What is a G-d

[Traveler]

Do we know what a G-d is?  Does G-d only become a G-d by doing certain things.  So that before those things were done G-g was not G-d?

 

The Traveler 

[NeedleinA]

Great question Traveler. This two quotes...do not answer your direct question, but I thought I would post them anyways.

Desert News: Defending the Faith: Mormonism in recent book 'Becoming Devine'

Elder Parley P. Pratt, an early LDS apostle, summarized that idea well in his book “Key to the Science of Theology”:
“Gods, angels and man are all of the same species,” he wrote, “they comprise a great family which is distributed over the whole solar system in the form of colonies, kingdoms, nations, etc. The great decisive difference between one part of this race and the other consists in the differing degrees of intelligence and purity and also in the difference of the spheres, which each of them inhabit, in a series of progressive Being.”

lds.org Becoming Like God:

The following April, feeling he was “never in any nearer relationship to God than at the present time,” Joseph Smith spoke about the nature of God and the future of humankind to the Saints... “What kind of a being is God?” he asked. Human beings needed to know, he argued, because “if men do not comprehend the character of God they do not comprehend themselves.”... God “was once as one of us” and “all the spirits that God ever sent into the world” were likewise “susceptible of enlargement.”

[Edspringer]

4 hours ago, Traveler said:

Do we know what a G-d is?  Does G-d only become a G-d by doing certain things.  So that before those things were done G-g was not G-d?

 

The Traveler 

Excellent question!

I think it leads us all to ponder on this sacred matter, as it is extremely linked to our on salvation and exaltation.

As we don’t know by personal experience the nature of God, let us base our discussion on what the scriptures have to have, for they are our true source for the moment:

Alma 26:35

Now have we not reason to rejoice? Yea, I say unto you, there never were men that had so great reason to rejoice as we, since the world began; yea, and my joy is carried away, even unto boasting in my God; for he has all power, all wisdom, and all understanding; he comprehendeth all things, and he is a merciful Being, even unto salvation, to those who will repent and believe on his name.

D&C 88:41

He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever

Moses 6:57

Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time.

I also found this talk ny Elder Holland on the subject:

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/triple-index/god-eternal-nature-of?lang=eng

Also the Index to the Triple Combination gives us the following:

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/triple-index/god-eternal-nature-of?lang=eng

·         The course of the Lord is one eternal round: 1 Ne. 10:19 . ( Alma 7:20 . )

·         the Eternal Father: 1 Ne. 11:21 . ( 1 Ne. 13:40 ; Mosiah 15:4 ; Mosiah 16:15 ; Alma 11:38–39 ;Morm. 6:22 ; Moro. 4:3 ; Moro. 5:2 ; Moro. 10:4, 31 . )

·         the Everlasting God: 1 Ne. 11:32 . ( 1 Ne. 15:15 ; 2 Ne. 4:35 ; Hel. 12:8 ; Moro. 10:28)

·         the Eternal God: 1 Ne. 12:18 . ( 2 Ne. 9:8 ; Alma 34:9 ; Ether 8:23 . )

·         the everlasting Maker: Hel. 1:11 .

·         the Lord changes not: 3 Ne. 24:6 . ( Moro. 8:18 . )

·         God is same yesterday, today, forever: Morm. 9:9 .

·         no variableness or shadow of changing in God: Morm. 9:9–10 .

·         God changes not, or he would cease to be God: Morm. 9:19 .

·         God knows all things, being from everlasting to everlasting: Moro. 7:22 .

·         God’s course is one eternal round: D&C 3:2 . ( D&C 35:1 . )

·         God is endless: D&C 19:4, 10 .

·         name of God is Endless: D&C 19:10 .

·         God is same yesterday, today, forever: D&C 20:12 .

·         God is infinite, eternal, unchangeable, from everlasting to everlasting: D&C 20:17 .

·         works of God have no end, nor beginning: D&C 29:33 .

·          ( D&C 38:1 ; D&C 45:7 ;D&C 54:1 ; D&C 61:1 . )

·         from eternity to eternity, the Lord is same: D&C 76:4 .

·         the Holy One is without beginning of days or end of life: D&C 78:16 .

·         council of the Eternal God of all other gods: D&C 121:32 .

·         Endless is God’s name: Moses 1:3 .

·         God is without beginning of days or end of years: Moses 1:3 . ( Moses 6:67 . )

·         Endless and Eternal is God’s name: Moses 7:35 .

 

The Encyclopedia of Mormonism is also a good source on the subject:

http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/God_the_Father

Anyway, we can see that God is more than a man. His is an exalted man, with a body of flash and bones, but perfect, and has all power and all wisdom. He is immortal and has eternal live (spiritual offspring).

I strongly believe that we can learn much about who God is by looking to ourselves. We are His children and have inherited divine characteristics (creativeness, bear offspring, love, compassion, reasoning, thoughts, we can go back to the past and project to the future with our thoughts, power to learn, etc).

Well, I think it’s a good point of departure for discussion.

[Blackmarch]

11 hours ago, Traveler said:

Do we know what a G-d is?  Does G-d only become a G-d by doing certain things.  So that before those things were done G-g was not G-d?

 

The Traveler 

A being that knows good and evil. and looking at our culture and society I don't think we're close to really understanding good and evil.

[SpiritDragon]

12 hours ago, Traveler said:

Do we know what a G-d is?  Does G-d only become a G-d by doing certain things.  So that before those things were done G-g was not G-d?

 

The Traveler 

I'm glad you've asked this important question - you'd think it would be simple to answer, but it is not - at least for me. Some thoughts:

• God is a calling or office that requires a great deal of purity and absolute dedication and obedience.
• God is a class or category describing the perfect maturation of the human species
• God is a constant ideology

In any event God is made up of several component parts, and yet is One. Certainly the hope of many latter day saints is to become gods and goddesses and in so doing become one with God. It seems safe to say that while our Heavenly Father is God, that God is more than just our Heavenly Father - we know that the Holy Ghost and the son are also God, but God is not just the Holy Ghost or just the son.

So then what is it that we become one with? Do we become one within a specific class or category wherein multiple parts can be of the same or One. Perhaps God is a family - even though we refer to any particular member of the godhead as God, that certainly doesn't mean that God is limited to the Godhead. The god-head may be a reference to the heads of the family?

There is One priesthood - although there are divisions within it such as the Melchizedek, Aaronic and possibly others such as the Patriarchal priesthood - all are simply appendages to the one priesthood. Also within the one priesthood there are many priesthood holders and many different offices. Perhaps Godhood is more encompassing than we typically tend to think. For instance an angel that always does the will of the Father may very well have achieved oneness, and yet I tend not to think of angels as God but certainly part of the kingdom of God. I feel that I can say that I don't know "what" God is, but I have a good idea of the character of God - essentially who God is - God's personality. I think this is the more important piece of the puzzle to work out in this life and to emulate - but the what is certainly fascinating.

[SpiritDragon]

Actually taking the God is a family point a step further, I've never really understood why we can't be saved without doing the temple work for our ancestors. If the family needs to be sealed together as one, it is very important indeed for us to have these connections in place to tie us in to the literal oneness of family or oneness of God as it were in this context.

[Traveler]

Is it possible that a G-d is a type of being and that their power, glory, worthiness and such is dependent on their love, compassion,service and holiness. I believe that Satan is referred to in scripture as the G-g of this world?

 

The Traveler 

[SpiritDragon]

It's certainly possible, but I suppose shy of some new revelation we'll not likely know until the next life.

Based on the understanding that we all have the potential to be gods, it would seem that we are all this type of being - of course in our fallen state we cannot realize further potential without the Atonement of Christ. Interestingly this seems to refer to the becoming unified as One aspect again.

Assuming that the intelligences that can be made into the spirit bodies patterned after our Exalted parentage which can go on to become humans and then onto godhood constitute the type of being that make up God, but only those who are purified and brought forth from a fallen state actually become part of the collective one true God? 

Musings that may seem repetitive:

The Father is God, The Son is God, the Holy Ghost is God, based on the idea of eternal marriage sealing two as one then the goddess spouses must also be God - but God is not any one of these, God is more.  God is love - is love God?

...the family is central to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children... fundamental unit of society. Fundamental unit of Heaven? Fundamental unit(y) of God?

I have to say that I am seeing a strong case for the idea of One true and living God - being one truly united and happy family continuing to progress and grow. its almost as if God is a family name and each individual member is therefore God by name, but God is greater than any one individual - as is the family. So those beings who are united through the sealing power to this family of God are adopted in and become one with God and thereby become God. Those who are not sealed or choose not to keep the covenants of the sealing do not become part of the one truly united family that constitutes God.

[Guest]

I believe we're mixing definitions when we include Satan in the mix of a "god".  By this I mean that if you look up a definition in the dictionary, you'll find several entries.  The Father is one, the Son and Holy Ghost another, Satan still another.

To understand, let's take a look at what has defined "gods" historically.

1) A powerful being, specifically one who could perform "miracles'. To the ancients, this was rather easy to satisfy. A few magician's tricks, and you're a god.  But in their belief systems, they had to be real miracles.  Avatars or agents or prophets were different because the power to perform was "borrowed" rather than innate.

2) A god had to be immortal, and specifically had power over life and death.  We know that no one has power to raise from the dead except the true God.  But this was an important distinction when tales were told of wizards and sorcerers who could "cast spells" which could certainly fit the definition of miracles.  But they were not gods.

3) Gods in both myth and religion were objects of worship.  Worship is also a word that requires some definitions.  But under this one, Satan qualifies.  This is why he is the "god of this world".  Many worship materialism, hedonism, idolatry, etc.  By worshipping these things, people by extension worship Satan.

4) A quality, but not necessarily a part of the definition, of a god was that he had to have power he could exercise over you. This was also why various kings and other royal titles (pharaoh) were worshipped as gods in some ancient cultures.

5) Many faiths include the quality of "creator" as part of the role or even definition of "God".

6) In most of the more common faiths in the US, we also have judge and savior as a role and definition of God.

Taking a look at this list, and excluding Satan, we begin to see a pattern.  To truly answer the OP, If I understand the question properly, then we need to take a hard look at what is a "descriptor" vs. what is part of the "definition".

Another part of the OP was also about "becoming" God.  If by this, you mean "what is the source of his power?" then we know two things a) The Glory of God is intelligence and b) the first law of heaven is obedience.  He has power because he's perfectly in tune with everything and is a living urim and thummim to the point where he truly knows all things at all times.  He sees things as they really are and as they really will be.  He is also perfectly obedient to eternal principles.  By being thusly obedient, the universe obeys him.  By always speaking truth, His word causes things to be so.

[Traveler]

11 hours ago, SpiritDragon said:

 

I have to say that I am seeing a strong case for the idea of One true and living God - being one truly united and happy family continuing to progress and grow. its almost as if God is a family name and each individual member is therefore God by name, but God is greater than any one individual - as is the family. So those beings who are united through the sealing power to this family of God are adopted in and become one with God and thereby become God. Those who are not sealed or choose not to keep the covenants of the sealing do not become part of the one truly united family that constitutes God.

I hope you find this thread enlightening and interesting.  I have wondered about the phrase one True and Living G-d.  The initial idea is that there is one unique G-d-being that is true and living.  Could the revelation actually mean that any G-d-being that become True and Living of necessity must and will be "one" with the Father, Son and Holy Ghost - which are likewise one.  There is however one possible logic hitch with this - but for now I will leave this problem as an exercise for the logic experts of the forum.

 

The Traveler

[SpiritDragon]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Another part of the OP was also about "becoming" God.  If by this, you mean "what is the source of his power?" then we know two things a) The Glory of God is intelligence and b) the first law of heaven is obedience.  He has power because he's perfectly in tune with everything and is a living urim and thummim to the point where he truly knows all things at all times.  He sees things as they really are and as they really will be.  He is also perfectly obedient to eternal principles.  By being thusly obedient, the universe obeys him.  By always speaking truth, His word causes things to be so.

 

I think a lot of it stems back to the why marriage is important thread and certain theories about how the Saviour might have required marriage premortally to be considered God. So although we have a great idea about all the covenants and processes involved in becoming gods ourselves - there is a question of order I suppose. To my understanding LDS teaching maintains that to be Exalted requires Celestial Marriage or sealing. Thus some could question how is it possible for the son and Holy Ghost to be God without having eternal companions - now my take is simply that with an eternal perspective knowing that the sealing will take place is sufficient. I do believe that Christ either is or will be sealed to an eternal companion, but I don't think that the order of the event dictates whether or not He is God - more as a blessing that will not be withheld.

[anatess2]

On 6/12/2016 at 8:49 PM, Traveler said:

Is it possible that a G-d is a type of being and that their power, glory, worthiness and such is dependent on their love, compassion,service and holiness. I believe that Satan is referred to in scripture as the G-g of this world?

 

The Traveler 

Okay, this is confusing - "type of being".  What does "Being" mean here?

LDS teaches that there are no different types of "being" (when used to mean ousia).  God, Saints, Angels, Satan, Man... all the same type of being (ousia).

God is Exaltation.  It goes beyond just the Will (which encompasses love, compassion, service, holiness, etc. - that's all Will exercised freely).  It also includes physical body.  Our mortality is simply training wheels to teach us how to "drive" our eternal bodies that God has created for us in His image.  That perfection of knowledge and Will, exercised freely with perfect cleanliness allows us to have the eternal bodies that are the tabernacle of our spirits and allows us to be God.  To be God, therefore, is all that.

The following paragraph is my own ponderings - not doctrinal or anything.

My understanding is that Jesus Christ became God through a Plan outside of OUR Plan of Salvation so that when He volunteered to atone for our sins and be the Savior in our Plan of Salvation, He was already God.  I believe that Jesus Christ was The Father's literal Son, the first Sealed to The Father in their Plan.  What their Plan involves, I don't bother to contemplate.  I know what OUR Plan is.

Edited June 13, 2016 by anatess2

[NeedleinA]

50 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

It also includes physical body. 

Where does this leave the Holy Ghost, also a God? 
Okay, just for fun...is the Holy Ghost a "God", or simply (no disrespect) a member of the Godhead, but not a God himself? Like a Bishopric... a counselor is a member of the Bishopric (Bishoprichead) but not an actual Bishop...

10 Brownie points to someone who can post where it says the Holy Ghost is a God himself, versus a "member of the Godhead". This is just for fun

[CV75]

On 6/10/2016 at 10:12 AM, Traveler said:

Do we know what a G-d is?  Does G-d only become a G-d by doing certain things.  So that before those things were done G-g was not G-d?

A god is what is worshipped. A good description of a God s our God, and is revealed in D&C 93 (verse 19 says, “I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.” God offers “fullness.”

From the various verses in Section 93, we learn that:

1 He is (“I am”)

2  The true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world;

3  The Son and the Father as one

7  He was in the beginning, before the world was

8  The Word, even the messenger of salvation

9 The light and the Redeemer of the world; the Spirit of truth, in him was and is the life of men and the light of men, he created the world

10 He makes worlds, men and all things; makes all things exist by and and of him.

11 He is full of grace and truth, even the Spirit of truth, which came and dwelt in the flesh, and dwelt among us.

17 He possesses all power, both in heaven and on earth

20 Gives commandments, delivers promises, and allows grace for grace.

21 He was in the beginning

22 He begets sons and daughters I a second birth.

26 He is the Spirit of truth, and has a fulness of truth, yea, even of all truth;

30 He places truth to be independent in that sphere in which He has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

31 He leads the way for all men to receive a fulness of joy.

37 He forsakes that evil one.

38 He redeemed man from the fall

This is just a start, and the "Who" is far greater than the "What."

[Edspringer]

5 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Where does this leave the Holy Ghost, also a God? 
Okay, just for fun...is the Holy Ghost a "God", or simply (no disrespect) a member of the Godhead, but not a God himself? Like a Bishopric... a counselor is a member of the Bishopric (Bishoprichead) but not an actual Bishop...

10 Brownie points to someone who can post where it says the Holy Ghost is a God himself, versus a "member of the Godhead". This is just for fun

Alma 11:44

[Traveler]

Though it was touched on - I had hoped the there would be more reference to you and I - us humans.  Not only are we the same species but we are of the royal family - of which all that worship the true and living G-d do indeed worship our Father.  Also see John 10:34-35.

[vmethot]

I don't know how well this answers the original questions but it does fit the theme of the answers. I have written a couple blog posts in the past that address part of this issue.

The Unity of God - God wants us to become one with Him.

The Only True God - There is only one. I like the comment above about 'God' being a family name. That is a good analogy; perhaps not perfect, but good.

To address the third question, I have wondered this too. Christ was God before He came to earth, was He still God while He was on earth? The Holy Ghost is God, yet he is not resurrected. Are we God because we are children of God? Are Gods in embryo God? Are we/they God until we/they choose otherwise by disobedience? We are eternal beings, but being eternal does not make us God. I think any answer to these questions is complete speculation but I'll get my answers some day, perhaps during the millennium or after.

[vmethot]

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Edited June 27, 2016 by vmethot
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