Prophecy In The Last Days

[prisonchaplain]

In Joel 2:28-29, we are told that the Spirit of God would be poured out in the last days, and that there would be dreams, and visions, and prophecies. In fact, we are told that men and women will prophecy.

My sense is that there will be numerous prophets in the last days. Thoughts?

[Dr T]

I would be interested in what the term "prophets" means.

[CrimsonKairos]

All I know is that any church that isn't led by a prophet is a "non-prophet organization," bwahahahahaha.

[prisonchaplain]

I would be interested in what the term "prophets" means.

The short answer is: those who prophesy.

Although prophesy can mean to proclaim, in the sense Joel uses, it seems to mean more than simply preaching--since dreams and visions are also mentioned. So, to prophesy would mean speaking forth a word from God, under a direct anointing.

Unlike a calling or church office, such a prophetic gift might be exercised occasionally, rather than say, three times a week. :)

[Dr T]

All I know is that any church that isn't led by a prophet is a "non-prophet organization," bwahahahahaha.

Hahahahaha; good one CK. :)

===

I could see many false prophets in the last days.

[pam]

All I know is that any church that isn't led by a prophet is a "non-prophet organization," bwahahahahaha.

That was bad CK but good.

[boyando]

In Joel 2:28-29, we are told that the Spirit of God would be poured out in the last days, and that there would be dreams, and visions, and prophecies. In fact, we are told that men and women will prophecy.

My sense is that there will be numerous prophets in the last days. Thoughts?

I know many people, men and women, who have had personal prophecies. I do know that these sacred and should not be held out for ridicule.

I, my self have had these, personal revelations and do not want them to be belittled as something of naught. Not because it would weaken my faith, but because it would make those who ridicule, subjected to that justice that befalls some one who would make light, the things of the Lord.

What may be a little confusing, to those out side this Church, is we are all Prophets, over that which we have been entrusted. As a father, I have the right and obligation, to seek revelation or prophecies for my wife and children. I don't have a right to seek revelation for your children, because I haven't the right to tell you how to run your family.

When we talk about having a Prophet, we are talking about someone who has been called, too receive prophecies for the world and for His Church.

I guess the short answer would have been better. We believe that men and women are Prophets and that it is the last days.

allmosthumble

[Elphaba]

<div class='quotemain'>

In Joel 2:28-29, we are told that the Spirit of God would be poured out in the last days, and that there would be dreams, and visions, and prophecies. In fact, we are told that men and women will prophecy.

My sense is that there will be numerous prophets in the last days. Thoughts?

I know many people, men and women, who have had personal prophecies. I do know that these sacred and should not be held out for ridicule.

I, my self have had these, personal revelations and do not want them to be belittled as something of naught. Not because it would weaken my faith, but because it would make those who ridicule, subjected to that justice that befalls some one who would make light, the things of the Lord.

What may be a little confusing, to those out side this Church, is we are all Prophets, over that which we have been entrusted. As a father, I have the right and obligation, to seek revelation or prophecies for my wife and children. I don't have a right to seek revelation for your children, because I haven't the right to tell you how to run your family.

When we talk about having a Prophet, we are talking about someone who has been called, too receive prophecies for the world and for His Church.

I guess the short answer would have been better. We believe that men and women are Prophets and that it is the last days.

alllmosthumble

Did you all know "allmosthumble" is my brother? I love him so much!

Elphaba

[pam]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

In Joel 2:28-29, we are told that the Spirit of God would be poured out in the last days, and that there would be dreams, and visions, and prophecies. In fact, we are told that men and women will prophecy.

My sense is that there will be numerous prophets in the last days. Thoughts?

I know many people, men and women, who have had personal prophecies. I do know that these sacred and should not be held out for ridicule.

I, my self have had these, personal revelations and do not want them to be belittled as something of naught. Not because it would weaken my faith, but because it would make those who ridicule, subjected to that justice that befalls some one who would make light, the things of the Lord.

What may be a little confusing, to those out side this Church, is we are all Prophets, over that which we have been entrusted. As a father, I have the right and obligation, to seek revelation or prophecies for my wife and children. I don't have a right to seek revelation for your children, because I haven't the right to tell you how to run your family.

When we talk about having a Prophet, we are talking about someone who has been called, too receive prophecies for the world and for His Church.

I guess the short answer would have been better. We believe that men and women are Prophets and that it is the last days.

alllmosthumble

Did you all know "allmosthumble" is my brother? I love him so much!

Elphaba

Yes we know

[prisonchaplain]

I could see many false prophets in the last days.

If there are many false prophets in the last days--and I agree that there are--does that not suggest that there are also those who offer true prophecies. Counterfeits would not be effective if the real thing were not out their to immitate and corrupt.

Almosthumble--first, congrats on having a sister who loves ya. 2nd, I'm right in between your two positions. You seem to argue for a "prophethood of all believers," and for a single prophet to head the church. What I'm suggesting is that there will be many in the church who prophecy (not all, but more than one).

[Annabelli]

prisonchaplain: Just so it does not confuse you. All of the paid clergy who were hired in 1965 (+/- 5 yrs)

are retiring. Thus there is once again many employment openings for paid clergy.

This has nothing to do with prophets. But it did cause a lot of confusion in the 60's when the prior generation retired.

[Dr T]

If there are many false prophets in the last days--and I agree that there are--does that not suggest that there are also those who offer true prophecies. Counterfeits would not be effective if the real thing were not out their to immitate and corrupt.

I'd have to look into the above verse but it does not seem to necessarily follow that if there are false prophets around there are true prophets amongs them. I'll have to think that one through however before I can say what I really believe about that issue.

[sixpacktr]

Hey PC,

I agree with what Almost Humble said, and add these:

24 ¶ And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle.

25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

26 But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp.

27 And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp.

28 And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them.

29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD's people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!

(Numbers 11:24 - 29)

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

(Revelation 19:10)

We stress that we should all be prophets, that we should live worthily enough to receive revelation for ourselves and for our families. As patriarch in my home I have the right to receive revelation for my family, but not for the church. I have had those experiences with my girls. My father has rec'd it for me, even after I had left the house many years before and unbidden by me. We members of the LDS church (should) put great stock in the spiritual gifts and manifestations thereof, but must remember that all things must be done in order, for God's house is not a house of confusion.

[tiancum]

i would say that there are many prophets. Anyone with the true testimony of Christ, is a true prophet.

big difference between

A prophet

THE prophet.

I think a false prophet is one who strives to get gain from his/her predictions. Whether it be, money, fame, a following. Basically one who sets himself up as a light to the world. I don't trust when one of these tells me that they have recieved revelation "for" me.

Someone very close to me has seen some wonderful prophecies, but he confesses that he doesn't totally know what they mean. He guesses, and the Lord tells him in part, but sometimes the true meaning doesn't come all at once.

[prisonchaplain]

prisonchaplain: Just so it does not confuse you. All of the paid clergy who were hired in 1965 (+/- 5 yrs)

are retiring. Thus there is once again many employment openings for paid clergy.

This has nothing to do with prophets. But it did cause a lot of confusion in the 60's when the prior generation retired.

I'm not sure which particular faith group you are referring to. My fellowship has roughly 34,000 ordained clergy for 13,000 churches. You do the math. Many serve as assistant pastors, and quite a few a volunteer pastors. Then there are the many who are paid part time for full-time work.

I've no desire to re-argue the appropriateness of clergy being paid for their labors, but you should know that for every teleevangelist making $1 million - plus, there are 10,000s making less than public school teachers, but often having more education. No sympathy needed--just the realization that there are definitely easier ways to make a living.

[Maureen]

All I know is that any church that isn't led by a prophet is a "non-prophet organization," bwahahahahaha.

Where's the groan emoticon?

M.

[prisonchaplain]

<div class='quotemain'>

All I know is that any church that isn't led by a prophet is a "non-prophet organization," bwahahahahaha.

Where's the groan emoticon?

M.

If I understand CK correctly, he's suggesting that we are Prophetless, even though we abound in prophets.

[Traveler]

I will try to answer your post PC – from my point of view.

First it is my point of view that a prophet is someone that acts and speaks with the spirit of prophesy. Rev. chapter 19 tells us that a testimony of Christ is the spirit of prophesy. Sometimes it is my impression that many believe that a testimony of Christ is anything nifty someone says concerning Christ. This brings me to the second point.

Point #2. It is not about saying a specific thing or making a specific point that determines what a testimony of Christ is. I believe Jesus is trying to make this point in Matt 7:15-20. I believe that Jesus is trying to tell us that it is not by what a person says or teaches that will identify them as a prophet with a testimony of Christ. He tells us to identify them by their fruits. In fact Jesus teaches something most strange to most religions. In verse 18 he tells us that a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. A prophet testifying of Christ is a light to the world and is an example or a type of Christ showing us by their example what Christ would do. If an atheist is living a better example of Christ than a Christian then that atheist is more of a prophet of Christ than the Christian and we will answer to G-d why we did not listen to the testimony of Christ.

Point #3. I do not think that it is meant that we should judge others. I do not think in the end we should be asking if President Gordon B Hinckley, or Buddha or Muhammad or any one else is a prophet of Christ. That is not the end we should seek. The end we should seek is if we are a Prophet of Christ. Are we the example of what Christ would do? Are we a light unto the world? Are we the fruit if Christ – if so all questions about who is the prophet that holds the keys of the last days is no longer a point of debate or question to be asked. We know the answer as well as we know G-d and ourselves.

The issue of visions and dreams is another question. I do not have time for now. Perhaps later.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

While I'm not sure I would disagree with what you've said, my thought is that Joel has in mind a more definite type of proclammation when he says that both menservants and maidservants would prophesy. It is doubtful that any OT reader would take him to mean simply that they would tell truthfully and with spiritual passion about the Messiah.

Peter said in Acts 2, in relation to the ecstatic expressions at Pentecost, "THIS is THAT which was spoken by the Prophet Joel..."

[Annabelli]

<div class='quotemain'>

prisonchaplain: Just so it does not confuse you. All of the paid clergy who were hired in 1965 (+/- 5 yrs)

are retiring. Thus there is once again many employment openings for paid clergy.

This has nothing to do with prophets. But it did cause a lot of confusion in the 60's when the prior generation retired.

I'm not sure which particular faith group you are referring to. My fellowship has roughly 34,000 ordained clergy for 13,000 churches. You do the math. Many serve as assistant pastors, and quite a few a volunteer pastors. Then there are the many who are paid part time for full-time work.

I've no desire to re-argue the appropriateness of clergy being paid for their labors, but you should know that for every teleevangelist making $1 million - plus, there are 10,000s making less than public school teachers, but often having more education. No sympathy needed--just the realization that there are definitely easier ways to make a living.

No, No, No, I used paid clergy because religious figures who hold their calling until death do not retire. (you are a bit sensitive about paid clergy.....a paid clergy's salary is dependent on what their Church can afford to pay them.....it's usually comparable to a school teacher/principal's earnings.....while paid clergy can support a modest lifestyle.....they are not going to become rich. Some paid clergy do have to attend to more than one Church of the same faith because not all of the Churches can afford a paid clergy. There are many volunteer clergyman who do conduct services where there is no money for paid clergy.)

Back to the post that I made: With a high retirement, it will inspire many more people to enter a religious school of study and to seek employment in the field of religion. Therefore we will see many more religious candidates than is usually. During the 60's when this occurred, many people saw it as a "sign" of the times and thought it was significant to the last days.

[prisonchaplain]

No, No, No, I used paid clergy because religious figures who hold their calling until death do not retire. (you are a bit sensitive about paid clergy.....a paid clergy's salary is dependent on what their Church can afford to pay them.....it's usually comparable to a school teacher/principal's earnings.....while paid clergy can support a modest lifestyle.....they are not going to become rich. Some paid clergy do have to attend to more than one Church of the same faith because not all of the Churches can afford a paid clergy. There are many volunteer clergyman who do conduct services where there is no money for paid clergy.)

Back to the post that I made: With a high retirement, it will inspire many more people to enter a religious school of study and to seek employment in the field of religion. Therefore we will see many more religious candidates than is usually. During the 60's when this occurred, many people saw it as a "sign" of the times and thought it was significant to the last days.

Thank you for clarifying. I understand the demographic you are suggesting, but wonder if it is specific to certain denominations. As I said, my fellowhip continues to have a glut of ministers--roughly 3:1 congregation. I would guess that many evangelical denominations have similar statistics. Also, most groups continue to rely on young people sensing a call to ministry. As an example, Catholics are running a very serious deficit of priests, and yet the pool of young candidates is also seriously lacking. So, market forces do not seem to be working.

BTW, how would a sudden influx of young clergy fit into end times prophecy?

[Annabelli]

The Lord inspires most people who enter into religion to work. Whether a person wears religious clothing/jewelry or not, people respond to those inspirations. Therefore, we will feel a greater society of religious figures than is usual during this time as was the case in the 60's.

An Episcopalian Priest was picking up his car from the dealership automotive repair shop wearing casual street clothes. When the serviceman came out to give him the keys, the serviceman blushed and said "I'll be right back." The Priest waited nearly an hour before the serviceman reappeared and gave him the keys.

A Pentecostal student took a job at a small discount store. Many of the customers were very moved by him and would ask him where he was going to college.

Two Missionaries were in the bicycle shop when I went in to get a bicycle part for my son. It was their day off and they were dressed in casual dress clothes, cotton shirt and slacks. The shop owner was being so reverent that I barely recognized him. Although I said hi to the Missionaries, I stood quietly by while the shop owner took care of their business.

While we may not know who the false ones are, we definitely know who is called of God. I do know that President Gordon B. Hinckley was called by God.

[CrimsonKairos]

If I understand CK correctly, he's suggesting that we are Prophetless, even though we abound in prophets.

You're lending too much substance to my jest.

I had no point, I was just being silly. B)

[Gaia]

I would be interested in what the term "prophets" means.

GAIA:

Hi Dr. T --

I think it's interesing to note that scripture says the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy (Revelation 19:10.)

Any ideas on what that means, or what it means to you?

Blessings -

~Gaia

[prisonchaplain]

<div class='quotemain'>

If I understand CK correctly, he's suggesting that we are Prophetless, even though we abound in prophets.

You're lending too much substance to my jest.

I had no point, I was just being silly. B)

I could accuse you of doing the same with my comedic retort.