Universal Health Care

[pam]

Another article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...38.html?sub=new

[Moksha]

yes....I do like his idea ........I just don't want my taxes going higher because of it.....I am still not a fan of universal health care if it means I have to pay more taxes.

Sort of like these darn roads. I like driving on them, but man, do I have to pay for them? Wouldn't it be cheaper if we just paid for our own individual roads?

What? You say that is ridiculous not to work together on roads? But what if the asphalt industry had a really powerful lobby?

[the Ogre]

. . . But what if the asphalt industry had a really powerful lobby?

It kinda does. Concrete in particular. You know those concrete walls that line the highways; they hardly do anything except keep people from seeing the expressway and giving teenagers another place to express angst.

[CrimsonKairos]

That would actually be a good idea, Moksha.

Instead of letting government agencies accept bids from ineffective companies and taking more tax money to pave roads than is needed, the citizenry of counties, cities, states, etc... should be responsible for paving the roads. We should pool all the money that would have gone to taxes for road improvement, and then accept bids ourselves.

[Elphaba]

what's wrong emma.....not able to find the wash post article.....

Yes, I found it Pale. But it only gave me the first few paragraphs and then wanted me to order the paper. You must already subscribe, or perhaps it computer generates random people to subscribe. Perhaps it's something else completely.

The point is I did not want to subscribe for one article. Did you actually read it? It wasn't an anti-Romney piece at all.

So, to help us all understand what Romney's plan was, I found another article that seemed to outline the particulars. I thought it would help us all understand the particulars as we talked about it. No ulterior motives here.

Must you always think the worst of me?

Elphaba

[sgallan]

Sometimes I wonder if the people opposed to taxes being used for health insurance for all Americans are even aware of how many families there are who simply cannot afford health care and are merely pay checks away from financial ruin.

For the most part they don't really care. That isn't their problem. Those two cars in the garage is more important.

This nation is a lot of things, but outside of a catastropy, compassion isn't really part of our national psyche. This can be shown by the health care issue, the number of abortions we have, how callous we are to those who are born into abyssmal situations, and how many people we lock up.

[Alaskagain]

For the most part they don't really care. That isn't their problem. Those two cars in the garage is more important.

Well, you got me there. Those two cars in my garage are all I ever think about.

The Massachusetts plan requires everyone (household/single person) living in Massachusetts to purchase a health insurance policy; similar to mandatory automobile insurance for every car owned or licensed driver. The end result is that premiums fell and coverage widened, because the market expanded by coercion. I don't know if any taxes were raised in the process. I imagine, though I have not personally researched it, that anyone who is below a certain income level still receives Medicaid. It is possible that even the poor have to pay small premiums or copayments.

[Palerider]

<div class='quotemain'>what's wrong emma.....not able to find the wash post article.....

Yes, I found it Pale. But it only gave me the first few paragraphs and then wanted me to order the paper. You must already subscribe, or perhaps it computer generates random people to subscribe. Perhaps it's something else completely.

The point is I did not want to subscribe for one article. Did you actually read it? It wasn't an anti-Romney piece at all.

So, to help us all understand what Romney's plan was, I found another article that seemed to outline the particulars. I thought it would help us all understand the particulars as we talked about it. No ulterior motives here.

Must you always think the worst of me?

Elphaba

hey Emma...if I have a problem with you....you will be the first to know.....if you think otherwise...its your choice,.....

Sometimes I wonder if the people opposed to taxes being used for health insurance for all Americans are even aware of how many families there are who simply cannot afford health care and are merely pay checks away from financial ruin.

For the most part they don't really care. That isn't their problem. Those two cars in the garage is more important.

This nation is a lot of things, but outside of a catastropy, compassion isn't really part of our national psyche. This can be shown by the health care issue, the number of abortions we have, how callous we are to those who are born into abyssmal situations, and how many people we lock up.

ever think of the families out there struggling to get by and would like more of their money....instead of paying higher taxes.....seems like thats always the first thing we turn to in this country...lets raise taxes.....

[Elphaba]

hey Emma...if I have a problem with you....you will be the first to know.....if you think otherwise...its your choice,.....

Right.

Elphaba

[Palerider]

<div class='quotemain'>hey Emma...if I have a problem with you....you will be the first to know.....if you think otherwise...its your choice,.....

Right.

Elphaba

[sgallan]

ever think of the families out there struggling to get by and would like more of their money....instead of paying higher taxes.....seems like thats always the first thing we turn to in this country...lets raise taxes.....

See, just as I said... no compassion.... money trumps potentially life or death situations.

[Alaskagain]

See, just as I said... no compassion.... money trumps potentially life or death situations.

And exactly what part of not raising taxes results in no compassion?

[sgallan]

If you haven't already gotten my point then I am guessing you won't. It doesn't matter..... if I die then I die. It's no big deal. Seriously. If I don't care I wouldn't expect anybody else to either.... it is part of my heritage.

[Alaskagain]

If you haven't already gotten my point then I am guessing you won't. It doesn't matter..... if I die then I die. It's no big deal. Seriously. If I don't care I wouldn't expect anybody else to either.... it is part of my heritage.

I get your point. You don't have health insurance. You want me to buy it for you.

[sgallan]

No I don't... I already told you I don't worry whether I live or die. I've lived my entire life in a way that I have cheated death countless times. It is not an issue with me.

But I do get your point.... you don't care if a single dad dies. It is our heritage. It is our collective culture. It is what we are. I am cool with it. You on the other hand seem to be annoyed with the characterization.

[Alaskagain]

No I don't... I already told you I don't worry whether I live or die. I've lived my entire life in a way that I have cheated death countless times. It is not an issue with me.

But I do get your point.... you don't care if a single dad dies. It is our heritage. It is our collective culture. It is what we are. I am cool with it. You on the other hand seem to be annoyed with the characterization.

I am not at all annoyed. I certainly do care when people die. I get sad all the time because I hear about perfect strangers who have died in bad circumstances. I care about how people live. I respect that you are a single dad, taking care of your child(ren). It is not in my heritage not to care about other people. I simply don't "get" why you think I have no compassion if I don't want to pay higher taxes, or pay for other people's health insurance. Can you clarify that for me, please?

[prisonchaplain]

Alaska, surely you understand. If we have people in this powerful rich nation of ours who work fulltime, parent well, and yet, do not have adaquate healthcare coverage, then perhaps those with better-paying jobs should chip in so more people are covered? It would mean raising taxes, I suppose, but it's what decent society does. Universal healthcare may not be the answer. But, having upper middle class and rich people insured, while poor people use the emergency rooms, and the barely middle class and "working poor," simply do without and hope nothing really bad happens, is not acceptable.

Someone like Scott Gallon should at least have catastrophic healthcare insurance.

[Elphaba]

Alaska, surely you understand. If we have people in this powerful rich nation of ours who work fulltime, parent well, and yet, do not have adaquate healthcare coverage, then perhaps those with better-paying jobs should chip in so more people are covered? It would mean raising taxes, I suppose, but it's what decent society does. Universal healthcare may not be the answer. But, having upper middle class and rich people insured, while poor people use the emergency rooms, and the barely middle class and "working poor," simply do without and hope nothing really bad happens, is not acceptable.

Someone like Scott Gallon should at least have catastrophic healthcare insurance.

Outstanding.

Elphaba

[pam]

<div class='quotemain'>

Alaska, surely you understand. If we have people in this powerful rich nation of ours who work fulltime, parent well, and yet, do not have adaquate healthcare coverage, then perhaps those with better-paying jobs should chip in so more people are covered? It would mean raising taxes, I suppose, but it's what decent society does. Universal healthcare may not be the answer. But, having upper middle class and rich people insured, while poor people use the emergency rooms, and the barely middle class and "working poor," simply do without and hope nothing really bad happens, is not acceptable.

Someone like Scott Gallon should at least have catastrophic healthcare insurance.

Outstanding.

Elphaba

Ditto ditto.

[sgallan]

I simply don't "get" why you think I have no compassion if I don't want to pay higher taxes, or pay for other people's health insurance. Can you clarify that for me, please?

Because when you hit a certain age it becomes a life or death situation for those who worry about such things. I could have prostrate cancer, a heart condition, or any number of treatable conditions, that aren't getting diagnosed, that hit people my age all of the time, but I'll never know until it's to late, because I can't afford it. Like I said; I don't give a crap. A lot of other people worry about such things though. People with families and children and so forth. It is their lives that are at stake. Hence the reason I suggest you have no compassion. Sure, you care if you read a well written tragic story, or see something is right in front of you. But others...... those 30-40 million uninsured.... and the others lost in a fairly tough society..... well you don't really see them..... you don't really care..... they are just numbers on a paper.... and not real people.

And guess what? If I were to kick off because of something like that, or get a huge bill, I'm not paying it. And there is no such thing as debtors prison for anything other than taxes. And if I die..... now society gets to use a lot of taxpayer money, to help whoever gets my kid. But that is a calculated risk the government takes. It figures it is cheaper to gamble that folks like me won't die, then it is to insure everybody, and pay out for those that don't make it. It's kind of morbid.... but businesses do those calculations everyday (sometimes it doesn't work out as with the Pinto).

FWIW, when folks decide to have an abortion, because they don't want to, or not ready to, bring a child into this world..... I am on their side. This is a great and powerful nation, but a pretty much dog eat dog nation as well. I can see why they might not want to do so. Crap, it's hard enough even if you want a kid, if you don't this society doesn't care much for them when they are born, so I figure they are better off not being born.

[BenRaines]

I would like to work part time so I can spend time with my children and have someone else pay for our medical care, food supplement stamps and govt paid housing. I am sure that a lot of people wouldn't mind but if more and more chose to have the government support their part time lifestyle who would pay the bill? The only place the government gets money is to tax those who work and those who work harder or smarter tax them more.

So if we all work less and rely on the government more who will pay the bill? The governments only way to raise money is to increase taxes or print money and that is inflationary.

My two cents worth. Opps should have sent it to the government because we know that they know how to spend it better than we do.

Ben Raines

[sgallan]

And if somebody like me (but who actually cares) dies as a result..... no problem. People die all of the time. Stuff happens. That is my general attitude as well which is why I don't sweat the abortion thing either.

[Palerider]

And if somebody like me (but who actually cares) dies as a result..... no problem. People die all of the time. Stuff happens. That is my general attitude as well which is why I don't sweat the abortion thing either.

Am I correct in saying you have no compassion for anyone but yourself......when I read your posts it gives me that feeling.....

[sgallan]

That is the way I think our entire nation is as a culture. We can cavalierly put 30-40 million people under a financial gun, and even survival gun, without much concern. I am just a product of my environment.

You have to understand..... I have worked with inmates, at risk kids, and I know dang well what people think about them. There is no compassion. You like your own. And perhaps what is in front of you. But the rest can die. Or be raised in abyssmal environments later to end up in prison. If you don't care about them...... why should I care about your pet "thing"? I used to care. But y'all won me over.

[Palerider]

That is the way I think our entire nation is as a culture. We can cavalierly put 30-40 million people under a financial gun, and even survival gun, without much concern. I am just a product of my environment.

You have to understand..... I have worked with inmates, at risk kids, and I know dang well what people think about them. There is no compassion. You like your own. And perhaps what is in front of you. But the rest can die. Or be raised in abyssmal environments later to end up in prison. If you don't care about them...... why should I care about your pet "thing"?

I believe and know there is part of a culture out there that does care about people....but I don't recall the test being whether they would toss everyone free healthcare....