Have You Been To - Heard About - One Of These Things?

[prisonchaplain]

This sounds truly fascinating. Anybody know about this . . .

http://www.standingtogether.org/nsdc_poster.html

[Josie]

Have not heard of it PC, but it sounds awesome.

[the Ogre]

It sounds like a great thing. I've watched similar things. I am however skeptical of any real dialogue or understanding. Apologeticists tend to build such high walls that they are often incapable of listening without some sort of response in mind.

Personally, I think evenagelicals share a lot with LDS, but are not willing to accept LDS positions. The little trolls who blast this site and others illustrate this only too well.

[prisonchaplain]

Without denying any of the Ogre's reservations, perhaps the glass is 10% full (rather than 90% empty)?

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/156/story_15656_1.html

(President of evangelical seminary apologizes to LDS)

[the Ogre]

PC,

I would like one day for all faiths to unified. I think the S-vior wants the same thing. We have to stop sniping at each other. I, however, think this will be a long way off. Maybe it will be the S-vior himself who do this task.

Aaron the Ogre

[prisonchaplain]

People ask me all the time whether or not religion really makes a difference in the life of inmates (translation--do they stop commiting crimes when they get out?). My answer, "I don't know...but I do not need 100% effectiveness. In fact, if I have a part in turning even a few each year, that's somebody going out who is not going to steal your identity, write phony checks at your business, take filthy pictures of your kids, or who knows what."

We may never see the day in our lifetime when the majority of evangelicals and LDS are able to talk calmly and with AGAPE love towards one another. However, if we can even turn a few foolishly argumentative souls towards more Christlike dialogue, perhaps we've done what Jesus expects of us?

[Elphaba]

Dr. Robert Millet has passed away, so they will have to find a replacement for him.

I agree with PC that the walls seem to be coming down a bit, though I can certainly understand Aaron's feelings. I've gone on boards with Evangelicals who are so full of malice against Mormons it stuns me.

It seems to me that the Latter-day Saints could benefit from this as much as the other participants. From recent experience, I feel like they think "You're either with us or you're against us." I don't really believe that, but that's how I'm feeling lately.

Elphaba

[the Ogre]

People ask me all the time whether or not religion really makes a difference in the life of inmates (translation--do they stop commiting crimes when they get out?). My answer, "I don't know...but I do not need 100% effectiveness. In fact, if I have a part in turning even a few each year, that's somebody going out who is not going to steal your identity, write phony checks at your business, take filthy pictures of your kids, or who knows what."

We may never see the day in our lifetime when the majority of evangelicals and LDS are able to talk calmly and with AGAPE love towards one another. However, if we can even turn a few foolishly argumentative souls towards more Christlike dialogue, perhaps we've done what Jesus expects of us?

OI!

[Snow]

This sounds truly fascinating. Anybody know about this . . .

http://www.standingtogether.org/nsdc_poster.html

I'm pretty sure I've posted about this a couple times.

It's sounds like an outgrowth of the Mormon and Evangelical in Dialogue I told you about.

Dr. Robert Millet has passed away, so they will have to find a replacement for him.

When?

Where did you read that?

[Annabelli]

Evangelism is not an organized church. It's just a program that they are selling which is pronounced "money, money, money." They conduct their business on the pulpits of another man's church or a football stadium.

They should be listed under "opportunities" in the classifieds with all the other fakes, frauds and scammers.

[Elphaba]

Dr. Robert Millet has passed away, so they will have to find a replacement for him.

When?

Where did you read that?

Well, obviously I didn't.

I don't know who I'm thinking of, but Dr. Millet is alive and kicking.

Hope I didn't scare you!

Elphaba

[bunnzy]

What are the main differences between evangelism and mormonism anyway?

[pushka]

Sounds like a very interesting discussion.

In the town where I live, as their are lots of Asians, we have interfaith groups and often talk together about Christianity and Islam. I have yet to attend one of the meetings, but would love to do so.

[sacred1]

What are the main differences between evangelism and mormonism anyway?

There are way too many to talk about here, but some basic evangelical beliefs are: The Trinity (Father,Son,Holy Ghost are one in substance), the infallibility of the Bible and a closed canon of scriptures, salvation by grace alone, those that do not believe exactly what they do will go to hell, even if they were good people, they don't believe in vicarious ordinances, and based on their television shows, I get the feeling that they think all muslims are bad and that they can invoke the power of God at will.

[prisonchaplain]

I'm pretty sure I've posted about this a couple times.

It's sounds like an outgrowth of the Mormon and Evangelical in Dialogue I told you about.

You have mentioned going to these types of seminars in CA. BUT...I found the internet link.

Evangelism is not an organized church. It's just a program that they are selling which is pronounced "money, money, money." They conduct their business on the pulpits of another man's church or a football stadium.

They should be listed under "opportunities" in the classifieds with all the other fakes, frauds and scammers.

Wow. So much for standing together. I guess President Hinkley felt differently. When he was asked to allow evanglist Revi Zacharia to speak at the Tabernacle, his response was, "Sounds like a good idea." It happened in 2005.

<div class='quotemain'>

What are the main differences between evangelism and mormonism anyway?

There are way too many to talk about here, but some basic evangelical beliefs are: The Trinity (Father,Son,Holy Ghost are one in substance), the infallibility of the Bible and a closed canon of scriptures, salvation by grace alone, those that do not believe exactly what they do will go to hell, even if they were good people, they don't believe in vicarious ordinances, and based on their television shows, I get the feeling that they think all muslims are bad and that they can invoke the power of God at will.

Not terrible, but not perfect either. Those that go to hell will be determined by God, based on whether they repented and gave their hearts and lives over to Jesus. There is some diversity on various doctrines within evangelicalism, and certainly within protestantism. In fact, most evangelicals believe most other protestants AND CAtholics will be heaven. We do fear for those who do not personally commune with Jesus, and who rely on works and rituals for their salvation.

As for the Muslim phenomenon, there are plenty on this site who have expressed similar views. My sense is that the reaction to Islam is more political than theological.

Two other key differences are the belief that only God is eternal, that we had no premortal existence, and the belief that whatever wonderous glory we achieve in the Kingdom of God, we will never be what He is, and He was never what we are.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>Dr. Robert Millet has passed away, so they will have to find a replacement for him.

When?

Where did you read that?

Well, obviously I didn't.

I don't know who I'm thinking of, but Dr. Millet is alive and kicking.

Hope I didn't scare you!

Elphaba

I'm confused. Elph, didn't you originally say that he had passed away? That's what I'm reading. Then bc you posted that, Snow asked you where you read it.

Or am I missing something?

[Moksha]

We may never see the day in our lifetime when the majority of evangelicals and LDS are able to talk calmly and with AGAPE love towards one another.

However this happens on an individual basis every single day and that is encouraging. I see no reason that a particular conference could not put aside differences and concentrate on commonalities.

[Annabelli]

Evangelism is not an organized church. It's just a program that they are selling which is pronounced "money, money, money." They conduct their business on the pulpits of another man's church or a football stadium.

They should be listed under "opportunities" in the classifieds with all the other fakes, frauds and scammers.

PC's reply:

Wow. So much for standing together. I guess President Hinkley felt differently. When he was asked to allow evanglist Revi Zacharia to speak at the Tabernacle, his response was, "Sounds like a good idea." It happened in 2005.

"Sounds like a good idea" is not endorsing evangelism. You can find listings for Evangelism Presbyterian, Evangelism Methodist, Evangelism Pentecostal, but you will NOT find a listing where evangelism and LDS are entitled.

[prisonchaplain]

Evangelism is literally Good News telling. When you invite a friend to church, give them a Scripture, hand out a church-produced dvd, or simply offer to pray a blessing over someone, you are engaging in evangelism.

The most direct form of LDS evangelism would be when missionaries go tracting. We call that "cold turkey evanglism" (meaning you introduce someone to your faith without first developing a prior relationship).

My guess is that most LDS, including President Hinckley, would endorse evanglism in general. Furthermore, his "sounds like a good idea," resulted in a non-LDS evangelical evangelist preaching at the Tabernacle, with a plethora of LDS dignataries in approving attendence.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5...h&plindex=0

Why wouldn't you endorse Good News sharing?

[Guest Yediyd]

Evangelism is literally Good News telling. When you invite a friend to church, give them a Scripture, hand out a church-produced dvd, or simply offer to pray a blessing over someone, you are engaging in evangelism.

The most direct form of LDS evangelism would be when missionaries go tracting. We call that "cold turkey evanglism" (meaning you introduce someone to your faith without first developing a prior relationship).

My guess is that most LDS, including President Hinckley, would endorse evanglism in general. Furthermore, his "sounds like a good idea," resulted in a non-LDS evangelical evangelist preaching at the Tabernacle, with a plethora of LDS dignataries in approving attendence.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5...h&plindex=0

Why wouldn't you endorse Good News sharing?

Develop a relationship with them? are you SERIOUS? Have you never seen those "loving" evangelicals outside of Temple Square? Or as in my own personal experience...at the Hill Comora Pageant....

I have also taken some direct hits from former pastors and friends of the family...not to mention family members!!!!

...I understand what you are saying...but I have not expierienced the "love" of Crhist at the hands of evangelicals...ESPECIALLY now that I am LDS, and since I left a Baptsit church.

...You, however...have been a nice breath of fresh air and a healing presence for me!!! :)

[prisonchaplain]

Develop a relationship with them? are you SERIOUS? Have you never seen those "loving" evangelicals outside of Temple Square? Or as in my own personal experience...at the Hill Comora Pageant....

I've seen the footage at Temple Square (from fairlds.org). Not pretty. However, it's only one side of the picture. In fact, judging evangelicalism by those folk would by like judging LDS by the likes of Jeffs. Take a look at the link I provided to the event at the LDS Tabernacle. The first hour or so includes quite a bit of explanation as to how this effort came about, by Dr. Robert Millet (BYU).

Some who have grown up LDS, and been the target of the uglier side of the evangelical spectrum, probably are more comfortable keeping the dividing line clear and thick. And indeed, there are a fair number of evangelicals who feel the same way.

IMHO, though, Jesus likes us to make nice with each other...and everyone--as much as it is possibly, live peaceably, said the Apostle Paul.

Thanks for complimenting my breath mints, btw.

[Guest Yediydforyou]

<div class='quotemain'>

Develop a relationship with them? are you SERIOUS? Have you never seen those "loving" evangelicals outside of Temple Square? Or as in my own personal experience...at the Hill Comora Pageant....

I've seen the footage at Temple Square (from fairlds.org). Not pretty. However, it's only one side of the picture. In fact, judging evangelicalism by those folk would by like judging LDS by the likes of Jeffs. Take a look at the link I provided to the event at the LDS Tabernacle. The first hour or so includes quite a bit of explanation as to how this effort came about, by Dr. Robert Millet (BYU).

Some who have grown up LDS, and been the target of the uglier side of the evangelical spectrum, probably are more comfortable keeping the dividing line clear and thick. And indeed, there are a fair number of evangelicals who feel the same way.

IMHO, though, Jesus likes us to make nice with each other...and everyone--as much as it is possibly, live peaceably, said the Apostle Paul.

Thanks for complimenting my breath mints, btw.

You make a good point, PC...I have been on the receiving end of the worst examples of evangelicalism...but it is wrong to judge the whole group by my experience...I am also aware of what evangelicals believe about my beliefs as I have been exposed to this pretty much my whole life and I am not in a position to want to "Make nice" with people who have decided that I am worshipping the wrong Christ and on my way to Hell!!! I know my heart and I know my redeemer and I'm tired of people deciding that I am in a cult because I reject what they happen to believe...(present company excluded, however...)

...can I have a mint?

...I think I need one!!!

...This is Yediyd, BTW...I'm having trouble getting up here under my other identity.

[Elphaba]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>Dr. Robert Millet has passed away, so they will have to find a replacement for him.

When?

Where did you read that?

Well, obviously I didn't.

I don't know who I'm thinking of, but Dr. Millet is alive and kicking.

Hope I didn't scare you!

Elphaba

I'm confused. Elph, didn't you originally say that he had passed away? That's what I'm reading. Then bc you posted that, Snow asked you where you read it.

Or am I missing something?

Sorry for the confusion Shan. It's my fault.

I swear I had heard Dr. Millet had passed away. I even remember verifying it as I was saddened by it.

So when Snow asked me where I had heard that I thought it would be a simple matter to find an obituary for Dr. Millett. It was, in fact, the opposite, and I discovered Dr. Millet had not died. Feeling a bit mortified, I wrote "Well, obviously I didn't." I meant it as a slap in my face. Now, since you're confused, I'm worried it did not come across that way.

So, to clarify, I was wrong when I said Dr. Millett had passed away. I really thought I had read someone that he had, and really thought I had verified it. And I also have been wracking my brain trying to think of who it is that really did pass away.

Does that answer your question?

Humbly,

Elphaba

[Traveler]

If Mormons (LDS) and Evangelicals can get along and talk to each other any body can get along with each other - if this works we can all sit back and enjoy the 2nd coming. Somewhere the putting down of swords of differences and plowing the fields of peace has got to be a major sigh of something good.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

IMHO, the Lutherans and Catholics get just as animated--except they leave it to their clergy, do it behind closed doors, and use educated words and tones. One reason we get so passionate and obstinate is that we have these different beliefs, yet look and think very much alike.

You ever notice that Pentecostals and Lutherans (hi, maureen!) never argue about anything? We're both Christians, but our music, our teaching style, and usually our politics are all quite different. So, we look across the cultural chasm and just give each other a thumbs up!