Do we all hear/feel the Spirit the same?

[Sadliers]

1 hour ago, Eowyn said:

I would like to ask, what is your purpose in questioning someone else's testimony and experiences?

You have a great potential as do us all. That great potential is discovered in truly knowing God.

 

" 9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of Godknoweth no man, but the Spirit of God." (1 Corinthians 2:9-11)

 

If the Spirit is not known then what God has prepared is yet to be discovered. The Spirit is not known from periodic inspiration and revelation but rather through diligently seeking the Spirit to be continually with us. Your comments indicate a lack of truly knowing the Spirit. For example it was not known that all of the attributes in Galatians 5:22-23 must be present. If that is not known then there must be an incorrect perception of the Spirit. If there's an incorrect perception of the Spirit then it opens the door to false manifestations and false revelations. But the bigger issue is that the greatest things of God have not been realized nor is the potential being realized even though you're convinced it is. It's simple, though: seek the Spirit as provided then, when the presence is positively identified, ask God for understanding. If I'm blowing smoke in your face then it will be readily made clear, right? 

If a question is posed and you know answer A but not B then how do you know that A is the right answer? If I know answer A and also know answer B then why do you feel to dispute me when it is shown that the correct answer is B? Before disputing shouldn't you first know answer B??? Answer B is Galatians 5:22-23 as was presented. Answer A is "lots of ways". The question is "How does the Spirit feel". Why not learn B so that you can knowingly dispute it?

 

My attempt is to try to help others that are stuck in failing to understand the Spirit. "Every member a missionary" and that includes to members that are stuck. There will always be those, such as yourself, that will not entertain the thought that they might be spinning their wheels in the gospel so they disregard it when pointed out due to pride. So be it. But if it might help someone else that feels like they are spinning their wheels then it was worth being placed in a position to be ridiculed by you and the others. Who knows, maybe even some day when you are feeling the Spirit the words may come back to you and the Spirit uses them to give you direction. Or maybe even the very thought that there's something you haven't experienced will cause you to earnestly seek it. Right now I see it is fruitless with you but maybe some day...

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Sadliers said:

stuck in failing to understand the Spirit

The problem is that you have to assume a great deal about people to come to this determination, and you are out of your stewardship. You don't know me and you have no authority over me. You just come off as someone yelling undue condemnation from your own private Rameumptom. 

So yeah, if you're expecting someone for whom you have no knowledge, love, or stewardship to respond to that, it will probably be fruitless. 

[Sadliers]

22 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

The problem is that you have to assume a great deal about people to come to this determination, and you are out of your stewardship. You don't know me and you have no authority over me. You just come off as someone yelling undue condemnation from your own private Rameumptom. 

So yeah, if you're expecting someone for whom you have no knowledge, love, or stewardship to respond to that, it will probably be fruitless. 

When a person reads something they will apply their own mannerism to what is being read. Take the story of Jesus cleansing the temple, for example. Most read the account and then apply their own selves in the situation. They read of how He tipped over the tables, threw the money across the floor, and drove the violators out with a whip. They ponder on how they would feel in order for that to happen. The only thing they can come up with is that Jesus must have been feeling anger as they would feel anger if they were to do the same thing. They then go as far as to claim that Jesus was angry. However that simply was not so! Nowhere in scriptures does it suggest that Jesus was angry when He cleansed the temple. What Jesus felt was something that most cannot feel because most do not live a life with Christlike love, let alone understand it, thus cannot accurately comprehend what He was feeling. That is called "projection".

 

Notice how projection played a role in what you have read from me. I did not yell even once. I did not feel anger in what I said. I did not overstep the bounds in stewardship in what I have said. There was no condemnation but rather a pointing out that there is something greater. But because of projection that conclusion was reached. That means that that is how you would have been feeling if you made the same comments. Yelling and anger opposes the Spirit. So what does that again indicate? There's a greater life with the Spirit....

Edited April 2, 2016 by Sadliers

[zil]

For something as crucial as how to recognize the Spirit, if literally everything Paul wrote were mandatory (and that were all that were mandatory), prophets and apostles would have been repeating and emphasizing it from the restoration on.  But they're not.  Further, I know that the Spirit can make himself known, beyond doubt, if you're willing to receive that knowledge.

[Iggy]

I mostly experience a Clarity of Thought.Though I have heard my name said OUT LOUD along with MOVE, or TURN HERE, or STOP-LOOK, etc. And in listening to the Prophets, Seers & Revelators I get: 1) Goosebumps; 2) Tingles down my spine; 3) Tears to the point of nearly sobbing.

When our recent Branch President was called, and as he stepped up to the podium to give his testimony I saw an aura encase his shoulders and he had a glowing aura about him. In talking with other members at a recent pot luck at church, they also saw the same thing.

So Eowyn, from my experiences and in listening to the testimonies of others the Holy Ghost speaks to all of us according to our own capability of *hearing*, *feeling*, *seeing* Him. PLUS our capability of Understanding what we *hear*, *feel*, and *see*.

When I reactivated back into full - active membership every time I saw (TV, Computer AND Ensign) or heard Pres. Hinckley I would cry. I honestly thought I was hit with early menopause, until my sister hugged me and told me that no- it is not menopause, it is the Holy Ghost testifying to me the truth of what Pres. Hinckley was saying.

Yep, she was right - menopause hit me with a vengeance 5 years later.

[Anddenex]

Eowyn, for clarification, was your question particularly aimed toward the Spirit, or the way Heavenly Father communicates to his children?  Heavenly Father communicates through many different avenues, while the Spirit being one aspect of his communication, dreams and visions, and other forms. Would you clarify for me?

[Sadliers]

7 hours ago, zil said:

For something as crucial as how to recognize the Spirit, if literally everything Paul wrote were mandatory (and that were all that were mandatory), prophets and apostles would have been repeating and emphasizing it from the restoration on.  But they're not.  Further, I know that the Spirit can make himself known, beyond doubt, if you're willing to receive that knowledge.

They have and in different ways. It is found in Preach My Gospel. It is contained in the series Teaching by the Spirit and also Teaching: No Greater Calling. Recognizing the Spirit and receiving a witness of the gospel from the Spirit are essentials before baptism. In other words, all members have been interviewed and were supposed to have been verified as knowing how to distinguish the Spirit. Since all members are already supposed to be familiar with the Spirit why would it be assumed that leaders would conclude that it needs retaught every conference? If it needs retaught every conference then why are people being permitted to be baptized that don't know the Spirit? Baptism is supposed to be a sacred ordinance not a mere formality for joining a club. This gospel needs to be taken seriously and with full purpose of heart, not half-heartedly.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Sadliers

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Sadliers said:

They have and in different ways. It is found in Preach My Gospel. It is contained in the series Teaching by the Spirit and also Teaching: No Greater Calling. Recognizing the Spirit and receiving a witness of the gospel from the Spirit are essentials before baptism. In other words, all members have been interviewed and were supposed to have been verified as knowing how to distinguish the Spirit. Since all members are already supposed to be familiar with the Spirit why would it be assumed that leaders would conclude that it needs retaught every conference? If it needs retaught every conference then why are people being permitted to be baptized that don't know the Spirit? Baptism is supposed to be a sacred ordinance not a mere formality for joining a club. This gospel needs to be taken seriously and with full purpose of heart, not half-heartedly.

While I agree with the text here, I get a connotation that may or may not have been intended.  While we all must have a credible claim to having felt a witness of the Spirit, we must also understand that there are varying levels of witness and promptings.  As an 8 yo child, I had a pretty good confidence that what I was doing was right.  I also had a reasonable testimony.  But to try to compare that to what I feel now as an adult would be comical.  And to try to compare what I feel vs. what testimony the Prophet has would likewise be comical.

[Sadliers]

31 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

But to try to compare that to what I feel now as an adult would be comical.  And to try to compare what I feel vs. what testimony the Prophet has would likewise be comical.

I think we could agree that as a child the "testimony" is not their own but rather an expression of other's testimony. The Spirit was likely there but not recognized because of the lack of temptations. From that point on the temptations began coming. In the teen years most of us really mess up as far as the Spirit is concerned and lose the Spirit due to choosing to comply with the temptation(s). That was our fault, not the church's and not the Lord's. It was us that abandoned God through choosing wickedness after we have been taught what was right and that directly resulted in a loss of the Spirit. It isn't quite as comical when we realize just how far we've fallen in becoming of our own.

Ok, so now that we've really messed up and booted the Spirit from our daily living, perhaps even our life, what are we going to do about it? Are we going to fight God on what the Spirit is through stiffneckedness? Are we going to demand that God complies with what we believe to be truth? Or are we finally going to humble ourselves and turn back to God as a child?

"For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child,submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father." (Mosiah 3:19)

If what you feel vs the testimony of the prophet is comical then the gospel is not being practiced and it needs to be taken seriously. Repentance is not understood nor is faith. Every person that comes to God in faith and repentance will have the same witness and faith as the prophet. Faith is not a mere belief in God but extends to a motivating force that causes us to do whatever it takes to be one with God. We seek out His will just so that we can comply with it in hopes of becoming one with Him. We will abhor sin and the pleasures of Babylon because those things draw us away from being totally unified with Him. That is faith and is the first principle of the gospel. That is what we were supposed to have before being admitted into the waters of baptism.

The other prerequisite to baptism was repentance. Repentance is not merely feeling sorry for having broken a commandment. Repentance is feeling miserable because the Holy Spirit is not present with us and being felt. Thus we realize what we did that caused the Spirit to be offended, apologize to God for it, and diligently strive to change whatever it was that caused the loss of the Spirit. If that is adhered to then obedience to the commandment will come naturally and the obedience will not be out of fear of future punishment but rather out of knowing that we will not be one with God and that the Spirit will withdraw.

Change the perspective of those two principles and adhere to them then you'll discover that the faith and testimony is right there with the prophet's.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Sadliers

[Guest]

No, 

22 minutes ago, Sadliers said:

1) I think we could agree that as a child the "testimony" is not their own but rather an expression of other's testimony.

2) If what you feel vs the testimony of the prophet is comical then the gospel is not being practiced and it needs to be taken seriously.

1) No, what I felt as a child was indeed my own testimony.  Even in retrospect, I can say that.

2) It sounds like you're saying "Unless you have the sure word of prophecy, then you really don't have a testimony at all." I'd dispute that.  

Are you a Snufferite?

 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Guest

[Sadliers]

8 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

No, 

No, what I felt as a child was indeed my own testimony.  Even in retrospect, I can say that.

It sounds like you're saying "Unless you have the sure word of prophecy, then you really don't have a testimony at all." I'd dispute that.  Are you a Snufferite?

 

It didn't come across correctly, then, because I am not saying anything about the Sure Word of Prophecy. That comes long after the Baptism of Fire. The Baptism of Fire comes after the faith and repentance which was roughly outlined. I don't know much about the Sure Word of Prophecy thus cannot comment on it, and if I do it is as useless opinion other than that it comes at the end of the straight and narrow path.

What makes you think I would be a Snufferite???

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Sadliers said:

What makes you think I would be a Snufferite???

You're not answering the question.  So, are you?

Here is Elder Bednar's speech again:

 

If I've said that throughout my life I've seen bits of light and bits more light over time until I've gotten a lot more light than when I was a child, it seems that this would be in line with what Elder Bednar said.  Yet I still have not reached a point in my life that I can say I'm completely bathed in the glory of the noonday sun all the time -- which is how I imagine the Prophet to feel.

But that is so beneath what you've stated here:

2 hours ago, Sadliers said:

...

Ok, so now that we've really messed up and booted the Spirit from our daily living, perhaps even our life, what are we going to do about it? Are we going to fight God on what the Spirit is through stiffneckedness? Are we going to demand that God complies with what we believe to be truth? Or are we finally going to humble ourselves and turn back to God as a child?

... Repentance is not understood nor is faith. Every person that comes to God in faith and repentance will have the same witness and faith as the prophet...

that the gradual increase in faith throughout our lives is cause for you to call me to repentance.  That is Snufferite doctrine.

So, are you a Snufferite?

Just as I built my relationship with God from the relationship I had as a child to where I am now, I continue to build it throughout my life.  I continue to repent and improve my confidence in the presence of God.  Yet, you're calling me to repentance because I'm not making progress fast enough for you?

Joseph Smith type revelations/visions, while they certainly happen, are rare.  Just as anything in life, we build things line upon line and precept upon precept.

Excellence comes not from the spectacular or the technical.  It comes from the persistent seeking of the mundane edge.  IOW: The tortoise and the hare.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Guest
Gammar

[Sadliers]

29 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

You're not answering the question.  So, are you?

[...]

If I've said that throughout my life I've seen bits of light and bits more light over time until I've gotten a lot more light than when I was a child, it seems that this would be in line with what Elder Bednar said.  Yet I still have not reached a point in my life that I can say I'm completely bathed in the glory of the noonday sun all the time -- which is how I imagine the Prophet to feel.

But that is so beneath what you've stated here:

that the gradual increase in faith throughout our lives is cause for you to call me to repentance.  That is Snufferite doctrine.

So, are you a Snufferite?

Just as I built my relationship with God from the relationship I had as a child to where I am now, I continue to build it throughout my life.  I continue to repent and improve my confidence in the presence of God.  Joseph Smith type revelations/visions, while they certainly happen, are rare.  Just as anything in life, we build things line upon line and precept upon precept.

Excellence comes not from the spectacular of the technical.  It comes from the persistent seeking of the mundane edge.  IOW: The tortoise and the hare.

I love Elder Bednar!!! Thanks for the video! And I totally agree with what he has said.

Why are you concluding that  "revelation" and "inspiration" is synonymous with "feeling the Spirit"? Are you aware that one can, and will, feel the Spirit when not receiving revelation or inspiration?

Just lay down the pride and relax - I was not calling you to repentance. I was pointing out where the apparent bottleneck was occurring that was preventing a greater understanding and further progression. Sometimes people don't want to know and that is up to you but it's there if you want it.

No, I'm not a Snufferite. Snufferite's do not know the Spirit. They, too, do not know how to recognize the Spirit and have taken to following a false Spirit and THAT is one of the reasons a person should know how to recognize the Spirit and how to discern between the different sources. Snuffer tells people to follow him and his teachings - at what point did I not point others to learning how to follow God on their own? This is about helping others avoid falling into the Snuffer trap and look at how it's being fought tooth and nail - how many actually went and studied Galatians 5:22-23, instead of trying to prove me wrong? If what I am sharing was received from the Spirit and if I am sharing what the Spirit gave to me then that same Spirit will share the same thing with any that asks, but how many actually ask instead of taking to fighting against it just because it does not fit their own ideas? Look at how Satan has made so many members petrified in seeking God because of how he snookered Snuffer!  

Edited April 3, 2016 by Sadliers

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Sadliers said:

1) Why are you concluding that  "revelation" and "inspiration" is synonymous with "feeling the Spirit"? Are you aware that one can, and will, feel the Spirit when not receiving revelation or inspiration?

2) Just lay down the pride and relax - I was not calling you to repentance. I was pointing out where the apparent bottleneck was occurring that was preventing a greater understanding and further progression. Sometimes people don't want to know and that is up to you but it's there if you want it.

3) No, I'm not a Snufferite. Snufferite's do not know the Spirit. They, too, are do not know how to recognize the Spirit and have taken to following a false Spirit and THAT is one of the reasons a person should know how to recognize the Spirit and how to discern between the different sources. Snuffer tells people to follow him and his teachings - at what point did I not point others to learning how to follow God on their own? This is about helping others avoid falling into the Snuffer trap and look at how it's being fought tooth and nail - how many actually went and studied Galatians 5:22-23, instead of trying to prove me wrong? If what I am sharing was received from the Spirit and if I am sharing what the Spirit gave to me then that same Spirit will share the same thing with any that asks, but how many actually ask instead of taking to fighting against it just because it does not fit their own ideas? Look at how Satan has made so many members petrified in seeking God because of how he snookered Snuffer!  

1) Not synonymous, but a subset.  The Spirit's primary mission and function is to teach and to testify of truth.  Well, that sounds like revelation to me.  I hope this is not just a semantic argument you're making.  That would be annoying.

2) "lay down the pride"???  You were giving me instruction on how I need to repent so that I can feel the Spirit more in my life, and you're telling me to "lay down the pride"?  Tell me, if you were not calling me to repentance, why did you feel it necessary to tell a complete stranger how to properly repent?

3) I'll take you at your word.  But you could have fooled me.  Why do you believe that if I don't have a level of testimony equal to what the Prophet has, that I'm in need of instruction?  And what was this  (see below) about?

17 hours ago, Sadliers said:

Recognizing the Spirit and receiving a witness of the gospel from the Spirit are essentials before baptism. In other words, all members have been interviewed and were supposed to have been verified as knowing how to distinguish the Spirit. Since all members are already supposed to be familiar with the Spirit why would it be assumed that leaders would conclude that it needs retaught every conference? If it needs retaught every conference then why are people being permitted to be baptized that don't know the Spirit? Baptism is supposed to be a sacred ordinance not a mere formality for joining a club. This gospel needs to be taken seriously and with full purpose of heart, not half-heartedly.

Again, this was the start of my line of questioning that you appear to still be sticking to.  While I agree that it is our ultimate goal to have a testimony as firm as an Apostle's, it takes time.  Do you or do you not believe that people can feel a portion of the Spirit and still need guidance/teaching/instruction on how to grow that ability?  If you do, why the bolded question above?

[Sadliers]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

1) Not synonymous, but a subset.  The Spirit's primary mission and function is to teach and to testify of truth.  Well, that sounds like revelation to me.  I hope this is not just a semantic argument you're making.  That would be annoying.

2) "lay down the pride"???  You were giving me instruction on how I need to repent so that I can feel the Spirit more in my life, and you're telling me to "lay down the pride"?  Tell me, if you were not calling me to repentance, why did you feel it necessary to tell a complete stranger how to properly repent?

3) I'll take you at your word.  But you could have fooled me.  Why do you believe that if I don't have a level of testimony equal to what the Prophet has, that I'm in need of instruction?  And what was this  (see below) about?

Again, this was the start of my line of questioning that you appear to still be sticking to.  While I agree that it is our ultimate goal to have a testimony as firm as an Apostle's, it takes time.  Do you or do you not believe that people can feel a portion of the Spirit and still need guidance/teaching/instruction on how to grow that ability?  If you do, why the bolded question above?

Once a person understands how the Spirit feels then why would you assume that it needs to be taught again and again? After your mother taught you to walk around the age of 1 did she need to reteach you how to walk every 6 months after that? You'll need to clarify what the thinking is on why it should be retaught every conference unless I misunderstood the question. 

1. Okay, let me see if I have got the thinking straight. Are you thinking that the Spirit is only felt when revelation or inspiration is being received?

2. Then ignore the advice. It is meaningless to you. Problem solved.

3. It was an incorrect assumption on my part. I assumed that all members of the church sincerely try to have a personal relationship with God and are trying to work out their salvation and that is why they belong to the church. That was my mistake so you can ignore that part, too.

 

[thoughts]

IME, each person doesn't even hear the Spirit in the same way every time.  The spirit presumably speaks as he needs to for us to listen and hear, and since we are all different, he has to do it differently.

[The Folk Prophet]

Haven't read through the thread yet (I'll get to it) but I think it's obvious that we all don't "feel" the spirit the same. But the feeling that is associated with receiving communication from the Spirit is not the Spirit. The Spirit, however, does communicate in different means...but even within those different means, I believe there is a core level communication -- that which we may call pure revelation, or light -- that I think is the same. It is un-explainable beyond the simple idea that we know because it is given to us. It's given to us deeper than our physical selves. It is pure communication of truth to our souls. And that, I think, is likely the same for all. How we react to it, think about it, feel, get chills or not, warm fuzzies, burning in the bosom, what-have-you, is going to be different though.

[theSQUIDSTER]

I'd like to second what TFP said.  The Spirit communicates with us on some core level.. perhaps directly to OUR spirit.  How we react can be very different depending upon a whole host of things.  It makes sense to me that the Spirit doesn't change.. However, for good or for ill, WE DO change over time.  Hopefully we're heeding the promptings, which, if we do, will soften our hearts more and more, increase our love and understanding, and bring us ever closer to the Father and the Son.  When we're able to see Them as They truly are it will be because we have become like them.  Didn't our first prophet of this dispensation say as much?

I won't presume to speak for the rest of you, but I feel no doubt about the Lord influencing my life for the better, in spite of the fact that I don't always choose the better or best.  I have had times in my life when I'm absolutely certain the Spirit was prompting me or present.  Much more often, however, my own weaknesses and frailties interfere with the things the Spirit is trying to teach me.  But, because I'm certain the Lord has never forgotten me, I must continue to practice remembering Him and reaching for Him despite any winds and waves which surround me.

When I was a younger man I spent more of my time worried about whether I was hearing and understanding the Spirit correctly... The question of discernment was almost ever-present in my mind.  I was hesitant because I was afraid of making a mistake or taking a step in the wrong direction. But as I've gotten older I find myself focusing much less on the question of "is this really the Lord speaking to me?" and more, what would the Lord have me do.. and am I getting off course... and how can I do better.  For me, revelation works better if I'm making an effort to move in the direction I believe the Lord is prompting me to go rather than waiting for 100% certainty before doing anything.. This type of revelation which happens while I'm on the move is most especially applicable to my stewardships and how the Lord desires for me to serve others.  The voice of the Lord tends to become clearer as I engage in activities which focus outward in a sincere effort to love and serve others.. and tends to become harder to hear and understand the more I focus inward with greater preoccupation upon myself.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, theSQUIDSTER said:

 The voice of the Lord tends to become clearer as I engage in activities which focus outward in a sincere effort to love and serve others.. and tends to become harder to hear and understand the more I focus inward with greater preoccupation upon myself.

Insightful and very useful advice. 

[Traveler]

I would suggest a study of Moroni Chapter 10.  I believe most of the answer is revealed there.  In short - the gifts of the spirit (or influence of the spirit) are, by design, quite different from person to person.

 

The Traveler

[Vort]

On 4/2/2016 at 11:14 AM, Sadliers said:

They then go as far as to claim that Jesus was angry. However that simply was not so! Nowhere in scriptures does it suggest that Jesus was angry when He cleansed the temple. What Jesus felt was something that most cannot feel because most do not live a life with Christlike love, let alone understand it, thus cannot accurately comprehend what He was feeling.

It sounds like you are saying that Jesus was not angry because he was filled with love. Do you think anger and love to be somehow opposite? Do you believe anger to be an inherently negative, evil thing? [Insert lengthy list of scriptures talking about divine anger] Do you believe the scriptures are merely metaphorical, or perhaps mistaken, in talking about God's anger being kindled against the wicked?

[Vort]

In order for us to talk meaningfully with each other about something, we must share a commonality of experience. If our experiences with the Spirit are utterly different, we won't really have much discussion on the matter. Furthermore, if it's the same Spirit speaking to each of us, we might therefore assume that we will have a similar experience.

On the other hand, each of us as individuals has his or her own perceptions. Is my red the same as your red? Is my sour the same as your sour? (Well...yes. We have the same basic human equipment, we have roughly the same reactions, so it is reasonable to suppose the experiences are similar if not precisely identical.) Paul, as well as Moroni and Joseph Smith, make it clear in listing gifts of the Spirit that they are manifested in manifold variety. Even in the same individual, the Spirit may manifest in vastly different ways -- a warm, secure assurance of love and propriety, or a piercing clarity of thought that dispells confusion, or an audible voice giving urgent instruction.

I come down on the side of those preferring to emphasize the commonality and unity of experiences with the Spirit. But this does not mean the experience is identical between people.

[Sadliers]

10 hours ago, Vort said:

It sounds like you are saying that Jesus was not angry because he was filled with love. Do you think anger and love to be somehow opposite? Do you believe anger to be an inherently negative, evil thing? [Insert lengthy list of scriptures talking about divine anger] Do you believe the scriptures are merely metaphorical, or perhaps mistaken, in talking about God's anger being kindled against the wicked?

One cannot understand how Jesus felt until they've walked in His shoes and lived with the same pure love, and are not offending the Spirit in the least degree. Once they understand that manner of living then they will understand what He felt. 

 

The anger we experience is not the "anger" God experiences. There is no word in the English language that accurately portrays what God experiences so words that we understand have to be used instead. The devil is the god of anger - are you thinking that Jesus aligned Himself with the devil by experiencing anger as we know anger?

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Sadliers said:

One cannot understand how Jesus felt until they've walked in His shoes and lived with the same pure love, and are not offending the Spirit in the least degree. Once they understand that manner of living then they will understand what He felt.

So you are saying that until we are perfect, Godly experiences are utterly beyond our reach. Do I understand you correctly?

1 hour ago, Sadliers said:

The anger we experience is not the "anger" God experiences.

I disbelieve this. Do you have any evidence beyond your bare assertion?

1 hour ago, Sadliers said:

There is no word in the English language that accurately portrays what God experiences so words that we understand have to be used instead.

You are going well beyond that, though. You are stating that God's portrayal of his emotion as "anger" is actively misleading and untrue. I disagree.

1 hour ago, Sadliers said:

The devil is the god of anger

Whence do you derive this doctrine? Contention is of the devil, but anger? Again, I disbelieve it. Can you establish it by anything beyond your assertion?

1 hour ago, Sadliers said:

are you thinking that Jesus aligned Himself with the devil by experiencing anger as we know anger?

Yep, that's it. You got me. I believe that Jesus aligned himself with Satan.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Vort said:

Yep, that's it. You got me. I believe that Jesus aligned himself with Satan.

That's it!  I'm reporting you to the First Presidency.  I always knew you were an apostate.  You're gonna be in trouble...