Is it reasonable for my husband to ask me not to do this? Is it reasonable for me to do it anyway?

[yjacket]

5 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

The keyboard would be fine for that.  Probably a bit too limited for going on tour with a rock band.  I think the course is more aimed at youth and above.  The church is good about returns too.

If you are intent on piano for the 4 year old, get the cheapest piece of equipment you can find.  Most likely a 4 year old and an electronic keyboard will be broken in no time flat (side-bar: I never understand why parents let their toddlers play with their phones . . .hello mcfly!!!!).  But if the child doesn't break it and you play some basic music and the child is somewhat interested and can actually start to pick out a tune without instruction, then you might have a prodigy.

[ldsister]

13 minutes ago, yjacket said:

I'm glad FLEX has been good for you . . .  I don't mean to harp but I do find disconcerting the term "I'll settle for it".  As for piano lessons for a 4-year old- you are 100%, guaranteed to be completely throwing your money away.  I had piano lessons for many years growing up; a 4-year old is absolutely way to young for piano lessons, unless you want to post some cutesy youtube video and show off to all your friends about how "talented" your 4-year-old is. Which if that is the reason why says more about the parent then the actual development of the child.

The only way a 4 year old should have piano lessons is if they are some kind of child prodigy and I highly doubt that is the case here. 6-7 okay sure, 4 not a chance.

The 4 year old will be way better off developmentally, emotional, etc. by some good-ol fashioned playing, running around, etc.  Piano lessons require #1 the student to read and most 4 year olds either a) don't know how to read or b) have a hard time reading. And #2 they require discipline to practice and unless you want to stand over the child with a switch at 4, no 4 year old is going to have the discipline to practice what is required.

My kids were awesome readers @ 4 and there is no way I'd even consider lessons at 4 . . . but hey if you want to blow your money away I guarantee you there will be someone willing to take it from you.

Your husband is wise to refuse this for you child; way more important things for a 4 year-old to be doing than learning piano lessons.

Piano lessons are great, but not everyone can afford them or afford martial arts, etc.  There is a term for this. . . . it's called Keeping up with the Jones.

 

I absolutely agree that he's not going to be a piano genius, FOR SURE! I'm more interested in the long-term effects on his brain development. I've read enough studies to be convinced that music education is good for children's neurology even if they're not musically gifted.  Somehow, I must give the impression that I think my super-magical unicorn children deserve special treats and that the world should pay for them. I'm just a mom who has read the neurological research and thinks her kids would benefit from music and karate lessons and is trying to find a way to afford them. 

[Latter-Day Marriage]

17 minutes ago, ldsister said:

We have a piano, so it's more the instruction I'm wondering about. How would the instruction kit work for someone who doesn't play the piano to teach a 4-year-old to play? 

It's aimed at teaching you to play and read music assuming you are new to it all.  You would have to work out how to present it to your child.  Local music shops would have beginner piano books aimed at kids, although I'm not sure if that would be for kids that young.  I would tend to wait till they were in Sr. Primary before getting serious about piano lessons.  At this point just get them a toy piano and let them have fun with it.

Recorder and ukulele are also simple, fun, inexpensive instruments that are easy to self learn.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Latter-Day Marriage

[yjacket]

ldsister,

If I may, I sense (I might be wrong) that you have fallen into the "Good Mommy Club" trap.  All your mommy friends are doing all these "wonderful" things for their children.  They take their kids to Little League games, they buy the best toys, they send their kids to this that and the other club . . .and spend lots of money doing it in the process. And the odd-man out feels like a horrible parent because you can't do all these things for your kids. 

No child (when they are an adult) will look back and say "Gee Mom, I'm so glad you put me in Little League, I'm the man I am today b/c of that".  All those extras are sometimes nice, mostly bad and don't do a darn to actually turn out responsible adults (and in many cases actually hinder it).  Your job as a parent isn't to give your kids the best X or to put them in the piano lessons, etc. etc. etc.  Your job is to teach them to be self-sufficient, reliable, decent human beings.  Teach them Respect, Responsibility and Resourcefulness-school teaches them Reading, wRiting and aRithmetic.  All the rest . . .it's just fluff.

40 years ago kids didn't need an organized Little League structure (they still don't) . . .they just went outside and played.  They made their own rules and had their own teams. They learned how to be resourceful by making due with what they had (a paper bag with a rock on it became the "base"). Modern society has screwed up playing for children (sigh) . . .it's now longer play . . .it's a performance for adults (and is completely despicable).

[NeedleinA]

4 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

cost-benefit analysis perspective

If anyone has sensed a dislike from me regarding the Plasma idea, this fundamentally is my "personal" objection to it. The "benefit" does not justify the "cost".  
If the OP said, hey I can donate plasma and:
1. It pays $10,000-$20,000 a year
2. With that $10-20k it will fundamentally change our life for the better
3. I will be happier, less stressd and feel more complete as a mother

...then I might be on board. However, I highly doubt that $1,900 if going to solve items #2, #3. While $1,900 may feel better than $0, is $1,900 better than the benefits she is able to provide her family as full-time SAHM?

Unless she lives in some 3rd world country $1,900 is not "life-changing" it is life only altering, shifting one stress for another, or shifting the stress to the Grandma for babysitting. Just my opinion. I think the OP is thinking too small. If you are going to cross the line and enter the work force because you believe it is going to change your attitude of "I'm so tired of being broke", well $1,900 is highly unlikely to solve that mental image. 

4 hours ago, ldsister said:

Thank you! I'm surprised that people would find a mom wanting to find a way to let her kid take music lessons to be not supporting the family. Especially when the "cost to the family" is that baby and preschooler spend 90 minutes with Grandma a few times a week. People suggest "trading skills," but having been a wahm, let me tell you, that REALLY takes away from family. 

I support a mom wanting to help her kids. Business wise, I think Plasma is a poor plan and setting your goals (long-term as well) too low. 

4 hours ago, NightSG said:

buy memberships at several zoos, museums, etc. for the whole family.

Agreed - Eat generic food for an entire month, save $60 and buy the family a zoo pass for a year.

Edited September 21, 2016 by NeedleinA

[NeedleinA]

The average full-time employee is working 40hrs a week+- x 56 weeks = 2240 hrs annually.
$1,900.00 (plasma) / 2240hrs = $0.85 hr.  Her husband needs a raise of about $1hr and he has made up for her plasma efforts and helped her stay home. 

So... worry about plasma OR help her husband achieve/find/train for a job that pays $1hr more? Where are her efforts best spent?

This isn't anti-plasma, this isn't anti-mom in the work force, this is just a little "cost vs. benefit" perspective

[prisonchaplain]

I believe that three visits a week came to 6 hours per week (including the 1/2 drive each time).  For that she gets enough money to provide enrichment to her child, and a little bit of financial buffer.  One could even argue that this donating allows her to be the SAHM she wants to be.  Why does it half to be a 20-hour + job a week or nothing?  If hubby were on board, it would seem to me that OP found her perfect solution. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

Selling plasma?  Ick.  The thought of it makes me cringe!  If you have your heart set on it, ok, but surely there is a better way, like running an in home babysitting business which would let you stay home and bring in $200 a week or more?

I'm gonna retract my comment here... while I think selling plasma is a little unorthodox (and will annoy your Jehovah's Witness friends to no end), it certainly is not objectionable.  If you want to do it, then your husband should by all means step aside and let you!  

I only cringe because I am personally afraid of needles and make up lame excuses when my ward does the blood drive (e.g., "I went on my mission to Europe and am barred from giving blood").

Edited September 21, 2016 by DoctorLemon

[Guest MormonGator]

6 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

your husband should by all means let you!  

I agree. It's not his choice to make. It's her body. She's not getting an abortion.

Edited September 21, 2016 by MormonGator

[Sunday21]

there was a book called something like 'You might as well have another kid'. It was written by a researcher who looked at the research and noticed that what parents did had very little effect. What parents are, has a much bigger affect. His conclusion was that things like putting your kids in sports or piano lessons has very little effect and what affect these activities do have vanish by adulthood so if you feel that you cannot have another kid because you cannot manage another round if soccer practice, relax soccer practice has little or no effect on how your child will perform, in childhood, but if there is an effect, it vanishes by adulthood.

just for a moment, let me tell you about writing a scientific article. A subject which sadly, I know a great deal about. Firstly, the researcher needs to route around in their collection of data to find a significant result. They are not going to lie but they must publish a paper or very bad things are going to happen. Publish or perish. They may have many results that indicate that piano playing makes no difference. However it is very difficult to publish this lack of results so...they look for something that piano playing does help. So piano playing has no effect on: ability to pay attention to the teacher, okay ignore that result, has no effect on short term memory, ignore that result, and so on until the researcher finds something that piano playing DOES affect, say piano playing makes it less likely that the child will wet the bed, fine we publish that result. So piano playing fails to affect 93 out 94 things? That 94th thing is what gets published.

Now there is a significant result. But guess what?  a significant result can be very, very small. In fact so small, it is really not important at all. So in fact having dinner with Mom every night may be 60 times more important than playing the piano.

Also, there are probably quite a few studies on piano playing and bed wetting. 100 studies were done. 99 found no effect. One found a significant effect. Which one got published? You guessed it!

Next, you are looking at descriptions of studies on the web. Say 50 piano playing and child functioning studies were done. These studies measure 10 or 12 piano playing and child functioning results, thus they may be able to report some null results along with mostly significant results. 49 studies say piano playing had no effect. One says piano playing had an effect, which one is communicated through the web? The more interesting one!

even if you were to pour over scientific journals and read every study, you would still not have an accurate picture of results because those studies that failed to find results are not published. Even meta analyses that attempt to find unpublished studies don't report most of the null results because no researcher has time to send off the null results to those who ask for them.

so what is a mother to do? Pray about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NightSG]

3 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

Recorder and ukulele are also simple, fun, inexpensive instruments that are easy to self learn.

And boring.  Kids should have skills that stand out; tuba, contrabassoon or cello for the win.

2 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

I support a mom wanting to help her kids. Business wise, I think Plasma is a poor plan and setting your goals (long-term as well) too low. 

Well, she's only got one extra kidney.

1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

there was a book called something like 'You might as well have another kid'. It was written by a researcher who looked at the research and noticed that what parents did had very little effect. What parents are, has a much bigger affect. His conclusion was that things like putting your kids in sports or piano lessons has very little effect and what affect these activities do have vanish by adulthood so

I strongly disagree.  My mother lost her brother when he was 13 to drowning.  As a result, I was in swimming lessons by 6.  I'm still not that much of a swimmer, but as a result of those lessons, I was able to do two water rescues (though the Scoutmaster only knew about the much tamer of the two because we weren't supposed to be swimming when the other happened) when I was 13.  That same year, I went to National Jamboree.  Two weeks, (we drove, stopping at several historic sites along the way, and spent 3 days touring the DC area before the actual Jamboree) 1200 miles from my family, with a cobbled together troop most of whom I'd only seen at summer camp the year before.  Both of those have had and still have a significant impact on the way I think as an adult.

[Backroads]

Without reading the rest of the comments...

 

When life was slower, I loved selling plasma. I'm fast at donation for whatever reason, and I was getting paid to sit and read a book.

No shame in selling plasma, but at this time in my life I don't want to make the time to do it.

Unless you're sitting about eating bonbons while the kids are in school (in which case I would make an argument for plasma time to husband), the time just isn't worth it.

 

ETA: at least not as a full-time gig. It''s great for occasional money.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Backroads

[NightSG]

3 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Karate lessons kept me sane during some difficult times in childhood. They can also give huge benefits to your child in the form of self-confidence. It teaches you how to deal with loss, how to deal with bullies. It's something to certainly think of. 

I wouldn't say aikido saved my life, but I'm certain that when I fell off the hood of the truck that hit me a couple months ago onto the asphalt-over-brick street, it did save me from a lot worse injuries than the skinned elbow and scraped hand that I walked away from that with.

3 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Yeah, you could economize or do with out but you have been doing that for so long that life is beginning to take on a grey tinge like old dishwater. You could use a break!

This.  I've gotten to the point where I quite enjoy riding my bike all the time.  It saves me over $150/mo in gas and insurance, and I'm in better shape at 40 than I have been since my early 20s.  I've passed up a couple of opportunities to replace the dead car because I know I won't ride nearly as much if I can sleep in an extra ten minutes in the morning.  OTOH, I can't make it to out of town activities.  I haven't been to a SA dance since February.  I ended up spending $75/mo of that savings to take jiujitsu locally until I can get back to my aikido class 50 miles away.  (Yes, that took a lot more gas, but with good mileage it was really only $55/mo, between the membership cost and the gas.)  I treat myself to a nice dinner a couple times a month to take the edge off missing the dances and other activities.  The psychological impact of living on a too-tight budget long term is far more damaging to a healthy mind than selling a few pints of plasma a month is to a healthy body.

3 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

The keyboard would be fine for that.  Probably a bit too limited for going on tour with a rock band.

Nah; several of the hymns are inane and repetitive enough to prepare them to form a praise band later. 

[NightSG]

13 minutes ago, Backroads said:

Unless you're sitting about eating bonbons while the kids are in school (in which case I would make an argument for plasma time to husband), the time just isn't worth it.

Not at all; she's got family available to take them for a couple hours at a time, so it's more a matter of her choosing to spend that "mommy break" making a bit of money instead of sitting in a hot bath, taking a nap, getting her nails done or whatever.  It's not like she's ditching them all day so she can watch soap operas and talk shows; the kids likely love that grandma time, (and certainly will be thankful for it in retrospect when grandma's gone) and she gets to relax and benefit in other ways too.

[prisonchaplain]

I decided, for the sake of objectivity, to check on the short and long-term risks of plasma donation.  The short term effects appear to last only a few minutes for most (though, if there is bruising around the needle stick, that would last longer).  Long term, there does seem to be a measure of risk for lower immune strength, and scarring around the needle stick area.

See:  http://healthresearchfunding.org/dangers-donating-plasma/

[NightSG]

1 hour ago, prisonchaplain said:

Long term, there does seem to be a measure of risk for lower immune strength, and scarring around the needle stick area.

Not really a major issue unless you're a hard stick already or get the trainee who really shouldn't be handling anything sharp.  

I've actually gotten dates with nurses because of the prominent veins in my arms.  Apparently it's like porn for some of them to just sit and admire an easy stick like that.  With a little skill at darts, I'm sure most could get a good stick from across the room.  Even still, I got one in the ER once who was so bad that when she turned her back to get a fresh needle (after four misses) I grabbed the one she'd been using and hit the vein cleanly on the first try.

If you're like me, the hardest part is breaking even the good ones from going too close to the wrist.  With a light constriction band, there are two very good veins all the way up each of my forearms better than some people's wrists, (Which also means I've got about four cubits of vein available to target, so no need to stick the same spot twice in a row...will they use leg veins on request?  With the extra development in my calves, I can just work my ankles for a bit and get a couple popped up that look like serious plumbing.) and mild bruising there isn't really an issue like it is when it's close to the wrist joint and aches for hours after normal activity..

Edited September 21, 2016 by NightSG

[Sunday21]

I used to be a regular donor of blood, maybe not the same as plasma. Donating blood not selling it is a thing here. I had no ill effects. Some people feel better after donating blood.

[Guest MormonGator]

10 hours ago, NightSG said:

I wouldn't say aikido saved my life, but I'm certain that when I fell off the hood of the truck that hit me a couple months ago onto the asphalt-over-brick street, it did save me from a lot worse injuries than the skinned elbow and scraped hand that I walked away from that with.

 

 Many years ago I thanked my parents for enrolling me in karate. While it didn't make me who I am today it has helped me out in more ways than I can imagine. 

[anatess2]

Okay, I read all 4 pages of this.

This is what I got out of it:

This is not about Plasma.

This is not about Music and/or Karate lessons.

This is not even really about the husband's objections.

This is about A Carrot.

Unfortunately, we don't live in Disney where wishes are handed to us by fairies.  So we get to deal with real life that is staring down a carrot.

The Plasma donation at this point is a carrot.  It is dangling out there and you really want it because... it is a sign of hope for the relief from the mundane.  You really don't know if it's gonna make things better or not - but you think it will because... it's a carrot - you've hung your hopes up on it.

The music lessons, karate lessons, etc. etc... they're the support structure that keeps that carrot dangling out there.  It justifies the hope being hung on the carrot.

The husband's objections is the wet blanket that is putting a damper on your hopes for that carrot and you're fighting it because you are set on your hopes for that carrot.

So, we can give you all sorts of reality logic on the pros and cons of... Plasma, Music Lessons, Karate Lessons, and even Husband's Objections.  It's not gonna have any bearing on this conversation because... as someone whose hopes and dreams are hanging on that carrot, you will feed on the pros and fight the cons with every fiber of your being... because you don't want to lose that hope.  And no, a tomato cannot replace that carrot even if logically, the tomato is not more difficult to get as the carrot.  The carrot is your hope... after a while of staring down that carrot, it starts to become a gilded carrot...

Now, I've been through this many many many times in my life... when I'm in a rut and I'm staring down the carrot that I hung my hopes on to take me out of this rut.  In my case, it usually starts out with me in a rut and then I think - If only.... and bam, I see a carrot.  My hope and desire is so strong that the carrot has gotten to be a gilded carrot when I look at it - shiny and lovely and oooohhh... if I can just have that carrot!  Then guess what... I finally get the carrot and I realized... well, that didn't actually do much for me.  I was still in the same rut and I was feeling as drained and tired and gray as I did.

And the reason for that is... It's really not about the carrot.  It is more like trying to run away from the rut instead of doing the hard job of facing it head-on and cleaning out the rut.

So... my advice to you... and this is only worth 2 cents even with my vast experience in carrots:

1.)  Stop for a minute and let the other rabbits chase after the carrot while you get out of the track and go home.  No, I'm not saying forget about plasma donations.  I'm saying - just put that aside for now and go back to the basics to contemplate on your life right now instead of your life after the plasma.

2.)  Sing the song Count Your Many Blessings... think about all the good stuff.  Name them one by one.  Make a list if you have to.

3.)  When you wake up the next morning, get that list and pray to God thanking Him for everything on that list - name them one by one by one in that prayer.

4.)  The minute your husband comes into view - tell him about the good stuff in your lives together.  Tell him how much you love those things, how much you love that you both were able to provide those things.

5.)  Tell your 4-year-old to go bang on the piano.  Just have at it... even if he'll cause a ruckus.  Marvel at this first composition.  Pick out the interesting sounds amid the noise and tell your kid about those interesting sounds.  If he has played for 5 minutes and you haven't picked out interesting sounds, you haven't listened close enough.

6.)  Tell your other kids (if they're old enough) to play wrestle, run 5 kilometers around the neighborhood, tell them to go outside and make up their own game out of anything, ask them to bring you home a flower.  Pick out the interesting stuff they come up with and tell them about those interesting stuff.  If they managed to find a flower, put that flower in your ear and look in the mirror/take a picture/put it in a book... anything to remind you of it.

The objective here is to put your life in its proper perspective so that the plasma gets knocked down from its status of Carrot.  The Music Lessons and Karate Lessons gets put in its proper perspective instead of being the support structure for a Carrot.  This will make it so that you can think about these things in a more objective manner.

Now, after you've tried to accomplish these things everyday for... I say... 2 weeks... and you are still in the doldrums... you might need to see your doctor about some medical/hormonal/fatigue/depression/etc issue... if you're not in the doldrums as you were before and you still want to donate plasma, go talk to your husband and tell him - I want to see what will happen if I donate plasma, will you okay just one visit to try it out?  If he says yes - go go go before he changes his mind.  If he says no - come back here and we'll give you advice on other ways you can try to make 50 bucks...

Edited September 21, 2016 by anatess2

[NightSG]

Welcome to overcomplicated land.

You know where he sleeps.  Just sell one of his kidneys on the black market, get the kids started in their lessons, and then offer to sell some plasma for a while to buy him another kidney.

FWIW, kidneys go for 10-15 times as much here as in India, so as long as he's not racist, you can set aside plenty for the replacement right away and still have enough left for years of lessons.

Edited September 21, 2016 by NightSG

[Guest MormonGator]

12 minutes ago, NightSG said:

 Just sell one of his kidneys on the black market, 

And put him in a tub of ice cubes! With lipstick on the mirror! 

[anatess2]

5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

And put him in a tub of ice cubes! With lipstick on the mirror! 

In New Orleans!

[ldsister]

Thanks for all your insights. The one thing I'm confused about is the carrot conversation. It was my understanding that carrots are things we want, so I'm not sure how donating plasma is a carrot. Wouldn't it be the hook one would use to grab the carrot? Thinking that donating plasma will change my life would be ridiculous to the point of delusion. I just ran the numbers on karate lessons and said, "Oh. I know how to make that happen."

If there are other ways to make fifty bucks that a) require NO up front investment b) require NO commitment c) require NO additional training d) take only 4.5 hours per week and e) are entirely on my own schedule, I would love to hear them. Please remember, I am NOT looking for a career. I AM A MOTHER. I'm looking for an immediate and temporary way to make a couple extra hundred bucks. 

Either way, thanks for the thoughts and input. 

Edited September 21, 2016 by ldsister

[ldsister]

Re: the frugal living ideas--thanks for the insights. We already do everything listed thus far, but if you have any other effective ideas, I'm always open to new methods of frugality. 

[NightSG]

34 minutes ago, ldsister said:

I'm always open to new methods of frugality. 

Take up heavy smoking; then you can quit and save $6-8/day.