Pushing Back Against the Transgender Bathroom Directive

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, zil said:

Zil darling, I told you to be nice to Estradling. Don't make me demote you to double digits again. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

 

 Canadians are people? 

(Kidding everyone, I love Canada) 

Where do you think us Americans get our maple syrup and bacon?

[Guest]

(Sheesh Eowyn, it might be a little amusing the first time, but let's not try and milk it...)

[estradling75]

1 hour ago, yjacket said:

Since this is a world-wide forum, I don't find Leseller's use offending at all . . . I think it's a bigger comment on how easy it is to offend people.  We all need to grow thicker skins.

Maybe maybe not...  but when someone asks you to stop doing something... and you choose to continue such actions... then when they stop listening or otherwise start getting hostile to your views.... it is a natural consequences of your actions....  If you find such consequences to be worth whatever you gain from such actions then so be it...  But if not then a rethinking of your actions is in order.   

By his actions he has declared that his reasons for using USmerica are more important then having meaningful discussions with many on this forum...  So be it then...  But when this comes back on him he has only himself to blame.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by estradling75

[Guest]

@MormonGator @estradling75

I missed a bunch of this conversation.  Was someone offended at Lehi's use of the term USmericans?

[Guest MormonGator]

18 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

(Sheesh Eowyn, it might be a little amusing the first time, but let's not try and milk it...)

 You really do rock Eowyn. That's awesome. 

 

6 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

@MormonGator @estradling75

I missed a bunch of this conversation.  Was someone offended at Lehi's use of the term USmericans?

Yes.  A few pages ago or so I asked him why he used the term. He answered, and several of us expressed our dislike or distaste for it. He seemed to acknowledge our dislike, listen carefully and ignore us completely. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by MormonGator

[yjacket]

33 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

``````

 I think what several of us are "offended" by is that he keeps using a term that we find silly/offensive/rude and he still chooses to use it. That doesn't show that we are "thin skinned"  it shows that he doesn't care about our thoughts or views. So like someone else said, why should we care about his? 

Yes, the above is the epitome of thin-skinned.  

Obviously you care about it b/c there are 2 pages of it.  If several people here weren't thin-skinned it wouldn't even be an issue.

Thin-skinned isn't about what other people do, it is about how we react to what other people do. This is just typical of modern society (not my fault, it's their fault, they are the ones to blame).  No wonder the level of discord on this forum has grown by leaps and bounds.

No one can offend us, we choose to be offended.

[yjacket]

4 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

 You really do rock Eowyn. That's awesome. 

 

Yes.  A few pages ago or so I asked him why he used the term. He answered, and several of us expressed our dislike or distaste for it. He seemed to acknowledge our dislike, listen carefully and ignore us completely. 

Yeap, typical modern society.  You are the ones who are choosing to make a big deal out of a silly word for pete's sake.  My gosh, my children are better than this.  

"Daddy, he said a word I don't like", My response: "I don't care, learn to deal with it". If Lesellers was making fun of someone that is one thing, but he isn't . . .man this is really stupid.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, yjacket said:

Yes, the above is the epitome of thin-skinned.  

Obviously you care about it b/c there are 2 pages of it.  If several people here weren't thin-skinned it wouldn't even be an issue.

Thin-skinned isn't about what other people do, it is about how we react to what other people do. This is just typical of modern society (not my fault, it's their fault, they are the ones to blame).  No wonder the level of discord on this forum has grown by leaps and bounds.

No one can offend us, we choose to be offended.

You are right, I do care. I expect people to be polite and take others feelings and thoughts into consideration. If I keep cursing and someones says to stop, I'll stop.  If that makes me thin skinned, guilty as charged. 

However, like several of us said before-I didn't tell LeSellers to stop-he's welcome to do whatever he wishes. 

[yjacket]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

You are right, I do care. I expect people to be polite and take others feelings and thoughts into consideration. If I keep cursing and someones says to stop, I'll stop.  If that makes me thin skinned, guilty as charged. 

However, like several of us said before-I didn't tell LeSellers to stop-he's welcome to do whatever he wishes. 

Lol, now USAmerica is cursing .  . . the hypocrisy.  Oh my goodness . . .LDS web forum . . . yeah right.  

Choosing to be offended is not what we have been taught.

Edited May 19, 2016 by yjacket

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, yjacket said:

Lol, now USAmerica is cursing .  . . the hypocrisy.  Oh my goodness . . .LDS web forum . . . yeah right.  

I didn't say it was. I was using it as an example of how someone can change behavior because they don't want to be unpleasant. 

[yjacket]

1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

I didn't say it was. I was using it as an example of how someone can change behavior because they don't want to be unpleasant. 

Good, we agree on something.  

Some battles are worth fighting some aren't.  Cursing is a battle worth fighting, arguing about USAmerica is not a battle worth fighting.

[mordorbund]

1 hour ago, estradling75 said:

That indeed would...  However using the letters USA clearly defines the subject...  without the issue of alienation....  it even uses less letters so it is more efficient

I could see this becoming a standard practice in USA, but how would USAns feel about it?

Nope, doesn't quite work for mortals who read with a voice in their head. Maybe if we refer to ourselves as Statians, but then the country is just States. So that brings us to United Statians of the the United States. That works well enough I suppose. I wonder if United Statians would get offended at being referred to as such?

Or, you know, maybe abbreviate the US part and keep the America - USMerica. It also has the added advantage of a being a shorthand that includes the United (US) aspect.

On 11/28/2015 at 6:28 PM, LeSellers said:

My own neologism: USmericans as opposed to THEMericans. (This part is a jokish snidity.)

I worked with a Mexican who insisted that he was an American. I married a Canadian, and she, too, is an American. Then, when I met a Chilean who called himself an American, I just decided that the distinction needed to exist.

"USA" cannot be declined. (The "newspaper", USA Today tries it, but it just does not work.) "America" is too broad. "USmerica" fits, and we can decline it (USmerican) when its function in a sentence requires it.

Lehi

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

 Yes.  A few pages ago or so I asked him why he used the term. He answered, and several of us expressed our dislike or distaste for it. He seemed to acknowledge our dislike, listen carefully and ignore us completely. 

The problem is that it all depends on whom you're changing for and why?  I'll tell you that Lehi is one of the most patriotic individuals I know.  So, it is in no way meant to poke fun at US err... us.

He just decided that he's going to hurt someone and he's going to please others no matter what he does.  So, he'll make a choice based on what works for him.  Remember that his generation and mine were brought up being told in school "We're not Americans.  We're US citizens.  America is the name of two continents...(blah blah blah)."  So, to him, "Americans" is simply linguistically incorrect.  So, you find it silly that he wishes to wordsmith rather than use incorrect language.  So do I.  That's part of his charm.  

But I don't see why anyone would find it offensive or distasteful.  You should hear how often he uses the suffix "-ify" as in "listify" instead of "make a list".  I find it humorous and silly.  But I don't see why it would bother anyone.  I've heard it so much that Mrs. Carb notices I do the same thing sometimes and tries to stop me.  I tell her, "It's not my fault that your dad's wordsmithing is contagious."

[Guest]

What does the rest of the world call us, if not Americans? "Citizens of the United States of America" is a bit of a mouthful. We use "America" and "Americans" not because we're claiming continents, but because it's the easiest shortening of our country's name. 

 

If I were saying something that irritated a handful of people, especially people with whom I hoped to continue discussing different things with, I hope I'd have the courtesy to change my wording. If I said something that was offending more than one of those people, I would certainly stop. It's a simple thing.

Different strokes, I guess, but as estradling said, all behavior carries consequences, for better or for worse. Refusing to be considerate, and indeed digging one's heels in and arguing instead, carries the consequence of losing the respect and/or good opinion of people. 

[Guest MormonGator]

11 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

He just decided that he's going to hurt someone and he's going to please others no matter what he does.  

I used to be like that. I thought I was just "keeping it real", "being myself" and "everyone else is too sensitive". I'm just blunt and going to keep it non-pc. And that's fine if it's your thing.

But the older I got I realized that others peoples thoughts and feelings really do matter. If I want to be taken seriously/listened to (And we all do, if you didn't, you wouldn't be here. And if you really didn't care, you wouldn't say it)I had to be a good listener. I had to be respectful. I had to take others thoughts and feelings into consideration. It's enhanced my life, deepened my friendships, made me less selfish (I'm still egotistical of course) and helped me become a better person. 

Don't get me wrong-if you want to keep on ignoring others-go for it. It's your choice totally. But in the end, you really will only hurt yourself. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by MormonGator

[LeSellers]

10 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

What does the rest of the world call us, if not Americans?

In Mexico, it's Norde Americanos or Gringos.

Yanquis in France, if not worse. Capitalist Running Dogs in China and North Korea.

Lehi

Edited May 19, 2016 by LeSellers

[LeSellers]

19 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

You should hear how often he uses the suffix "-ify" as in "listify" instead of "make a list".

And don't forget "listificate" and "listerize".

And the ultimate superlative: "mosterest gooderest".

Lehi

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

In Mexico, it's Norde Americanos or Gringos.

Yanquis in France, if not worse. Capitalist Running Dogs in China and North Korea.

Lehi

I meant formally, but I think you probably knew that.

[LeSellers]

1 minute ago, Eowyn said:

I meant formally, but I think you probably knew that.

You didn't say formally, and your example, "Americans", is not "formal". Where should we draw the line.

I'm sorry if my stance on government-run, tax-funded welfare schools riles so many people so much that a trivial neologism grates. There is nothing offensive intended by USmerica/n(s), and for the life of me, I cannot see why anyone would be concerned. Find it "silly" or even "stupid" if it is in your eyes, but to find it offensive is to demonstrate intolerance to the nth degree.

Lehi

[Guest]

So what is the formal term for citizens of the USA used around the world? A quick google search suggests that "Americans" is the name most widely used. Find it "silly" or even "stupid" if it is in your eyes, but to find it offensive is to demonstrate intolerance to the nth degree. We are, in fact, the only ones that have "America" in our country's name, and that we are called "Americans" means no more or less than that.

[Guest MormonGator]

5 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

You didn't say formally, and your example, "Americans", is not "formal". Where should we draw the line.

I'm sorry if my stance on government-run, tax-funded welfare schools riles so many people so much that a trivial neologism grates. There is nothing offensive intended by USmerica/n(s), and for the life of me, I cannot see why anyone would be concerned. Find it "silly" or even "stupid" if it is in your eyes, but to find it offensive is to demonstrate intolerance to the nth degree.

Lehi

Maybe it's you that's being intolerant of our view. Again, I don't think it's the term that bothers us-though it does-it's the fact that you still use it even though you know it bothers us. 

[estradling75]

5 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

So what is the formal term for citizens of the USA used around the world? A quick google search suggests that "Americans" is the name most widely used. Find it "silly" or even "stupid" if it is in your eyes, but to find it offensive is to demonstrate intolerance to the nth degree. We are, in fact, the only ones that have "America" in our country's name, and that we are called "Americans" means no more or less than that.

But if you were dealing with a Canadian or South American and they told you that they didn't care for the term...  You might ask what they might prefer better...  Then you would have a choice... either using your favorite term and risk alienating them.... or use their term and continue to do whatever business you had with them...  The choice of which consequence you want would be clearly before you and yours to make... And their response would be very understandable

[LeSellers]

2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Maybe it's you that's being intolerant of our view. Again, I don't think it's the term that bothers us-though it does-it's the fact that you still use it even though you know it bothers us. 

I'm not the one insisting on everyone else's conforming to my preferences. I tolerate your usage much better than you tolerate (which is to say, not at all) mine.

However, I give up. It's USA/an(s) from now on.

Lehi

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by LeSellers

[unixknight]

“He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool.”
― Brigham Young