D&C 77:6

[askandanswer]

I recall that there have been several discussions on this forum about the age of the earth, with the conclusion seeming to be that the Church has no official position on this question. That being the case, what are we to understand by Doctrine and Covenants 77:6 in which Joseph Smith spoke of the  "this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance."

[person0]

9 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

I recall that there have been several discussions on this forum about the age of the earth, with the conclusion seeming to be that the Church has no official position on this question. That being the case, what are we to understand by Doctrine and Covenants 77:6 in which Joseph Smith spoke of the  "this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance."

I would say that this is only counting the time since the Fall of Adam.  That is when the earth also 'fell'.

[Vort]

1 hour ago, askandanswer said:

I recall that there have been several discussions on this forum about the age of the earth, with the conclusion seeming to be that the Church has no official position on this question. That being the case, what are we to understand by Doctrine and Covenants 77:6 in which Joseph Smith spoke of the  "this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance."

That was Joseph Smith's understanding, and I daresay the understanding of the vast majority of American adults at that time. I don't think it was intended to be a revelatory doctrinal statement in and of itself.

[The Folk Prophet]

27 minutes ago, Vort said:

I don't think it was intended to be a revelatory doctrinal statement in and of itself.

I do (my opinion). I think we'll be surprised at how many things end up being true despite evidence to the contrary.

[estradling75]

13 minutes ago, Vort said:

That was Joseph Smith's understanding, and I daresay the understanding of the vast majority of American adults at that time. I don't think it was intended to be a revelatory doctrinal statement in and of itself.

I don't know...  We read in Abraham that the Creation of the Earth and Adam happened under the Lord's reckoning of time. That he had not yet appointed Adam his reckoning time-wise.  The Joseph Smith explanation of the Seals of Revelation could easily be a break down of Adam's appointed reckoning. Beginning at the Fall (aka after creation) and ending with the Second Coming...  The time frame that is important to the Lords work.  This would simply reinforce the Idea that God sees time differently.

So I have no problem with seeing it as saying 7000 years from the Fall to the Second Coming as our Temporal Continuance.  I think the assumption that 7000 years from beginning creation to destruction (Which alot of people take it as) is simply an incorrect assumption.  

[Vort]

Just now, The Folk Prophet said:

I do (my opinion). I think we'll be surprised at how many things end up being true despite evidence to the contrary.

Let me be more precise. I think the wording might indeed be literal, but I don't think it means what many people, then or now, take it to mean. "The seven thousand years of the earth's temporal existence" does not mean, or even imply, that the earth was created out of dust (or out of nothing, or out of whatever) seven -- or six -- thousand years ago. "Temporal existence" might well refer to time since Adam's Fall, for example. Those who use this verse as some sort of hard evidence against ancient fossils, dinosaurs, or "pre-Adamites" are misusing -- one might even say wresting -- the scriptures.

[Rob Osborn]

3 hours ago, askandanswer said:

I recall that there have been several discussions on this forum about the age of the earth, with the conclusion seeming to be that the Church has no official position on this question. That being the case, what are we to understand by Doctrine and Covenants 77:6 in which Joseph Smith spoke of the  "this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance."

It means the age of the earth since the fall when death for all creatures great or small entered the earth. "Temporal" in this context means "enduring for a time only; temporary; transitory". We know that sometime after the fall God appointed Adam his reckoning of time.  Of course this doesnt add up with science but then again, neither does the resurrection, immortality or eternal life.

[Guest]

I wonder if there were periods of time completely unrecorded or reckoned between dispensations or recorded millennia.  And who would know how long such periods could have been or what happened during that time?

Edited April 25, 2017 by Guest

[askandanswer]

10 hours ago, person0 said:

I would say that this is only counting the time since the Fall of Adam.  That is when the earth also 'fell'.

I would agree that its probably been around 7000 years since Adam fell but I can't see the evidence suggesting that this is what the scripture is referring to or means

[askandanswer]

9 hours ago, Vort said:

That was Joseph Smith's understanding, and I daresay the understanding of the vast majority of American adults at that time. I don't think it was intended to be a revelatory doctrinal statement in and of itself.

I think if the above is the case, it would be quite analogous to Doctrine and Covenants 20:1 - a scriptural statement giving a timeframe based on the common understanding of the time. However, what might be a significant difference is that in Doctrine and Covenants 77:6 it more clearly seems to be a case of the Prophet speaking, as a Prophet, on specific, doctrinal questions. Additionally, the heading to the section states that  "in connection with the translation of the Scriptures, I received the following explanation of the Revelation of St. John."

Edited April 25, 2017 by askandanswer

[askandanswer]

9 hours ago, Vort said:

"Temporal existence" might well refer to time since Adam's Fall, for example. 

"concerning this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence."

Does the seven thousand years refer to both "its continuance" and "Its temporal existence, and are the phrases "its continuance" and "temporal existence" referring to the same thing, or two different things? Is the earth's continuance the same as, or different from, its temporal existence?

[CV75]

12 hours ago, askandanswer said:

I recall that there have been several discussions on this forum about the age of the earth, with the conclusion seeming to be that the Church has no official position on this question. That being the case, what are we to understand by Doctrine and Covenants 77:6 in which Joseph Smith spoke of the  "this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance."

The verse relates to the earth's temporal existence, which is also the temporal existence of her inhabitants (the "set time" and "reckoning" from Abraham 3:1-13; relates to 77:12 and Moses 1:35 also, and also D&C 88:61), which ranges from the exit of Adam from Eden (Abraham 5:13 and D&C 107:56) to the end of the Millennium (Revelation 10:6 and 12:12).

Edited April 25, 2017 by CV75

[CV75]

11 hours ago, askandanswer said:

"concerning this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence."

Does the seven thousand years refer to both "its continuance" and "Its temporal existence, and are the phrases "its continuance" and "temporal existence" referring to the same thing, or two different things? Is the earth's continuance the same as, or different from, its temporal existence?

I think the two terms refer to the same thing: the reckoning or timing of the dispensations that apply to the posterity of Adam that began 7,000 years ago. Of course science shows that the earth has been inhabited by human beings a lot longer than 7,000 years, but these reckonings pertain to a particular (let's say, "peculiar") group of people. The same with the events such as the Flood (very specific to a covenant people). I'm not sure the dividing of the earth in the days of Peleg really refer to the splitting of the super-continent Pangaea, but rather to a much smaller-scale event (such as Enoch's moving mountains and rivers). Of course the covenant people act in behalf of the salvation of all humanity in the long run, and I'd say in behalf of all creation as well.

[Rob Osborn]

19 hours ago, CV75 said:

I think the two terms refer to the same thing: the reckoning or timing of the dispensations that apply to the posterity of Adam that began 7,000 years ago. Of course science shows that the earth has been inhabited by human beings a lot longer than 7,000 years, but these reckonings pertain to a particular (let's say, "peculiar") group of people. The same with the events such as the Flood (very specific to a covenant people). I'm not sure the dividing of the earth in the days of Peleg really refer to the splitting of the super-continent Pangaea, but rather to a much smaller-scale event (such as Enoch's moving mountains and rivers). Of course the covenant people act in behalf of the salvation of all humanity in the long run, and I'd say in behalf of all creation as well.

I myself place hardly any weight into what "science" has to say. Their foundation is built upon shaky ground.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Rob Osborn

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

I myself place hardly any weight into what "science" has to say. Their foundation is built upon shaky ground.

I find Abraham 5:13 very instructive in this regard. The reckoning we follow, as his posterity, is the one appointed unto Adam. There are other reckonings (the surrounding verses in Abraham 5, and D&C 130:4). I think this appointment entails this earth’s orbital rhythm, but also the subjective (spiritual) sense of what time means for the planet upon which he resides, which is his (and by extension, our) particular stewardship ordained of God.

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

I find Abraham 5:13 very instructive in this regard. The reckoning we follow, as his posterity, is the one appointed unto Adam. There are other reckonings (the surrounding verses in Abraham 5, and D&C 130:4). I think this appointment entails this earth’s orbital rhythm, but also the subjective (spiritual) sense of what time means for the planet upon which he resides, which is his (and by extension, our) particular stewardship ordained of God.

Also, until Adam fell, Adam had not yet been appointed his reckoning yet but the reckoning was still according to that of the Lords reckoning of Kolob. 

13 But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the time that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die. Now I, Abraham, saw that it was after the Lord’s time, which was after the time of Kolob; for as yet the Gods had not appointed unto Adam his reckoning.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

Also, until Adam fell, Adam had not yet been appointed his reckoning yet but the reckoning was still according to that of the Lords reckoning of Kolob. 

13 But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the time that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die. Now I, Abraham, saw that it was after the Lord’s time, which was after the time of Kolob; for as yet the Gods had not appointed unto Adam his reckoning.

That goes without saying!

[wenglund]

On 4/24/2017 at 6:38 PM, askandanswer said:

I recall that there have been several discussions on this forum about the age of the earth, with the conclusion seeming to be that the Church has no official position on this question. That being the case, what are we to understand by Doctrine and Covenants 77:6 in which Joseph Smith spoke of the  "this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance."

For what it is worth, given the context of the question being asked as well as the first part of the answer, I interpret the seven thousand years as referring to the gospel dispensations on earth--i.e. the temporal periods when God's will was revealed, along with his mysteries and economy, to men on earth. In other words, it refers to the time over which the earth was the continued or temporal abode of God's kingdom--the temporal in the likeness of the spiritual and vice-versa (see verse 2). This leaves open the question about the literal age of the earth and the length of time mankind has literally dwelt on earth.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-