apart-by-swat-says-this-is-an-abomination-this-is-an-atrocity

 

This is the real problem!

[Palerider]

There is another video showing the fight at the pool by the trespassers...guess that doesn't really matter. I bet "the resident cop bashers" could have handled those poor little innocent children so much better. 

 

Some on this forum are so predictable...I knew this story would be on here with the predictable bashers. All of those bashing the cops, would have likely got your back sides kicked by those punks that absolutely would not follow any direction from the cop. 

 

The cops didn't crash the party as the title of this thread states. The police were called by the pool manangement because trespassers jumped the fence and crashed the party. 

 

Lot's more to this story....but don't let facts get in the way.

I recently told my Son in law that he made a bad career choice. I told him you Officers get beat up on the job and beat up by the media and everyone else for the way the Police do their job. The pay is poor and the job is dangerous. I have a neighbor across the street from me who is a Officer. I have another neighbor across from me who is a Highway Patrolman. I see these guys when they leave for work and always hope and pray they come home at the end of the day.

I wish we got worked up over Politicians the way we get worked up over a 7 minute video of a Police officer.

[Guest MormonGator]

I wish we got worked up over Politicians the way we get worked up over a 7 minute video of a Police officer.

Amen to that! 

[bytor2112]

Looks like the officer was offered up as a sacrifice to the "black lives matter" protest that appeared. 

[Palerider]

Looks like the officer was offered up as a sacrifice to the "black lives matter" protest that appeared.

I wish the community that gets all worked up with the Black Lives Matter would get just as worked up with their black on black crime in their neighborhoods. All lives do matter.

[unixknight]

I wish we got worked up over Politicians the way we get worked up over a 7 minute video of a Police officer.

 

When politicians start pointing guns at people I imagine we would.

 

So what blows my mind is how quickly some folks here will just write others off as mere "cop bashers" and disregard any point they might make, meanwhile the chief of police in this particular case has publicly acknowledged that this officer stepped out of line and STILL some of you guys want to be apologists for this individual.  Not good for the credibility of your side of the issue, guys.

 

Wanna mourn over the injustice of Michael Slager being indicted too?

 

I had no strong position on this incident before that so I'm inclined to take the Chief at his word 'cause, you know, he knows more about this case than all of us here combined.  I see this officer neither as a slobbering monster nor as a sacrificial lamb.  I see him as a guy who lost control of his temper in such a way that his superiors felt he transgressed.  Apparently this officer has been named in another, unrelated lawsuit before (in 2008) so this may be a pattern the Chief is reacting to.

[NightSG]

I wonder if the guy in the blue tshirt understands that reaching around behind your back when aggressively closing on a police officer is a good way to get shot.  Regardless, we're still under a second of tape here, look how fast dood closed in.  Dude in the blue tshirt is a clear, obvious threat.  Did he just go for the cops gun?  Is he reaching for one of his own?  The deal is, the cop gets to go home at the end of the day.  Blue tshirt dude needs to be dealt with.

 

 

What I'm seeing is a guy entering a low, squared off fighting stance while reaching for a back pocket or back of his belt or waistband.  Now, I'm right handed, but that just makes this a pretty exact mirror of the position I was in a few times while drawing an expandable baton.  At that distance, the intended target probably wouldn't actually have time to prevent the first strike at all.

I've also worked with plenty of people who carry a knife clipped into the back pocket, and I've used concealment holsters that kept my 1911 opposite just about where he's reaching.  Waiting to see the weapon would be way too late.

Edited June 10, 2015 by NightSG

[NeuroTypical]

Just out of curiosity, am I the only parent here who is actively teaching their kids how to deal with police if they get caught in something like this?

 

We're teaching them to not be in the middle of something like this in the first place.  But if they're caught in a situation and cops show up full of Adrenalin and start shouting orders, we're teaching our kids to just do what they're told.  No aggressive movements, no arguing, just 'yes sir' and 'no sir'.  We teach them that having a pair of cuffs slapped on you isn't the end of the world, it's something that lets the cops calm down.  I tell them our police chief's story about the only time he was ever injured by a suspect in handcuffs - a tiny 14 yr old girl smaller than my girls.  

 

Cops can't tell in an instant by looking who is innocent and wouldn't hurt a fly.  In such a situation, since there are bad guys out there, they have to act as if all those people are potential threats.

 

And blue tshirt dood really was acting like an idiot, and it's a darn shame he didn't get at least tazed.  Again, if he were my kid, the punishment would be one he would remember for the rest of his life.

[NightSG]

I have been in urban gun training and from a ready position, if one is good you can draw and fire really fast. 7 seconds to draw, aim fire and put 3 rounds downrange at 7m (21 ft) center mass, piece of cake, if one is good, 3-4 secs max.

 

Drop by any boxing ring sometime and have someone hit you as many times as they can in three seconds while your hands are otherwise occupied.  Even with the gloves I doubt you'll be able to stand up that long.

 

The thug was well within a lunge of the cop already.  From that distance, most fights are decided in less than three seconds; maybe not over, but somebody's already becoming less combat effective from the first contact.

[NightSG]

Just out of curiosity, am I the only parent here who is actively teaching their kids how to deal with police if they get caught in something like this?

 

Hands in full view, no sudden movements, if nobody's giving you orders, then slowly back away until you're outside the mess, then find yourself a comfy spot out of the way and sit down until it's over or somebody tells you otherwise.

 

Carry your ID, wear a shirt, (ever notice on Cops that the guy without a shirt always goes to jail?) and know the real first and last name of anyone you ride with, borrow a car from, deliver a sawed off shotgun and bag of white powder to, etc.

[unixknight]

We teach them that having a pair of cuffs slapped on you isn't the end of the world, it's something that lets the cops calm down. 

 

I just wanted to key into this comment here because it really stood out for me.  "It lets the cops calm down."  My problem is these are supposed to be the professionals who know how to keep a situation from escalating in the first place, and a comment like this sounds an awful lot like putting the burden of keeping things calm on the kid, not the trained professional.  

Not saying you think of it that way, but a lot of people who refuse to see error on the part of police use arguments very much like that to keep the finger of blame squarely on the citizen, and not the trained and armed professional.

 

Yes, people can be unpredictable, stupid, chaotic.  All true.  I never said cops were always wrong or that suspects were always victims.  Thankfully, most of the time they aren't, but in ALL CASES I expect the guys with the guns and badges to act like professionals, and while there are things people need to know to avoid inadvertently escalating the situation (keeping your hands out and visible, for example) I'm not about to say that the responsibility for keeping this calm doesn't rest on the guys whom we call "peace officers."

[yjacket]

What I'm seeing is a guy entering a low, squared off fighting stance while reaching for a back pocket or back of his belt or waistband.  Now, I'm right handed, but that just makes this a pretty exact mirror of the position I was in a few times while drawing an expandable baton.  At that distance, the intended target probably wouldn't actually have time to prevent the first strike at all.

I've also worked with plenty of people who carry a knife clipped into the back pocket, and I've used concealment holsters that kept my 1911 opposite just about where he's reaching.  Waiting to see the weapon would be way too late.

 

If you haven't learned by now that on the internet a single still can be made to look like just about anything; I guess you never will.

 

To your point above . . . .so what . . .big deal that this is that exact position.  Life doesn't happen in stills, it happens live. The live video clearly shows the guys foot slipping.

 

And it's a fact the officer was not looking straight at the guy and therefore it is impossible for the officer to process this stance. The officer was processing motion; the motion of the guy suddenly slipping was what alerted the officer to a possible threat, totally justified. There is no physical way the officer knew at this point in time what kind of a stance the guy was in, the officer just saw very quick motion (quick motion of slipping).  Again cop completely justified in addressing that possible threat.  Blue shirt guy backs up (non-threatening) and has hands in front (non-threatening).

 

Pulling the gun was not justified . . . addressing the threat was.

[yjacket]

The thug was well within a lunge of the cop already.  From that distance, most fights are decided in less than three seconds; maybe not over, but somebody's already becoming less combat effective from the first contact.

 

Calling the guy a thug (when he may or may not be), is already predisposition that no matter what this guy did or does, you're against him.

 

As far as a boxing ring . . .please give me a break.  I'm justified in pulling a gun on someone (in effect assaulting them) simply because I fear someone might be in a stance that might lead to a fight.  It is clear that the officer did not pull the gun immediately, it was only after the guy was backing away with hands in front after the threat could be ascertained to not be a physical fight.  The cop was frustrated (rightfully so) and in that one incident acted inappropriately (other than that I think the cop did a pretty good job).

 

Boy . . . I'd hate to live my life in fear of everything that someone might do.

Edited June 10, 2015 by yjacket

[yjacket]

Hands in full view, no sudden movements, if nobody's giving you orders, then slowly back away until you're outside the mess, then find yourself a comfy spot out of the way and sit down until it's over or somebody tells you otherwise.

 

Carry your ID, wear a shirt, (ever notice on Cops that the guy without a shirt always goes to jail?) and know the real first and last name of anyone you ride with, borrow a car from, deliver a sawed off shotgun and bag of white powder to, etc.

 

Why ID . . . what is this Nazi Germany . . . papers please?  Seriously, it is (or is supposed to be) a free country . . . no laws require one to have an ID.

[Just_A_Guy]

I just wanted to key into this comment here because it really stood out for me.  "It lets the cops calm down."  My problem is these are supposed to be the professionals who know how to keep a situation from escalating in the first place, and a comment like this sounds an awful lot like putting the burden of keeping things calm on the kid, not the trained professional. 

 

I can't speak as to this case specifically--I'd like to think that the police chief is speaking out of the fact that he knows something I don't, rather than cynically trying to forestall a riot by offering a scapegoat.  But as a general proposition:  While I have no love for a police state and I'm probably about as concerned about personal privacy as the next guy, I'm not sure I look to cops as traveling shrinks whose primary role is to rove the streets twenty-four hours per day and help the bad guys self-soothe.

 

I look to cops to, at least reactively (not a fan of pre-emptive police intervention) quell disturbances and get the bad guys off the streets by any means necessary. That's very often going to entail the use of force,which s never pleasant to behold and can easily get out-of-hand.

 

Nevertheless, I'm not going to expect a cop with two years at the academy to--at peril of his own life--instantly recall and apply conflict-resolution techniques that psychologists, psychiatrists, and other mental health counselors often have trouble successfully applying over a period of hours or even months. 

[NeuroTypical]

"It lets the cops calm down."  My problem is these are supposed to be the professionals who know how to keep a situation from escalating in the first place, and a comment like this sounds an awful lot like putting the burden of keeping things calm on the kid, not the trained professional.  

 

 

Well, cops are trained professionals.  When they decide that its time to start shouting out orders and controlling the situation, then they will never, ever, ever stop shouting until the situation is controlled.  Then they'll calm down.  Yeah, if my kid decides to be a stumbling block to the situation getting under control, then yes indeed, they should expect continued and escalating yelling and orders and stuff from the cops, until they are no longer a stumbling block.  Right or wrong, real threat or imagined, once a cop switches on, he won't be switching off until he decides he's got good reason to.

 

I guess it sounds how it sounds, but it's reality, and I don't see the point in telling my kids something that isn't reality.

[NightSG]

Calling the guy a thug (when he may or may not be), is already predisposition that no matter what this guy did or does, you're against him.

 

 

Only three types of people aggressively run toward a cop who's in the process of making an arrest.  He's clearly neither backup nor a lawyer, so that leaves thug.