Wasteful Spending

[omegaseamaster75]

What qualifies?

I happen to like nice things and I see that others do also. Someone I know recently shared a story on FB of Pres. Uchtdorf visiting a family, include was a picture of him kneeling between an older couple while they were seated in their chairs.  I happened to notice that he was wearing a very nice watch. How did I notice this? Well as you can tell by my screen name I also like nice watches.

As members do we judge people by what they spend their money on? 

I am saving to buy a rolex is that a bad thing?

Is there a ceiling on luxury items? Should there be?

 

[Guest MormonGator]

10 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

What qualifies?

I happen to like nice things and I see that others do also. Someone I know recently shared a story on FB of Pres. Uchtdorf visiting a family, include was a picture of him kneeling between an older couple while they were seated in their chairs.  I happened to notice that he was wearing a very nice watch. How did I notice this? Well as you can tell by my screen name I also like nice watches.

As members do we judge people by what they spend their money on? 

I am saving to buy a rolex is that a bad thing?

Is there a ceiling on luxury items? Should there be?

 

I agree with you 100%. I happen to like nice things too, and there is nothing wrong with that. Bragging about how wealthy you are or what kind of watch/car you have can be obnoxious, but it's not really sinful. 

I've also noticed that really rich people don't usually brag about it. They'll drive a nice car or live in a nice house-but they usually won't spend obscene amounts of money on their Tag Heuer collections.

Edited March 24, 2016 by MormonGator

[omegaseamaster75]

By the way I could tell he was wearing a Breitling Navitimer. Not sure what model. It's on my list. 

[Guest MormonGator]

8 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

By the way I could tell he was wearing a Breitling Navitimer. Not sure what model. It's on my list. 

Those ARE nice watches, but perhaps that is "his" thing and he cuts back in other areas. I love fine dining and I have seasons tickets to the Rays. But I drive a Ford Fiesta. Could I afford a "nicer" car? You bet. But I save money on not buying a Lexus so I can afford other things. 

[anatess2]

If one buys a Breitling watch over feeding his family... that's immoral.

If one buys a Breitling watch but wouldn't be caught spending a buck for a Relief Society compassionate service project or what-have-you... then you kinda start to question where the person's priorities are.

If one buys a Breitling after spending their entire retirement age serving the Church... dude... buy 10 more if it puts a smile on your face.

 

[NightSG]

34 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

As members do we judge people by what they spend their money on? 

It depends on the circumstances.  Someone who is receiving assistance shouldn't be buying the latest game console, but I wouldn't begrudge them small luxuries.  (I'm thinking the occasional soda, candy bar, etc. here, not custom rims for their car.)   Now if someone wants me to help out with their groceries while wearing a $3500+ watch and driving a brand new Lexus, I'd have a problem with that...especially while I've got a used bicycle and a $30 Timex.

Sometimes people point out that I have a nice collection of dress shirts and cufflinks, but for the most part, I paid less for my shirts (at Goodwill) than it would cost to buy t-shirts, and I have about a week's worth that fit properly.  (Hard to throw the others away because I don't want to have to buy more if I gain or lose a few pounds.)  My ties are almost all eBay or outlet store finds under $5, and my cufflinks are all from eBay at less than $3/set.  Frankly, I'd be surprised if what I paid for my entire wardrobe (representing about five years of shopping) not counting work boots (definitely not a luxury item) would pay for three months of the cable package that most people seem to consider necessary...or one payment on the new-or-very-low-mileage car they just can't live without.

[mdfxdb]

41 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

What qualifies?

I happen to like nice things and I see that others do also. Someone I know recently shared a story on FB of Pres. Uchtdorf visiting a family, include was a picture of him kneeling between an older couple while they were seated in their chairs.  I happened to notice that he was wearing a very nice watch. How did I notice this? Well as you can tell by my screen name I also like nice watches.

As members do we judge people by what they spend their money on? 

I am saving to buy a rolex is that a bad thing?

Is there a ceiling on luxury items? Should there be?

 

Yes, as a whole members judge others by what they spend their money on.

No, saving to buy a Rolex is not a bad thing.  I would personally love a GMT, or an Oyster perpetual.  

No, I do not think there should be a ceiling on luxury items.  You have to ask yourself before you buy something frivolous like a watch: Have I met ALL of my obligations, actual, perceived, and future.  If the answer is Yes, then by all means buy the watch.  

[Ironhold]

Also, remember that President Uchtdorf was a corporate vice president before he joined the Brethren. 

The watch in question could easily be an artifact from his days in that position, either purchased in order to maintain the required appearance of a corporate executive or gifted to him by someone so that he would maintain the appearance. 

And yes, there's actually a fair amount of pressure for people at the top of the ladder to look the part. Higher-end suits, higher-end watches, higher-end vehicles, et cetra. Much of it is subconscious, but sometimes it's also enforced after a fashion. I remember hearing about one incident, for example, in which a higher-up at a firm decided to buy a more fuel-efficient vehicle and drive that around instead of the fancy luxury car he was used to driving due to his position; his boss was so flabbergasted at the concept that the boss initially presumed that some random low-level employee had stolen the man's parking space. After a few words with the boss, the person went back to driving their luxury car to work. 

[Ironhold]

10 minutes ago, NightSG said:

It depends on the circumstances.  Someone who is receiving assistance shouldn't be buying the latest game console, but I wouldn't begrudge them small luxuries.  (I'm thinking the occasional soda, candy bar, etc. here, not custom rims for their car.)   Now if someone wants me to help out with their groceries while wearing a $3500+ watch and driving a brand new Lexus, I'd have a problem with that...especially while I've got a used bicycle and a $30 Timex.

Sometimes people point out that I have a nice collection of dress shirts and cufflinks, but for the most part, I paid less for my shirts (at Goodwill) than it would cost to buy t-shirts, and I have about a week's worth that fit properly.  (Hard to throw the others away because I don't want to have to buy more if I gain or lose a few pounds.)  My ties are almost all eBay or outlet store finds under $5, and my cufflinks are all from eBay at less than $3/set.  Frankly, I'd be surprised if what I paid for my entire wardrobe (representing about five years of shopping) not counting work boots (definitely not a luxury item) would pay for three months of the cable package that most people seem to consider necessary...or one payment on the new-or-very-low-mileage car they just can't live without.

I myself drive a third-hand Buick (inherited from a grandmother who bought it used) and am still wearing the same Timex I got back in high school. 

I allot myself $20 - $40 in "luxury" spending a month, but only after first ensuring that I've got enough in the bank to pay for my bills and my necessities. 

Yes, even though I live with family I still buy a fair amount of my own groceries and sundries so that I'm not taking advantage of them. 

[anatess2]

53 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

As members do we judge people by what they spend their money on? 

 

I don't judge people period.

Yes, I judge whether I should leave my kids with certain people, or judge if I should loan them money, or judge if I'll let them fix my car, or if I should vote for them for President... none of that has anything to do with what they spend their money on.

[mdfxdb]

As a homage to President Uchtdorf, I have decided to get this: http://www.rolex.com/watches/baselworld/new-air-king/m116900-0001.html

I know it's not a Breitling, but it is a pilot watch, and every time I check the time it will make me happy   :-)

[Backroads]

I suppose we could all be eating Ramen and living in cardboard boxes to avoid wasteful spending, but... why? This is such a tricky area it's near impossible to properly judge. All I can say is we set our own boundaries if another's spending choices bother us, as in the idea of paying the power bill of the guy driving the new luxury vehicle.

We're currently having this conversation on my teacher forum, with the specific example of the parents who can't pay $6 for the kid's field trip but send him with his personal $700 phone.

[Guest MormonGator]

12 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I suppose we could all be eating Ramen and living in cardboard boxes to avoid wasteful spending, but... why? This is such a tricky area it's near impossible to properly judge. All I can say is we set our own boundaries if another's spending choices bother us, as in the idea of paying the power bill of the guy driving the new luxury vehicle.

We're currently having this conversation on my teacher forum, with the specific example of the parents who can't pay $6 for the kid's field trip but send him with his personal $700 phone.

I agree. A lot of us have been there before. After college I couldn't even afford Ramen noodles! 

[Anddenex]

What qualifies? Attitude appears to be the determining factor. In the Book of Mormon we are instructed that members, non-members, in the Book of Mormon began to wear costly apparel.  Costly apparel was associated with the shunning of the poor and looking down on those with less than what another has.

This is what qualifies as "costly apparel." My brother tells me of a story of when he was walking to college campus he overheard two women speaking about how one of the girl's parents had just bought her a brand new Accord.  She was upset with her parents and could not believe they would not spend more money on her and get her a Mercedes or BMW -- ya problem.

I understand James E. Faust owned a $100K Sport Mercedes, could be wrong, this is what I was informed by my brother and I never check into it myself. I mean, what I will find ironic is people who say the Church has so much money but doesn't help the poor and then they have expensive taste and hate paying tithing and do not donate any fast offering.  They have all Apple products (because those are cheap) and have a hard time paying a generous fast offering.  I would say that qualifies. 

[Backroads]

10 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I agree. A lot of us have been there before. After college I couldn't even afford Ramen noodles! 

Maybe if you weren't frivolously buying the fancy flavors...

[Guest]

I tend to think this is one of those things like eating healthy food and the word of wisdom.  It's all a judgment call.  There are some hard and fast rules in the extreme ends but most of the time it is different for each person and each situation.  Motivation and attitude have a lot to do with it.

Temples are usually highly ornate places.  Why?  The Lord told us to make them that way.  It makes them more expensive.  Isn't that a waste of tithing money?  We could build two or three times as many temples if we were willing to skimp on architectural features.

It is my personal belief that some people are given the talents and tools to become wealthy so they can be the big tithing payers for the Lord's work.  But most of the time wealthy people make money by dealing with other wealthy people who see "image" as a big thing.  In order to do big business you've got to generate a "classy" or even "wealthy" image.   This includes clothing, accessories, cars, houses, etc.  

What about us poor (and not so poor) people?  There is certainly something to be said about morale in a home with nicer decoration.  That is really what Feng Shui is about (in my mind).  To merge with another thread, my wife really liked looking at her engagement ring when we were engaged.  Part of it was the reminder that we would be married soon.  But part of it was that it was really pretty.  She'd comment to many people on the special features of the ring that she "valued".  And my Empress is the most humble (in the best way possible) person in the world.

But in all cases, if we put more value on the stuff than God or serving our fellow man, then we need to take a look at where our priorities are and what "our god" really is.  In all things, let us be guided by the Spirit.

******************************************

I'll tell this story again. -- Cornelia Gracchus  ( née : Africana).

Quote

An anecdote, likely invented, demonstrates Cornelia's devotion to and admiration for her sons. When women friends questioned Cornelia about her mode of dress and personal adornment, which was far more simple and understated than was usual for a wealthy Roman woman of her rank and station, Cornelia indicated her two sons and said, "These are my jewels."

My wife was wondering if we were really sacrificing what we needed to in order to be good parents.  As she began to look for what more we could do, I asked,"What is in your jewelry box?"

She has two jewelry boxes.  One of them is a small wooden case that once held the fancy pen/pencil set that I received as a graduation gift from college.  It currently holds her very few necklaces and rings.  The other is a fancy looking glass and silver case with a mirrored bottom.  Inside it she has all our sons' scouting awards (mother's pins, etc.).

When I told her the story of Cornelia Gracchus and her sons, the Brothers Gracchi, she felt appeased.

[Ironhold]

19 hours ago, Anddenex said:

What qualifies? Attitude appears to be the determining factor. In the Book of Mormon we are instructed that members, non-members, in the Book of Mormon began to wear costly apparel.  Costly apparel was associated with the shunning of the poor and looking down on those with less than what another has.

This is what qualifies as "costly apparel." My brother tells me of a story of when he was walking to college campus he overheard two women speaking about how one of the girl's parents had just bought her a brand new Accord.  She was upset with her parents and could not believe they would not spend more money on her and get her a Mercedes or BMW -- ya problem.

I understand James E. Faust owned a $100K Sport Mercedes, could be wrong, this is what I was informed by my brother and I never check into it myself. I mean, what I will find ironic is people who say the Church has so much money but doesn't help the poor and then they have expensive taste and hate paying tithing and do not donate any fast offering.  They have all Apple products (because those are cheap) and have a hard time paying a generous fast offering.  I would say that qualifies. 

If memory serves, Faust was a lawyer, judge, and corporate board member at various points in his career. 

A guy like that *would* have the bling to get a Mercedes. 

[NightSG]

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Temples are usually highly ornate places.  Why?  The Lord told us to make them that way.  It makes them more expensive.  Isn't that a waste of tithing money?  We could build two or three times as many temples if we were willing to skimp on architectural features.

You know that would get carried too far and eventually there would be a set of singlewide temples touring the continents.

And, of course, the real failing point there would be having "temple gardens" consisting of a propane grill, TransCamaroBird with a tree growing through the engine compartment and six pitbulls.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, NightSG said:

You know that would get carried too far and eventually there would be a set of singlewide temples touring the continents.

And, of course, the real failing point there would be having "temple gardens" consisting of a propane grill, TransCamaroBird with a tree growing through the engine compartment and six pitbulls.

That was kind of my point.  It really could go too far.