How to find patience when feeling the gospel isn't enough

[askandanswer]

I completely agree with and endorse what has been said about the finding and using the right combination of professional counselling and medication. But don't forget the power of music, which can be quite powerful. I recommend assembling a playlist of carefully chosen, uplifting, perhaps even spiritual music. Or maybe just put Spotify or Pandora on your phone and add the Mormon Tabernacle choir channel, or even just download the hymns from the church website. When the depression comes, just turn to your music. It takes almost no effort at all and it can be listened to at almost any time. In the mean time, consider this:

Count Your Blessings

31243, Hymns, Count Your Blessings, no. 241

1. When upon life's billows you are tempest-tossed,
When you are discouraged, thinking all is lost,
Count your many blessings; name them one by one,
And it will surprise you what the Lord has done.

[Chorus]
Count your blessings;
Name them one by one.
Count your blessings;
See what God hath done.
Count your blessings;
Name them one by one.
Count your many blessings;
See what God hath done.

2. Are you ever burdened with a load of care?
Does the cross seem heavy you are called to bear?
Count your many blessings; ev'ry doubt will fly,
And you will be singing as the days go by.

3. When you look at others with their lands and gold,
Think that Christ has promised you his wealth untold.
Count your many blessings; money cannot buy
Your reward in heaven nor your home on high.

4. So amid the conflict, whether great or small,
Do not be discouraged; God is over all.
Count your many blessings; angels will attend,
Help and comfort give you to your journey's end.

 

Best of luck with your depression. Sometimes all you can do is just hang in there and endure, but it almost always passes. 

[Guest]

14 hours ago, ALostSoul said:

It's not so much as what I am comfortable with as much as what is possible/reasonable.

Forget about possible or reasonable.  Don't think "can I?" Think "How can I?"

14 hours ago, ALostSoul said:

I honestly have no idea on how to reach that.

First, you've got to define what happiness means to you.  Have you ever written out what your idea of the "perfect day" would be?  It's a wonderful exercise.  Write it out for

1. Your current circumstances.
2. What you hope your future circumstances would be.  If you don't know, find someone in your life or in history that you'd like to emulate.  Learn enough about them to get THEIR perfect day.
3. Near the end of your very long life.  An idea would be: What would you like your eulogy or obituary to say if you had several paragraphs?

Go over those images and descriptions in your mind again and again until it is like you've already experienced it in reality.  Make it so real, you can say what color the drapes are and what smell the carpet has.  Make it so real that it seems real to you.

14 hours ago, ALostSoul said:

Everything I listed where just a few ideas, but so far I haven't received any answer as too what I should actually do.

Then try them.  If you don't know from the Lord, try SOMETHING on your own.  If it is a failure, observe, learn, adapt.  Ask,"What went wrong?"  Sometimes it wasn't the decision itself, but the execution.  Sometimes it is the decision itself.  But you won't know until you try and see the failure first hand.

Don't believe that you're not going to make mistakes.  Your adventures in dating may have ended in failure.  But that doesn't mean you're never supposed to date again.  It means you need to figure out what went wrong and fix it.  Then try again. And again. And again.  Much of life is trial and error.  But somehow we get this impression that we are supposed to get everything right the first time.  Believe it or not, that's the Devil talking.

What kind of arrogance would it take to expect to get everything right the first time?

You may think you already know that.  But look at what you said about dating.  You tried it and failed miserably.  So you don't want to try again.  I'm not saying that you should take pleasure in failure.  No one would.  But Nephi failed twice in getting the plates of brass.  Then the third time he had a credible claim to guidance by the Spirit because he had already tried with mortal means.  And even after failure he continued to try again.  Then that third time was actually the most daring and difficult route.

Are you prepared to do the same?  If not, you will not find success.

I'm not a doctor, nor a professional.  I'm just a person who has depression myself.  So, I'll give you my non-professional opinion.  I don't think you suffer from a chemical imbalance.  I believe you're plagued by negative thoughts so much that they have made persistent patterns in your brain.  You've got to learn how to change those patterns.  Read books on self improvement.  Read uplifting books.  Watch underdog movies (like Rocky or the Lord of the Rings).

You said the gospel isn't enough.  Well, that depends on what you include in the gospel.  The Lord has told us to seek out of the best books words of wisdom and learning.  Find the best books for your situation.  Find the best people to talk to about your situation.  LEARN to become a better you.

[zil]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

What would you like your eulogy or obituary to say if you had several paragraphs?

Ooo, this sounds fun, I'll start:

Zil passed on to that great library in the sky on Tuesday, 22 February 2017.  She had several paragraphs in this life, and those who loved her know she's now collecting even more.  Indeed, paragraphs were among her most prized possessions.  Some forum members even commented that she'd make a new paragraph without valid, grammatical reason.

Some theorized she liked paragraphs better than people.

"I think she just liked hitting that enter key," @MormonGator reported.

Her brother (the only one to know her laptop password) reports that "several" may be an inadequate description of all the paragraphs Zil had stored there.

Rather than a viewing of Zil, there will be an online posting of some of her better paragraphs as soon as ZilsParagraphs.com is set up.  In lieu of flowers, please donate a handwritten paragraph to your favorite charity case.

Edited February 23, 2017 by zil

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, zil said:

Some theorized she liked paragraphs better than people.

By this you mean that you like paragraphs better than you like people.  

OR

You could mean that you like paragraphs better than people like paragraphs.  This would of course mean that you're not a person.  So, are you a robot?  Are you an alien (from outer space) -- in not, then, child... you've got a condition (thank you, Avengers).

[zil]

9 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

By this you mean that you like paragraphs better than you like people.  

OR

You could mean that you like paragraphs better than people like paragraphs.  This would of course mean that you're not a person.  So, are you a robot?  Are you an alien (from outer space) -- in not, then, child... you've got a condition (thank you, Avengers).

Dear Human,

Unfortunately, Zil passed away yesterday and cannot respond to your inquiry.

Only her love of paragraphs survives.

Here's an extra one, in her honor.

Sympathies,

Automated Zil-paragraph Emulation Device (AZED)

[Guest]

My obituary:

Carborendum finally gave up his efforts at immortality and realized that he'd done enough damage to this earth.  He was most known for teasing his children and wife (who preceeded him in death) with dad jokes.  True, he was an accomplished engineer, musician, author, theologian, and philosopher.  But his greatest joys were spending time with his children and grandchildren.  And while they will miss him, the grandchildren are now looking forward to being taunted by their own fathers' dad jokes.

My perfect day:

I will have provided a solution to yet another major problem at work, thus pleasing both the client and my boss.  Fridays are half days for me.  So, I have the afternoon to spend with my children.  

I'll get home and kiss my wife.  She's excited to tell me about the latest thing she's doing.  I'll tell her how blessed I am to be married to her.

I'll get the erector set out and play with my younger children.  Later I'll read our latest book to them (we read books together) as I insert the appropriate dad jokes at will.  The older children come outside to work with me in the shed on the latest project for a couple hours.

As I prepare for my hot date with the most beautiful and sexiest woman in the world (my wife) I'll shower from the work I just did in the shed and... I'll even... shave...  Then don't forget the cinnamon tic tac because my wife hates mint.  We'll head off to dinner at Tokyo One (a local restaurant that is our indulgence once or twice a year).  Then we'll head off to the miniature golf place across the street.  They also have go-carts and a climbing wall and other stuff.

We'll discuss how beautiful she is, the children, how dedicated she is, current events, how amazing she is, gospel doctrine, how sexy she looks in that outfit, our future, what I'd like to do with her when we get home...

...

...

Then we'd fall asleep.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Guest

[anatess2]

17 hours ago, ALostSoul said:

 

 

Yeah I do have depression. I am trying a new medication that I am not convinced is working. The thing is though, once I do find medication that will help and even if I do eventually get better, I still believe I will be empty. I think there is more to it than just the chemical imbalances. I think it also has to do with my own situation and perhaps my own stubbornness. I understand life is not going to be a picnic, but I don't really know how to get to a point where I can both dedicate myself to better the lives of others and fulfill my own emotional and educational goals. But I feel I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. At least as far as how I should plan my future.

 

Okay.  I have psychological challenges as well.

You can't solve a problem when you don't know what it is you want.  So, I'm just some random gal on the internet who knows nothing about you except for the words on your posts.  So, take what I say with that in mind because I've read your posts but you didn't say what would make you happy.  You just mentioned you're not happy.  You said something about maybe if you move to a bigger city... but then you follow it up with you can't.

Reading the words on your posts - there are lots of negatives.  Lots of I can't.  I'm limited.  I don't think it's going to work... lots and lots of negatives.  You need to take the focus OUT of those can'ts and refocus to CANs.  What CAN you do?  You need to start making positive goals.  Even if they are small goals.  Like - "I love lettuce.  I'm going to grow my own lettuce".  Or something like that.

But beyond simple goals, in my experience, the more I focus on myself, the harder it is to find happiness.  I find that the more I focus outside of myself, the better I feel about myself.  Yes, it sounds contradictory but it is true.  So, my suggestion is to not focus so much on your happiness or unhappiness.  Rather, focus more on what you can do to make somebody else happy.  Find a goal that shifts your focus outside of yourself.  Like making a goal to do random acts of kindness.

And running/exercise/sport.  Negative energy is still energy and it needs to be expended.  Get all that negative energy out by setting physical goals - "I'm going to run 1 mile today".

The more goals you accomplish, the more you forget the words You Can't.  Turn that frown upside-down and smile your frown away.

Edited February 23, 2017 by anatess2

[yjacket]

17 hours ago, ALostSoul said:

I think it honestly has something to do with this medication. I have only been taking it for a month and it is actually for bipolar disorder. The psychiatrist thought there was a chance that I could have a slight case of bipolar based on the waves of depression I am feeling. 

Dude.  Get off the medication.  Your psychiatrist is using you as a guinea pig. Look there is absolutely no such thing as a "chemical imbalance".  It has never been measured, studied, etc.  When someone (a psychiatrist, especially) says you have a "chemical imbalance" they are full of crap.

I'm an engineer and a scientist and if there was such a thing as a "chemical imbalance" it would be measured.  You go to the doctor and you have high blood pressure.  That is measured, you have high cholesterol-that is measured. We have measurements for all sorts of biological things, cancer (check), diabetes (check), blood issues (check).

If at some point science gets to the point that a psychiatrist can point to and say . ..see look your meta-thamulas is at 1.5 and the average is .5, you're meta-thamulas is obviously elevated-take this medicine to regulate your meta-thamulas.  Then, I'd say sure you have something wrong.  

Until then, it is absolute 100% horse-doogie.  

Right now, quite frankly your psychiatrist doesn't know what is wrong, and he never will know what is wrong-therefore in an attempt to look smart and act like he knows what he is doing (when he really doesn't and if he was honest he would admit so . . .but b/c insurance-or the state/federal gov.-do pay for it, he can take you for a ride b/c if he didn't he'd be out of a job) he prescribes, xyz medicine.  2 months later . . .he asks-did that work? It doesn't so then he prescribes abc, 2 months later . . . did that work?  All the while you are his guinea pig.  And in addition, a new science article came out (that does actually have some science in it)-that describes how taking these psycotic drugs can actually do more harm than good.  I can't recall the article but basically taking these drugs messes with how your body accepts dopamine-causing big problems.

As to how to fix the problem. Certain things help (don't know if it will make a difference).  But you have to make sure you are getting enough sleep, make sure you are getting sunlight, make sure you are eating properly and getting the right vitamins.  

Find a purpose, something you enjoy.  Do you have a job?  Finding a reason to get up in the morning is important.  Sidenote: I'm convinced our welfare state contributes a lot to some of these issues-when you have a choice between actually starving and working . .. you'll work and work is one of the things that gives purpose in this life.  Just remember, you are responsible for you own life and you get decide how you live it. When you own your own problems, you figure out a way to make that problem much less of a problem.

Edited February 23, 2017 by yjacket

[anatess2]

14 minutes ago, yjacket said:

Dude.  Get off the medication.  Your psychiatrist is using you as a guinea pig. Look there is absolutely no such thing as a "chemical imbalance".  It has never been measured, studied, etc.  When someone (a psychiatrist, especially) says you have a "chemical imbalance" they are full of crap.

I'm an engineer and a scientist and if there was such a thing as a "chemical imbalance" it would be measured.  You go to the doctor and you have high blood pressure.  That is measured, you have high cholesterol-that is measured. We have measurements for all sorts of biological things, cancer (check), diabetes (check), blood issues (check).

If at some point science gets to the point that a psychiatrist can point to and say . ..see look your meta-thamulas is at 1.5 and the average is .5, you're meta-thamulas is obviously elevated-take this medicine to regulate your meta-thamulas.  Then, I'd say sure you have something wrong.  

Until then, it is absolute 100% horse-doogie.  

Right now, quite frankly your psychiatrist doesn't know what is wrong, and he never will know what is wrong-therefore in an attempt to look smart and act like he knows what he is doing (when he really doesn't and if he was honest he would admit so . . .but b/c insurance-or the state/federal gov.-do pay for it, he can take you for a ride b/c if he didn't he'd be out of a job) he prescribes, xyz medicine.  2 months later . . .he asks-did that work? It doesn't so then he prescribes abc, 2 months later . . . did that work?  All the while you are his guinea pig.  And in addition, a new science article came out (that does actually have some science in it)-that describes how taking these psycotic drugs can actually do more harm than good.  I can't recall the article but basically taking these drugs messes with how your body accepts dopamine-causing big problems.

As to how to fix the problem. Certain things help (don't know if it will make a difference).  But you have to make sure you are getting enough sleep, make sure you are getting sunlight, make sure you are eating properly and getting the right vitamins.  

Find a purpose, something you enjoy.  Do you have a job?  Finding a reason to get up in the morning is important.  Sidenote: I'm convinced our welfare state contributes a lot to some of these issues-when you have a choice between actually starving and working . .. you'll work and work is one of the things that gives purpose in this life.  Just remember, you are responsible for you own life and you get decide how you live it. When you own your own problems, you figure out a way to make that problem much less of a problem.

Okay, I just want to put this out here because yjacket is not correct on this one.

Just because you can't measure an imbalance doesn't mean there isn't one.

But yes, yjacket is correct - we don't really know enough about mental health to know how exactly to solve it through targeted medication.  Mental health has not reached a point where targeted medication is as target-accurate as aspirin.  Therefore, more often than not, medication either is ineffective in solving the target condition or produces negative results in non-targeted conditions.

So, this is my position on medication - strengthening your brain to cope with the imbalance holistically is always the best approach.  When that fails, then targeted medication may be applied simply to help you cope.  If the negative impact of medication is worse than the problem to begin with, it is better to quit the medication and go back to strengthening your brain to cope with the known issue rather than let the medication cope with the known issue and then try to get your brain to cope with the unknown issue that crops up.

Edited February 23, 2017 by anatess2

[yjacket]

If you need more proof just read:

https://bbrfoundation.org/discoveries/moving-beyond-‘chemical-imbalance’-theory-of-depression

The long and short of the article (written in 2012) is basically an admission "We don't have a freaking clue as to what we are doing".

[yjacket]

6 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Just because you can't measure an imbalance doesn't mean there isn't one.

That is true, but we as a society need to stop giving crap advice when we don't have a clue about it.  There is absolutely 0 evidence for a "chemical imbalance", could it be-sure it could be, but I'd like to see a heck of a lot more evidence before we as a society start spouting off-you have depression! oh my go to the pysc. doctor, he'll tell you you have a "chemical imbalance", he'll give you pills and he'll make it all better!   The article above spells out that major depression drugs are ineffective for 50% of those who suffer with depression.  50%!  Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, a placebo would do better than that! 

What is this? Believe in fairy-tale magic?  I'd much rather put my faith in God rather than in some quack (who if they were honest would admit they don't have a clue).

Edited February 23, 2017 by yjacket

[anatess2]

30 minutes ago, yjacket said:

That is true, but we as a society need to stop giving crap advice when we don't have a clue about it.  There is absolutely 0 evidence for a "chemical imbalance", could it be-sure it could be, but I'd like to see a heck of a lot more evidence before we as a society start spouting off-you have depression! oh my go to the pysc. doctor, he'll tell you you have a "chemical imbalance", he'll give you pills and he'll make it all better!    

What is this? Believe in fairy-tale magic?  I'd much rather put my faith in God rather than in some quack (who if they were honest would admit they don't have a clue).

 

It is completely different to say - we don't know as it is to say it doesn't exist.

Now, if you can live in my brain for a while you will know there is something wrong there.  And because it is a chemical in a person's physiology that triggers anger, you know something is wrong with the process of getting that chemical produced.  Hence, chemical imbalance.  Exactly what combination of chemicals it is that triggers anger nobody has figured out yet.  Just like endorphins is supposed make you happy yet you can't take endorphin pills to fight unhappiness. 

Unless, of course you want to insist that my intelligence (spirit) is just so terrible that I would desire to abuse my husband because he made me mad and you don't believe that I actually don't want to do that.  Then that would be a different discussion.

But yes, the legacy of Dianetics (and Scientology) is their contribution to the concept that the Brain - that produces these chemicals - is programmable.   So, as the brain produced the chemical that triggered my anger, I can train my brain to adjust to the imbalance.  That's what I explained earlier as Coping Mechanisms.  And no, it's not as simple as saying "Have faith in God".  Programming your brain to deal with a specific problem is an active action.  Yes, when somebody breaks their bone, you can say "Have faith in God" that he will help you heal.  But you still have to set that bone. 

But then, just like you can only deal with pain so much before your brain just shuts down, there might come a time when it is better to take the risky targeted medication to give some relief and deal with its consequences instead of ending up dead.

Basically, what I'm saying is - yes, it is bad to just sweep the problem into the realm of depression and take a pill.  It is just as bad to sweep the problem as it doesn't exist and you just need more faith in God.

Edited February 23, 2017 by anatess2

[yjacket]

4 hours ago, anatess2 said:

 

It is completely different to say - we don't know as it is to say it doesn't exist.

Now, if you can live in my brain for a while you will know there is something wrong there.  And because it is a chemical in a person's physiology that triggers anger, you know something is wrong with the process of getting that chemical produced.  Hence, chemical imbalance.  Exactly what combination of chemicals it is that triggers anger nobody has figured out yet. 

Completely illogical. You believe it is completely chemical that triggers anger? That is totally false.  The emotion of anger has physiological responses to it-the result of which probably includes chemical responses.  But it's not chemicals that cause the anger.  If that is the case then we can say, welp I can't help my anger b/c it's "chemical", totally false.   

I know anatess you suffer from explosive anger-but I guarantee you it's not a chemical thing you body produces that then causes your body to have explosive anger. Quite frankly, that's just an excuse for lack of self-control (and no I'm not picking on you, or being a jerk, etc. I'm just telling you what it is-but I do not mean to dog you). 

No, anger arises out of situations that we are placed in. If one is sitting in the Temple meditating I doubt there will be anger, yet in 15 minutes outside the temple if someone hits you unprovoked and crashes your car you will most likely feel anger.  Was there a "chemical imbalance" that just magically appeared 15 min. later-no not at all.

Again, no one has demonstrated or proved or shown scientific evidence of a "chemical imbalance".  It is a totally made-up construct by men with three-letters after their name to explain something they don't have a clue about.  If you want to suppose that there is a "chemical imbalance", you are free to do so, but again it is a completely unsubstantiated claim. It's similar to boys who believe their spirit really is female.  It's totally made-up and only provable in their own heads as a way to justify or make sense of what they feel.

Claiming it is a "chemical imbalance", does one thing and one thing only-it shifts the responsibility. By claiming I have a "chemical imbalance" I get a free pass, I don't have to be accountable for the way I feel, my actions, etc. b/c "I can't help it".  

When time after time it has been shown and proven that individuals can be happy in the most dire circumstances, i.e. we humans have the ability to control how we feel, how we think.  That is the distinguishing feature between men and beast . . . we can control, harness, change, and channel our emotions and our thoughts.

Edited February 23, 2017 by yjacket

[Jane_Doe]

Everyone: let's try to stay focused on helping @ALostSoul

[Guest MormonGator]

@ALostSoul

Someone asked me once if I was allowing myself to be happy. I was floored, I thought it was such an obvious question. I began to think about it afterwards though-instead of focusing on why I'm not happy, maybe I should focus on what makes me happy. To some degree happiness is also a choice. After all, there are people who have much less than you or I and are still happy. I've seen people with so much materially complain about everything, and I've seen people who live in tough circumstances smile and enjoy life. 

Edited February 23, 2017 by MormonGator

[Guest]

Public service announcement: There are people here, and everywhere, who hold ignorant prejudice against anyone with mental illness and anyone who tries to help them. Consider the source when you hear the opinions of these people. 

[Just_A_Guy]

12 hours ago, yjacket said:

If you need more proof just read:

https://bbrfoundation.org/discoveries/moving-beyond-‘chemical-imbalance’-theory-of-depression

The long and short of the article (written in 2012) is basically an admission "We don't have a freaking clue as to what we are doing".

That article actually bolsters the idea that the presence or absence of certain chemicals in the brain is linked to mood and depression (and a cat's cradle of other mental disorders).  And, I've seen schizophrenics in court with and without their meds.  The science of brain chemistry is very much in its infancy; but we are not entirely inept.

The danger, is in assuming that we can always determine which chemicals are out of whack and then treat the imbalance with a particular pill.  There will indeed be a good deal of experimentation in an individual's mental health treatment.  That's not necessarily a bad thing--I understand individualized cancer treatment regimens also entail a lot of trial and error--but a patient will want to be vigilant, pay close attention to their symptoms, and not fall into the trap of assuming that the current pill will work (and/or no other treatment will work better) just because a guy in a lab coat recommended it.

[askandanswer]

15 hours ago, zil said:

Zil passed on to that great library in the sky on Tuesday, 22 February 2017. 

 

This is excessively optimistic. I’ve read your posts. You live in Utah and you have connections with Texas. So, I think you need to start preparing yourself for that miserable collection of trashy romance novellas, with the missing covers, and the torn out back pages, and that collection of unstructured scribblings by Russian pseudo intellects that constitutes the “library” in that place down below.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, askandanswer said:

This is excessively optimistic. I’ve read your posts. You live in Utah and you have connections with Texas. So, I think you need to start preparing yourself for that miserable collection of trashy romance novellas, with the missing covers, and the torn out back pages, and that collection of unstructured scribblings by Russian pseudo intellects that constitutes the “library” in that place down below.

[zil]

10 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

...but a patient will want to be vigilant, pay close attention to their symptoms, and not fall into the trap of assuming that the current pill will work (and/or no other treatment will work better) just because a guy in a lab coat recommended it.

The patient will need help with this because some of those drugs will make the patient think they're just fine while those who spend lots of time with them throughout the day will recognize that things are not fine.

[anatess2]

I apologize if this is a threadjack but I believe this is important to discuss in light of the OP.

 

20 hours ago, yjacket said:

Completely illogical. You believe it is completely chemical that triggers anger? That is totally false.  The emotion of anger has physiological responses to it-the result of which probably includes chemical responses.  But it's not chemicals that cause the anger.  If that is the case then we can say, welp I can't help my anger b/c it's "chemical", totally false.   

I know anatess you suffer from explosive anger-but I guarantee you it's not a chemical thing you body produces that then causes your body to have explosive anger. Quite frankly, that's just an excuse for lack of self-control (and no I'm not picking on you, or being a jerk, etc. I'm just telling you what it is-but I do not mean to dog you). 

No, anger arises out of situations that we are placed in. If one is sitting in the Temple meditating I doubt there will be anger, yet in 15 minutes outside the temple if someone hits you unprovoked and crashes your car you will most likely feel anger.  Was there a "chemical imbalance" that just magically appeared 15 min. later-no not at all.

Again, no one has demonstrated or proved or shown scientific evidence of a "chemical imbalance".  It is a totally made-up construct by men with three-letters after their name to explain something they don't have a clue about.  If you want to suppose that there is a "chemical imbalance", you are free to do so, but again it is a completely unsubstantiated claim. It's similar to boys who believe their spirit really is female.  It's totally made-up and only provable in their own heads as a way to justify or make sense of what they feel.

Claiming it is a "chemical imbalance", does one thing and one thing only-it shifts the responsibility. By claiming I have a "chemical imbalance" I get a free pass, I don't have to be accountable for the way I feel, my actions, etc. b/c "I can't help it".  

When time after time it has been shown and proven that individuals can be happy in the most dire circumstances, i.e. we humans have the ability to control how we feel, how we think.  That is the distinguishing feature between men and beast . . . we can control, harness, change, and channel our emotions and our thoughts.

Yjacket, let me try to explain this to you.  Anger, like any other emotion, is a mortal body's mechanism in reaction to certain stimuli.  It can either be instinctive or deliberate.  For this discussion, the instinctive response is the relevant response.  The deliberate response is not relevant.

To make the discussion easier I'm going to separate my Intelligence (Spirit) from my mortal brain.  So when I use the word "I" that means I'm referring to my Intelligence whereas when I say "my brain" I'm referring to the mortal brain that is the central processing unit of the entire physiology.  They are separate - one is mortal, the other eternal.

A normal person's Intelligence perceives the external stimuli as necessitating an anger response therefore, the Intelligence directs the brain to release the necessary chemicals that manifests into an anger expression.  This is deliberate anger.  I assume that Jesus' anger at the money changers is a deliberate anger expression and not an instinctive response.  Sometimes, the brain instinctively goes through this process without direction from the Intelligence, like in the case of fight-or-flight situations.  Adrenaline gets elevated, blood flow is increased, temperature rises, etc.  In either case, deliberate or instinctive, the brain produces energy in the body and the Intelligence then directs that energy towards an anger expression - like that energy Jesus expended to overturn tables. 

It takes energy to express anger.  The amount of energy produced is normally proportional to the seriousness of the stimuli.

So, let's see if you can relate to this situation - think of a time you got upset at... say at your wife.  Did you deliberately get upset or did you instinctively get upset?  If you instinctively got upset - did you notice the build-up of energy... racing heartbeat, elevated temperature, etc?  I would expect that your religious training would have allowed you to properly direct that energy to a positive expression before you instinctively did something stupid, right?  Now think what would happen if you see somebody trying to kill your kid... more than likely you're going to instinctively produce a whole lot more energy than the energy you produced when you got upset at your wife, right?  Your heartbeat races, your temperature elevates, you get increased adrenaline, blood flows fast through your veins towards your extremities and through your brain that your vision dims and you see through a haze of red.  The racing heartbeat, increased blood flow, etc. etc. are all a byproduct of chemical reactions produced by the brain.  What chemical it exactly is that produces the energy, nobody knows.  A lot of energy gets produced so fast giving you the ability to kill that murderer.  It is so strong so fast that you'll have to struggle for your Intelligence to catch up, right?  I mean, sure, your religious training probably gave you the self-control to actually think and slow down this process some before you end up killing that murderer, but I would imagine that it is a difficult thing to do even for a normal person like you seeing your kid about to die in his hands, right?   Now, think about getting all that energy so hot so fast that is difficult to control... when you simply got upset at your wife.  That's the chemical imbalance.  It is not rational.  It is not predictable.  So, I have to just sigh when you say I just lack self-control.  Sometimes the energy is a volcano eruption when it's just a small stimulus like a papercut, sometimes there's no energy at all to even express frustration even when a ginormous stimulus is present like somebody jipped us out of $12,000 and so my husband wonders if I even care at all.  And sometimes, it's just right and everything is peachy.  Having too little or no energy and having energy just right is not a problem.  The problem happens when the energy is too much too fast because it is difficult to control especially when my Intelligence is not prepared for it.  It took me years and years of self-mastery to know when to be prepared for it and even then sometimes it happens that there's too much energy too fast that I already instinctively threw a plate before my Intelligence catches up to it to stop the next plate.  Sometimes it too much too fast that my Intelligence can't stop it or slow it down until the throbbing in my brain diminishes and my vision clears - this is when I sometimes get an out-of-body experience where I'm floating above my body trying to gain my attention.  It's like my body is possessed by someone else!  I couldn't remember the last time this happened though.  It was so long ago.  I do remember posting on lds.net when it happened but I can't find it anymore because I lost my old avatar when we switched to a new software.

About the temple - I haven't yet experienced encountering an anger stimulus in the Temple.

And to jump to the conclusion that just because somebody has IED that she gets a free pass... nobody gets a free pass.  We are all going through this journey with the same Commandments with the same Covenants with the same Standard of Perfection through Christ.  I have IED, some people have no arms and no legs, some have cerebral palsy, some are alcoholics, some are just plain jerks.  Doesn't matter.  The Covenants and Standard of Perfection are the exact same.

So that's why I thought this important for the OP - I believe you can TRAIN yourself to overcome depression.  Because you still have to go through the journey towards Christ.  Depression is actually harder than my situation because depression doesn't have noticeable triggers.. it's a mood.  Anger is a flash, the energy is expended, and then it's gone.  Depression lingers for days and days and days and months and months and you have no clue why you're sad.  But I still believe you can train yourself to overcome depression.  I don't know how except for training yourself to focus outside of yourself.  I believe this requires self-mastery.  This is how I'm coping with my situation without medication.  I went through self-mastery.  I learned certain coping mechanisms like emotional detachment, etc.  You'll have to go through the same as well.  I went through a psychologist and a psychiatrist and they prescribed me some medication that would produce the same effect as emotional detachment but I decided I'd rather deal with the problem I know than the problem I don't know that results from the medication.  You will need to approach this holistically - think of the health of the whole body - food intake, exercise, sleep, etc., in addition to psychological training.

In any case... I'm just some random person on the internet.  What do I know.

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by anatess2

[Jane_Doe]

Another example of stimuli effecting a person--

When I met my now MIL, she was a stiff woman.  Not unkind... just zero warm and fuzzies.  When she said she wanted to see her granddaughter, *see* was the key word: she didn't want to play, to interact, or anything like that.  Just *see*.  My husband told me that this is "just how his mom is", and she's gotten more and more that way though the years.

Well, last fall we found out my MIL had a brain tumor.  Not cancerous (thank God!) but huge (the size of a small mellon).  This tumor had been growing in her brain for ~30 years, squishing her brain matter, specifically the parts involved with creativity and emotional connection.  Since having the tumor removed, MIL is a COMPLETELY different person- like watching her change from being in black-and-white to bright technicolor!   She loves to come visit, play cars with granddaughter, invites us to go to the rodeo, and wants to be so involved.

Yes, scientific understanding of how the brain works is in it's infancy.  We also can change our brains through training (counseling/outlooks/etc) and prayer.  But to say that the physical brain plays zero role in how a person behaves is (in my experience) completely untrue.  

[Sunday21]

I took antidepressants during a tough time. I found them really helpful. I am not on them now. I could really tell when the antidepressants kicked in! I went from depressed and timid to thriving and sassy in the space of 24 hours. Worked great!