I feel like we're in a cult

[Backroads]

We actually had a fairly good day at church yesterday. That's sort of awful to say because my husband woke up not feeling well...but because of that we were able to ride to church in the same vehicle for the first time in over 6 months AND leave together afterwards! So it was really nice to have some help and get to eat lunch together. :)

 

Snarky possible option for your husband: have a headache for the next odd months until they alter the conditions of his calling.

[omegaseamaster75]

Your husband needs to man up and set some boundaries with his presidency.

[Guest MormonGator]

The OP does raise a good point. Sometimes the church does seem to ask too much. I've shot down the missionaries or the church before if they ask something I can't do. No has a powerful effect on people. It tells them to stop and re-evaluate. 

[The Folk Prophet]

Sometimes the church does seem to ask too much.

 

The church doesn't ask too much. Some people in the church might sometimes. But not the church.

 

Just so we're clear, let's quote Joseph Smith:

 

“A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has the power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation.” 

 

The church (or religion) asks for all. Everything. A complete, total, absolute, giving of yourself and all you are, have, and will ever be.

 

But that, of course, is not the same as a fallible person misunderstanding one's time, ability and needs and thereby putting more on them than they should.

Edited November 23, 2015 by The Folk Prophet

[Guest MormonGator]

The church doesn't ask too much. Some people in the church might sometimes. But not the church.

 

 

 Of course, but practically speaking the church asks too much. In particular of it's newer members who could feel overwhelmed by everything.  Someone who is more quiet and might feel odd about saying no to someone would have a hard time feeling like a good LDS in standing but also saying "No" when they feel uncomfortable. I'm with them- take a deep breath, absorb it all-but it's okay to say no.

 

And of course there is a difference between "the church" and the people in it. For a newbie though, that might be hard to differentiate between the two. 

 

In my view only the worst thing you can do to a newbie (and I am one of them) is tell them to "Shut up and deal." No FP, I'm not saying you personally are doing that.

One of the best things about being LDS is you can bring up tough questions (I don't like going to the temple, no one has ever said "Gator, you are awful! How dare you!) and no one cares. I'm glad newbies can ask them. 

Edited November 23, 2015 by MormonGator

[The Folk Prophet]

 Of course, but practically speaking the church asks too much. In particular of it's newer members who could feel overwhelmed by everything.  Someone who is more quiet and might feel odd about saying no to someone would have a hard time feeling like a good LDS in standing but also saying "No" when they feel uncomfortable. I'm with them- take a deep breath, absorb it all-but it's okay to say no.

 

And of course there is a difference between "the church" and the people in it. For a newbie though, that might be hard to differentiate between the two. 

 

In my view only the worst thing you can do to a newbie (and I am one of them) is tell them to "Shut up and deal." No FP, I'm not saying you personally are doing that.

One of the best things about being LDS is you can bring up tough questions (I don't like going to the temple, no one has ever said "Gator, you are awful! How dare you!) and no one cares. I'm glad newbies can ask them. 

 

Of course some people are going to feel overwhelmed. But, "practically" speaking, "the church" isn't asking anywhere near what it has or could. Look at the early history. New members all. But uproot your lives, move to Ohio or Missouri or Illinois, from Europe, give everything you have to the church -- literally -- and live the United Order, take on several wives, oh...now move again...and whoops...now again, go across the plains to Utah, lose three children that you can't even bury and have to leave to the wolves, and now you're here...well...move again...go settle Harriman, or Saint George, or Tooele...and let's try that United Order thing again. Tooele's established. Well now go settle somewhere else. Now leave all your wives and children (those that didn't die coming across the plains) to fend for themselves and head out for 5 years to preach the gospel.

 

The faithful LDS forebearers actually did all of this. And yet we like to complain about how tough it is to have to go to church activities.

 

Perspective.

[Guest MormonGator]

Of course some people are going to feel overwhelmed. But, "practically" speaking, "the church" isn't asking anywhere near what it has or could. Look at the early history. New members all. But uproot your lives, move to Ohio or Missouri or Illinois, from Europe, give everything you have to the church -- literally -- and live the United Order, take on several wives, oh...now move again...and whoops...now again, go across the plains to Utah, lose three children that you can't even bury and have to leave to the wolves, and now you're here...well...move again...go settle Harriman, or Saint George, or Tooele...and let's try that United Order thing again. Tooele's established. Well now go settle somewhere else. Now leave all your wives and children (those that didn't die coming across the plains) to fend for themselves and head out for 5 years to preach the gospel.

 

The faithful LDS forebearers actually did all of this. And yet we like to complain about how tough it is to have to go to church activities.

 

Perspective.

Perspective goes both ways. Faithful LDS (and I'm one of them) should be more open to the frustrations of newbies as well. 

I have no idea about your backstory FP. Are you a lifelong member? Yes, that question IS important because sometimes lifelong LDS can't understand a newbies perspective. That's not an insult. I can't understand what it's like to grow up LDS either. 

Edited November 23, 2015 by MormonGator

[The Folk Prophet]

Perspective goes both ways. Faithful LDS (and I'm one of them) should be more open to the frustrations of newbies as well. 

 

What does that mean? "Open"?

[Guest MormonGator]

What does that mean? "Open"?

It means "able to listen to them and address their concerns in a proper way." The last thing a newbie needs is to jumped on and lectured to. No, I'm not saying you are doing either one. It's just my thoughts. 

Edited November 23, 2015 by MormonGator

[Guest MormonGator]

And you don't have to change your view and the church certainly doesn't have to change theirs. But, if you treat newbies disrespectfully you have no right to ask why they left the church. 

[The Folk Prophet]

Gator, I'm not sure why you're trying to set up an us vs. them dynamic between lifers and newbies. The call from Christ is the same. Take His yoke upon you. That can be railed against in behalf of newbies and it doesn't change a thing. Putting it in terms of disrespect is a misdirect. I am not advocating disrespect, nor is it fair to imply I am. The call is the call. The gospel asks for sacrifice. We must learn sacrifice. Yes, it's line upon line. Yes, we need to be understanding and patient. But the reality doesn't change. The only growth one can make in this regard is by softening one's heart and sacrificing. Sacrifice can be painful. But an attitude that taking away the need to sacrifice is a proper solution is a disservice. 

[Guest]

We're called to the same discipleship, whenever we are converted; but I imagine there is a huge shift in thinking that has to happen when you're new to the Church (and its culture), vs growing up with it and always being familiar with it. 

[Guest MormonGator]

Gator, I'm not sure why you're trying to set up an us vs. them dynamic between lifers and newbies. The call from Christ is the same. Take His yoke upon you. That can be railed against in behalf of newbies and it doesn't change a thing. Putting it in terms of disrespect is a misdirect. I am not advocating disrespect, nor is it fair to imply I am. The call is the call. The gospel asks for sacrifice. We must learn sacrifice. Yes, it's line upon line. Yes, we need to be understanding and patient. But the reality doesn't change. The only growth one can make in this regard is by softening one's heart and sacrificing. Sacrifice can be painful. But an attitude that taking away the need to sacrifice is a proper solution is a disservice. 

It's not us vs them, I totally understand your view. 

I wasn't saying you were disrespectful. Sorry it came out that way. Not in the least. 

Reality is that newbies often times feel overwhelmed. Reality is that lifelong members often times can't see why.  That's literally it. No disrespect at all. In fact, I learn a tremendous amount from your posts and look forward to them greatly. Again, I apologize if it came out as "disrespectful". Not my intention at all.

 

But in a way, it shows the lack of communication between newbies and lifelong members. Sure, we are all in this together in the long run, but reality is reality. Just because we are a big family (and we are) doesn't mean we can have disagreements or something.  It's fine, it's just life.

It also helps to learn how newbies speak and think, because we can get more converts that way. We need to be able to listen without watering down the teachings. 

 

Edited November 24, 2015 by MormonGator

[Athena9]

Sweetie, nice to read the post you shared. Take it from an 'ole mare who's been around here for awhile:

you and your dear spouse have now HIT THE WALL and ARE NOW ALL  BURNED OUT.  DON"T, whatever you do, DON"T FEEL GUILTY.  DON"T take on anymore RESPONSIBILITIES. I would be seriously 

surprised if you're not CLINICALLY DEPRESSED (fairly common in Mormon Women, unfortunately) to whatever degree and just cruis'n for some sort of related HEALTH PROBLEM (ulcers, migraines, irritable bowl syndrome, etc.)  For Heaven sake... DO NOT LET PEOPLE GUILD TRIP YOU OR YOUR HUSBAND. 

 

What has happened is that you and your husband are young and fairly rare members in a very small LDS branch of old/elderly people ..... and ..... your're being  WAY OVER USED.  AND IT WILL CONTINUE 

UNLESS YOU TAKE ACTION TO HELP YOURSELVES. (I KNOW what I am talking about, as I personally have intimately witnessed this very situation.) 

 

The CHURCH ITSELF SAYS that NOTHING is MORE IMPORTANT than :THE FAMILY.  You have the GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO ATTEND TO YOUR YOUNG CHILDREN FIRST.  Especially at this age and phase of their growth. 

 

HERE'S WHAT YOU DO:  Have your husband go to your bishop/branch president and TELL HIM YOU are having issues that REQUIRE CLOSER COMPANIONSHIP FROM HIM, rest,  and a cutting way down on your church duties. (He has PROBABLY heard this before.) Then go out and do leisurely family time, having THAT ALWAYS as your FIRST PRIORITY. 

 

This is NOT a lie, because the NEXT THING I AM GOING TO SAY IS ---- GO TO YOUR FAMILY DOCTOR and ---TELL HIM ABOUT ALL OF THIS...... it's ENTIRELY POSSIBLE YOU are CLINICALLY DEPRESSED and NEED blood tests, counseling, vitamins, psychoactive medication, etc. A large portion of LDS SISTERS take serotonin uptake (anti-depression) meds and they can be a life saver. I wouldn't be surprised if your poor body/mind aren't completely wrung out.  

 

Go with God, Girl. God bless you, your Husband and little family! 

 

 

[LilyBelle00]

Just to let those who care know, we had our baby boy on Tuesday, Nov 24. He was 7.3 and 20 1/2 inches long. He's beautiful and perfect!!

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Just to let those who care know, we had our baby boy on Tuesday, Nov 24. He was 7.3 and 20 1/2 inches long. He's beautiful and perfect!!

 

Congratulations!!!  How wonderful.  Enjoy your baby moon. 

[Guest]

Just to let those who care know, we had our baby boy on Tuesday, Nov 24. He was 7.3 and 20 1/2 inches long. He's beautiful and perfect!!

 

Congratulations!  Yeay!  He sounds perfect.

[Guest MormonGator]

 He sounds perfect.

 Hey, you are looking at perfection incarnate.   

[Backroads]

Hooray for babies!

[Athena9]

You and your husband need to scale WAY BACK on the callings and church stuff, Sweetie. You SOUND ALL BURNED

OUT, possibly even DEPRESSED, which by the way, is NOT an uncommon ailment for WOMEN in this CHURCH and the PSYCH wards of Utah hospitals are running over with them. In MY OWN WARD HALF  of the SISTERS in Relief Society are on PROZAC or a similar anti-depressant. This Church has NEVER SAID that the LDS Church should come before the family. If you and your family  have so many Church commitments  that it is infringing on quality , you have TOO MANY commitments and desperately need for the sake of YOUR HEALTH and young FAMILY to say NO. Have your HUSBAND go to the BISHOP and TELL HIM that you, my Dear, are having significant HEALTH ISSUES and that the both of you must SCALE BACK on

all of your Church callings, Church obligations, etc indefinitely

 

God Bless You!.   

[unixknight]

One of the things that attracted me to the Church was that we're encouraged to think for ourselves, and pray for guidance.  That's really important because it means not only that we will all ultimately join together since the answers are coming from the same source, but it also means Church leadership isn't afraid of the answers we get, because what God says will be consistent across all levels.

 

This is why there's no room for Pharisaical thinking.  Certain matters are set in stone, yes, and that's as it should be.  On the other hand many are not.  If a Branch Prez is running the branch in such a way as to make members feel burned out and guilty, then that needs to be addressed.  If meetings are running long because they turn into social chit-chat sessions rather than addressing the business of the branch, then that needs to be addressed.  if a family is on the verge of going inactive because of these issues then they need to be addressed in a more compassionate and constructive manner than "They just need to suck it up." 

 

If that happened to me, I'd speak up.  Communication is essential.  If the Branch Prez won't listen, or if he won't engage the discussion constructively, then I'd escalate my concerns to the Stake Prez.  All the while I'd include prayer, to avoid letting my frustrations and maybe anger get in the way of being clearheaded and reasonable.  If the problems are this severe, then the Stake Prez should be able to resolve it.  If they aren't, maybe he could then help offer a perspective that makes it easier to deal with.

 

In any case, blowing off people's concerns because that's easier than acknowledging that somebody in charge may be screwing up is NOT helping. 

 

I know what it's like to be taken advantage of as a side effect of a calling.  I used to be a 2nd Counselor in the Elders' Quorum and there was a member who I would Home Teach who thought that meant I could be used as his personal taxi and moving service.  It even caused me to miss most of my son's birthday party once.  When I finally manned up and drew the reasonable line, he threatened to go to the Elders' Quorum Prez and complain about me.  My response:  "Go ahead.  Need me to give you his number?"  Needless to say, the Elders' Quorum Prez backed me up, and so did the Bishop. 

 

My point here is that we MUST use our own discernment and judgement.  We are called to serve, and serve we shall, but that isn't the same as being a drone.

 

Church leaders at all levels need to be aware of, and sensitive to, the needs of those they are responsible for.  If they fail in that, it must be addressed.  Period.  In no organization I've ever heard of do successful leaders respond to problems by saying "Just suck it up and deal with it."  Sometimes the person raising the concern is legitimately in the wrong, in which case an open and loving conversation will bring that out.  In other cases, the people in charge need to re-evaluate their approach.  It's all to the good IF minds and hearts are open.

 

Sorry for the length of this post.  I guess I had more to say than I realized.

Edited December 8, 2015 by unixknight