Does Asian Privilege Exist?


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I've looked at several surveys/studies done on this topic.  While the numbers varied somewhat from study to study, the overall pattern was quite consistent.

If you believe in white privilege, do you also believe in Asian privilege?  Why or why not?

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Asian privilege?  Hah hah... That is hilarious.

Asians in America excel in a lot of things because Asians tend to have a solid family structure that demands respect and they come to America cognizant of the rule of law because they put a lot of stock on "honor" and getting put in jail or anything like that brings dishonor not just to themselves but to their families as well.  Asians are more than capable of bringing Keeping Up With the Jones's to a new level.

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Privilege is a wonderful thing.  You should get as much as you can, for your betterment and the betterment of your spouse, children, neighborhood, and community.  

Want special advantages from God?  Enter into the Abrahamic covenant.  Be adopted into the family especially favored above all others by God.  It may not be popular to say or think about these days, but it is as valid a part of the gospel as it ever was.

The zero-sum-game thinking that if you are winning, someone must be losing, is a lie of satan, and one of the reasons our country is going to hell.  

Edited by NeuroTypical
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2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Privilege is a wonderful thing.  You should get as much as you can, for your betterment and the betterment of your spouse, children, neighborhood, and community.  

The zero-sum-game thinking that if you are winning, someone must be losing, is a lie of satan, and one of the reasons our country is going to hell.  

My understanding of the use of the word "privilege" in White Privilege is that Whites don't have to earn such privilege.  It simply exists.  So Asian privilege is also privilege that was not earned but simply exists.  Silly thought, that.

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Guest MormonGator
5 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

 

The zero-sum-game thinking that if you are winning, someone must be losing, is a lie of satan, and one of the reasons our country is going to hell.  

 Amen. Beautifully said. 

 

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I think the responses so far come from those who don't believe "white privilege" exists.  My question was for those who DO believe white privilege exists.  I'm looking for those who cry out about white privilege, but let Asians slide are also showing a bias.  If the fact that we excel is, in and of itself, a sign of privilege, then why are Asians not called out for the same thing that whites are called out for?

No, I'm not asking to be called out.  I'm saying there appears to be an inconsistency in the concept of "privilege".

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Depending on where you go and who you are around, all sorts of privileges exist.  Black privilege is absolutely a thing, so is Appalachian privilege, young privilege, old privilege.  White privilege is absolutely a thing.  

So yes, my response is from someone who does believe white privilege exists.  

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6 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I think the responses so far come from those who don't believe "white privilege" exists.  My question was for those who DO believe white privilege exists.  I'm looking for those who cry out about white privilege, but let Asians slide are also showing a bias.  If the fact that we excel is, in and of itself, a sign of privilege, then why are Asians not called out for the same thing that whites are called out for?

No, I'm not asking to be called out.  I'm saying there appears to be an inconsistency in the concept of "privilege".

White privilege DO exist!  I believe it!  I don't think it's bad at all that it exists, but it does exist.

I mean, look, you go to the Philippines and you're white, you get treated a whole lot differently than if you're dark skinned (Arabs, blacks, dark skinned Asians, Pacific Islanders, etc.).  There's something about being white in the Philippines that automatically puts the thought of "good person" in Filipino brains.  It's quite normal to see skin whitening creams advertised on TV every hour or so... but that's cool.  Their struggle is a whole lot different than ours but they do still struggle.  I mean, c'mon... SPF100???

Asian privilege is a silly concept.  It is not Asian privilege that puts Asians on the top of every measurement of success.  Rather, it's everything I told you in my first post.

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

Asian privilege is a silly concept.  It is not Asian privilege that puts Asians on the top of every measurement of success.  Rather, it's everything I told you in my first post.

Doesn't this potentially make the point that racial privilege doesn't exist for anyone? (I'm not saying it does or doesn't) But if the reason Asians are more successful in a somewhat capitalistic society because of hard work and good family values - does it not stand to reason that any other group of people could do the same? Is it not very possible, if not plausible that the disparity between races is due not to discrimination against particular races by the others, but by the social climate particular groups of people are raised in. 

On a side note, is there no poverty in Asia??? Obviously there is plenty - and I doubt it has much to do with people being unwilling to work and such. But it leads me to wonder if only the highly driven and successful Asians make it to America, thus skewing these measures in their favour. Are we more likely to deport illegal immigrants from Asia than other places? 

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I saw this post on Facebook. I don't have any citations to back it up, but I trust the person that posted it to do unbiased research and measure it carefully.

 

Quote

 My own research in the last few years has led to APPALLING discoveries of forced segregation due to laws denying homeownership to black people. Predominately white communities had better schools, resources, sanitation, transportation, all the while-- the values of their homes increased exponentially-- building automatic wealth. Black communities overwhelmingly had failing sanitation systems, dysfunctional schools, less access to jobs and health care, no public transportation and essentially zero opportunities to build wealth. Rents increased with inflation and economic growth, all while white people were lining their own pockets with growing home values.

 

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(Advance apology for the length and thread-jack)

7 hours ago, Eowyn said:

I saw this post on Facebook. I don't have any citations to back it up, but I trust the person that posted it to do unbiased research and measure it carefully.

Quote

 My own research in the last few years has led to APPALLING discoveries of forced segregation due to laws denying homeownership to black people. Predominately white communities had better schools, resources, sanitation, transportation, all the while-- the values of their homes increased exponentially-- building automatic wealth. Black communities overwhelmingly had failing sanitation systems, dysfunctional schools, less access to jobs and health care, no public transportation and essentially zero opportunities to build wealth. Rents increased with inflation and economic growth, all while white people were lining their own pockets with growing home values.

 

IMO, such things as described in that quote (if accurate) would disappear quite quickly if references were provided.  If this friend did the research, then why not tell the title, chapter, and section where such laws are found?  For example, the Utah code is here: http://le.utah.gov/xcode/code.html.  I'm pretty sure all states and most cities / counties have their code available online.

I mean if there's really a law which says: "People of [race here] may not own property in [location here]."  I think we could kill that pretty fast just by making it known.  We've reached a point, in the US, where that sort of thing isn't tolerated by the vast majority.  (We've mostly moved on to other forms of prejudice.)  So I have to assume there's no such a law, and instead, the person who made that statement is referring to laws which allocate infrastructure maintenance funds based on property value (or something like that).

E.g.: Income from property taxes make infrastructure maintenance affordable in areas with high-value property and not affordable in areas with low-value property.  Therefore, if you live in an expensive house, you're likely to have better roads, schools, etc. than if you live in a cheap house.

If that's the sort of thing your friend is talking about, then the laws are not racially motivated, but economically motivated.  That this appears to be racial is because things done in past generations have led to greater poverty among some races than others, but it's no longer a matter of racism (for the most part), it's a matter of wealth vs poverty (and the same problems can be seen in areas where it's white people who are extremely poor).  Trying to solve it as a racial issue will fail (this is what politicians are currently trying to do, and they're making it worse).  Trying to solve it as an economic issue has a better chance, IMO.  Saying "there are laws denying homeownership to black people" doesn't help us unless that is literally true rather than effectively true for those black (and other) people who happen to be extremely poor and are subject to laws and polices which aren't going to help them change that fact.*  Instead, it masks the real problem and prevents all efforts at meaningful discussion and possible solution.

Here is a concrete example of a law which unfairly favors the wealthy: In the attached graphic, we see a big house in the same county as a bunch of normal-sized houses (maybe 2-3,000 square feet).  The red rectangle on the pic of the big house outlines its garage.  Most of those little houses would fit inside that garage.  The big house is on a large bit of land.  If you examine that land, there's nothing on it which looks like "agriculture".  My assumption is that they've classified some cluster of trees as a "tree farm" (but that's just my best guess).  Whatever they've done, it has met the minimum requirement to classify the land as "agricultural" rather than "residential" (only a law / lawyer would see any truth in that classification).  The land where all those little houses are is classified as "residential" (duh).  That big house pays less in property taxes (not per acre or sq ft, but total) than any one of those little houses.  This is clearly idiotic.  The county could solve this unfairness by taxing the residential square footage (regardless of whether there's a family farm on the property or just a single-family home).  The farm family aren't likely to have much larger a home (if larger at all) than the suburbanites.  Then the owner of that big house (same family as own Hobby Lobby, in case you're wondering) would pay a property tax which was fair when compared to the property tax of the folks in those "little" houses.

This, IMO, is an example of idiocy used (and I can't blame them) by the rich to their advantage, but which someone less rich could never take advantage of (and in fact, here we have middle-class people subsidizing the infrastructure enjoyed by rich dude).  Whether the laws are this way because someone was short-sighted (most likely in my mind) or because some rich dude finagled a sweet deal (possible), I have no idea, but it is a good example of flawed laws, IMO.

For the record: I am opposed to property (as in land and house) tax.  It's outdated and there are better ways now, but people are lazy and aren't going to change things like this just because I think they should.

*Also for the record, I think the solution to this problem is simple.  It's called the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

All of this comes from the same place as my original reply in this thread.  I don't think "white privilege" exists in this country (anymore) so much as "rich privilege".  Many white people benefit from our history in the way that black people don't.  But the solution for all of us is the same: excel to the best of your ability.  Look for and take better opportunities.  Don't wait for offers or hand-outs.  Make your own opportunities by having complete integrity, and by excelling at whatever you do.  If you do that, your situation will improve over time (even if you can never afford the Hobby Lobby house, you'll still be better than you started and, if you have the right attitude, perfectly happy with your success).  If you're not willing to do that, well, you can blame history all you want, but it's not gonna come back and help you out.

PropertyTax.jpg

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14 hours ago, anatess2 said:

White privilege DO exist!  I believe it!  I don't think it's bad at all that it exists, but it does exist.

I mean, look, you go to the Philippines and you're white, you get treated a whole lot differently than if you're dark skinned (Arabs, blacks, dark skinned Asians, Pacific Islanders, etc.).  There's something about being white in the Philippines that automatically puts the thought of "good person" in Filipino brains.  It's quite normal to see skin whitening creams advertised on TV every hour or so... but that's cool.  Their struggle is a whole lot different than ours but they do still struggle.  I mean, c'mon... SPF100???

Asian privilege is a silly concept.  It is not Asian privilege that puts Asians on the top of every measurement of success.  Rather, it's everything I told you in my first post.

Like I said.  There is an inconsistency in such declarations.  Look at Eowyn's recent post.  It cites conditions. It does nothing to study the causes.  It seems that "privilege" is not about causes but results.  And regardless of causes, just blame it on race.

In your post quoted here you indicate that whites are on top because of race alone.  Asians are on top because of hard work?  Biased, are we?  This is the inconsistency I'm talking about.

Additionally (regarding the skin whitening creams) I find it rather amusing to see that darker skinned people use skin lighteners and white people work on getting a tan.  Asians just look at everyone else and wonder why they're spending money on anything.  But the Korean gal in our ward bleaches her hair blonde.

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14 hours ago, SpiritDragon said:

Doesn't this potentially make the point that racial privilege doesn't exist for anyone? (I'm not saying it does or doesn't) But if the reason Asians are more successful in a somewhat capitalistic society because of hard work and good family values - does it not stand to reason that any other group of people could do the same? Is it not very possible, if not plausible that the disparity between races is due not to discrimination against particular races by the others, but by the social climate particular groups of people are raised in. 

On a side note, is there no poverty in Asia??? Obviously there is plenty - and I doubt it has much to do with people being unwilling to work and such. But it leads me to wonder if only the highly driven and successful Asians make it to America, thus skewing these measures in their favour. Are we more likely to deport illegal immigrants from Asia than other places? 

Privilege doesn't mean you're automatically successful.  Privilege doesn't mean you won't be poor.  That's not it at all.  Privilege doesn't say - you're successful because you're White.  Rather it says - your path to success is straighter, you have lesser obstacles, etc. etc. because you are White.  What you do with your life is still your own work and effort.  Work has nothing to do with Privilege.

Okay, here's a very basic example.  It is so much easier for a White Person to find hair products that matches their hair type than an Asian person in the USA.  This is a fact.  No, it is not because USA is racist against Asians... it simply is because Whites outnumber Asians 15 to 1 and companies want to make money.  This is true for most things - Whites are the majority, therefore, things, by default, are geared towards White people and the minorities have to figure out how to navigate a White world.  This is Privilege.  And like I said, there's nothing wrong with that.  But White Privilege doesn't mean Asians can't succeed in a White world, and more importantly, it doesn't mean Whites can't fail in a White world.  It really only means Asians have to do things differently than Whites to be able to succeed.

A person with all their limbs have Privilege as opposed to a person who is born without legs - a lot of things in the world are geared towards a person with 2 legs.  But that doesn't mean that a person without legs can't succeed - it simply means he has to do things a bit differently.  There's nothing wrong with that.

On the Internet, there is American privilege.  The majority of the internet is American.  Therefore, it is so much easier to find American stuff than it is to find Asian stuff.  When you go to a sales site, it is assumed that you are swiping credit cards from American banks and invoking shipment within the 50 states.  When you're in the Philippines and you go find stuff on the internet it is so much harder - first you have to find the site that sells stuff you like, then you have to check that that site accepts your county's bank cards, then you have to check that it ships to your house... things that Americans don't have to worry too much about.  This is Privilege.  Apply that same concept to Whites and you get a gist of what they're talking about when they say White Privilege.  But just because Americans have Privilege on the internet doesn't mean that they have no problems buying stuff or they're smart about it.  And just because Taiwanese don't have Privilege on the Internet doesn't mean they don't succeed in buying stuff.

What makes White Privilege a stupid argument in racial discussions is when the Minority demands Whites to kowtow to the needs of the minority because they somehow has to pay for that Privilege.  No, they don't.  They are the majority - they get to control the orbit.  We, the minorities, get to figure out how to spin on that same orbit.  Asians succeeding in the USA (with stylish nice hair, even) is proof positive that anybody can spin on a White Majority's orbit. 

It is stupidity for the Majority to ignore the fact that there are benefits to being the Majority.  And it is also stupidity to put unnecessary obstacles in the path of the Majority, and especially to blame them if minorities fail or to even make them feel guilty for being the majority - just to make Minorities feel better about themselves.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

What makes White Privilege a stupid argument in racial discussions is when the Minority demands Whites to kowtow to the needs of the minority because they somehow has to pay for that Privilege.  No, they don't.  They are the majority - they get to control the orbit.  We, the minorities, get to figure out how to spin on that same orbit.  It is stupidity for the Majority to ignore the fact that there are benefits to being the Majority.  And it is also stupidity to put unnecessary obstacles in the path of the Majority - or to even make them feel guilty for it - just to make Minorities feel better about themselves.

And this is how you know whether someone is thinking straight or backward.  Backward thinking is "harm the person with the advantage".  Straight thinking is "help people to find their own advantages".  Backward thinking is "ban shampoo that works well for white people's hair" (or make it artificially expensive).  Straight thinking is "create / sell a shampoo to this niche market".

My question is, why in the world is it so hard for some people to think straight?

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Guest MormonGator
15 minutes ago, zil said:

My question is, why in the world is it so hard for some people to think straight?

Because not everyone agrees with what "straight thinking" is. 

I know it's hard to believe, but very few people wake up and say "We're going to do what we can to screw up the world and create great evil." It doesn't work that way. People usually have good intentions and yes, we all know where those can lead. 

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58 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

It is so much easier for a White Person to find hair products that matches their hair type than an Asian person in the USA.  This is a fact.  No, it is not because USA is racist against Asians... it simply is because Whites outnumber Asians 15 to 1 and companies want to make money.  This is true for most things - Whites are the majority, therefore, things, by default, are geared towards White people and the minorities have to figure out how to navigate a White world. 

Yes, I read your whole post.  But I'd like you to explain this part.  What do I need to do differently than a white man does in order to succeed?  What is required of me to "navigate a white world"?

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1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Yes, I read your whole post.  But I'd like you to explain this part.  What do I need to do differently than a white man does in order to succeed?  What is required of me to "navigate a white world"?

Depends on who you are. 

I'll give you an example.  If Asians want to succeed in sports, set your sights on soccer - but not as a goalie.  Baseball - sure, if you train your short legs to move very fast.  100 meter dash and the like - same thing, you have much shorter strides.  Swimming, same thing, takes you more strokes to go the same distance as the other guys.  NBA - just forget about it, there's only 1 Spud Webb in the NBA and chances are you're not going to be the next one.  Gymnastics, figure skating, table tennis.  You can do well on those.  Anything that requires you to build muscular strength, you're not gonna do well against the other guys - it is harder for you to build the muscle and the strength.  But you know, if I am your mother, I'm going to direct you to develop Academics and Arts instead of Sports.  Your chances are higher at excelling in academics and arts rather than sports against the other races.

Now, White People - they can excel in any one of those.  Blacks are even better in athleticism than Whites.  They have more aggressiveness genes or something.  I don't really know what.  They can even excel in any sport better than Whites.

The thing is... the popular sports and their rules were not made by Asians... so they favor the strengths of non-Asians and we Asians just have to figure out how to move in that orbit... if we want to compete in it.  The Chinese is a very strong contingent in the Olympics.  That's one cool thing about Socialist countries - they can socially engineer success.

Yoyo competitions on the other hand... Asians rock in those!

 

Edited by anatess2
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7 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Depends on who you are. 

I'll give you an example.  If Asians want to succeed in sports, set your sights on soccer - but not as a goalie.  Baseball - sure, if you train your short legs to move very fast.  100 meter dash and the like - same thing, you have much shorter strides.  Swimming, same thing, takes you more strokes to go the same distance as the other guys.  NBA - just forget about it, there's only 1 Spud Webb in the NBA and chances are you're not going to be the next one.  Gymnastics, figure skating, table tennis.  You can do well on those.  Anything that requires you to build muscular strength, you're not gonna do well against the other guys - it is harder for you to build the muscle and the strength.  But you know, if I am your mother, I'm going to direct you to develop Academics and Arts instead of Sports.  Your chances are higher at excelling in academics and arts rather than sports against the other races.

Now, White People - they can excel in any one of those.  Blacks are even better in athleticism than Whites.  They have more aggressiveness genes or something.  I don't really know what.  They can even excel in any sport better than Whites.

 

So, you're going to go directly to the physical which, of course, is highly race-dependent. (cough - Yao Ming).  But you were talking about other more social aspects.  That's where I don't see it.

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30 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

So, you're going to go directly to the physical which, of course, is highly race-dependent. (cough - Yao Ming).  But you were talking about other more social aspects.  That's where I don't see it.

Yao-Ming is a perfect example even... Yao Ming is tall - uncommon, of course, for an Asian - but his tallness is unsupported by muscle.  He can't grow the muscle - or he can, it just takes a whhhooolllle lot of effort.

Social aspects?  Are we limiting the discussion now?

Okay, social aspects... in the US, first we have to speak the language of the majority.  You talk with a strong accent you don't get too far.  For some reason, they think you're retarded or something because you speak funny which is really hilarious because you're Asian so they think you eat calculus for breakfast... so you can be both retarded and smart at the same time...  Unfortunately, it takes a few generations (could take up to 3) for our mouths to develop the muscular flexibility to speak the American English language.  I'm first generation - my accent is strong.  My son is 2nd generation, but he has a white dad, so he speaks fine - well, he can mimic me when he wants to make fun of his mother.  Usually, the 2nd generation still develops an accent when the language is not spoken at home.  But they have an easier time switching outside the home.  So, we basically have to shed certain cultural identities to successfully spin in the majority's orbit - like speaking the majority's language at home.  Then there's that time when your mother comes to visit and she doesn't speak a lick of the majority's language and you feel embarrassed because your friends think she's being rude for not speaking what everybody can understand.  So you tell your mother - speak English... and she responds - why?  They should speak Bisaya.  And so you say, but Ma... when in Rome, ya know... and your mother says - hah!  like they would speak Italian in Rome.. .and so you try to explain International Language but she already goes off in huff intentionally being rude making you even more embarrassed.  By the way, this is also true for Blacks.  Blacks speak their language and everybody else thinks... thug!

How we name our children... you name your child - Yun Chin Lee... forget it.  You walk in that school or send in your resume and people already have preconceived ideas of who you are before you even open your mouth to talk.  Now, David Robert Lee... you're fine.

 

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

Yao-Ming is a perfect example even... Yao Ming is tall - uncommon, of course, for an Asian - but his tallness is unsupported by muscle.  He can't grow the muscle - or he can, it just takes a whhhooolllle lot of effort.

Are we thinking of the same Yao Ming?  I wouldn't be surprised if his calves are proportionally equivalent to mine, and even side by side with Shaq, he doesn't look underdeveloped.

A lot of that is also where it's used; someone like Johnny Hoogerland is undeniably among the highest endurance athletes in the world, at least in terms of lower body.  I guarantee I can find a high school weight lifter that will make him look like Pee Wee Herman by comparison.  Just within pro cycling, comparing climbers to sprinters to mountain bikers to cyclocross pros, you'll see a wide range of muscle development levels even among the same level of athletes.

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19 hours ago, NightSG said:

Are we thinking of the same Yao Ming?  I wouldn't be surprised if his calves are proportionally equivalent to mine, and even side by side with Shaq, he doesn't look underdeveloped.

A lot of that is also where it's used; someone like Johnny Hoogerland is undeniably among the highest endurance athletes in the world, at least in terms of lower body.  I guarantee I can find a high school weight lifter that will make him look like Pee Wee Herman by comparison.  Just within pro cycling, comparing climbers to sprinters to mountain bikers to cyclocross pros, you'll see a wide range of muscle development levels even among the same level of athletes.

Yes, we're talking about the same Yao Ming who owns a Chinese restaurant in Houston.  He doesn't look underdeveloped at all - it's his career not to be.  But, having to support that height with muscle to play a physical game in the NBA costs a Chinese Man a LOT... hence, Yao fatigues faster than his Black counterparts and is easily knocked over and is more prone to injury compared to his Black counterparts.  Yi Jianlin got tossed around like tumbleweed in Milwaukee he didn't last too long.

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