Are the Celestial Terrestrial and Telestial Kingdoms physical places or a state of being?

[Guest]

This was brought up in another thread but I feel it deserves it's own thread. It says in scripture that there are different glories. There are even 3 degrees in the Celestial glory. All will be with the Father in Celestial glory. Could it be that Celestial terrestrial and Telestial glory are not separate locations but separate experiences and state of beings? That way everyone can have their personalized heaven and it makes sense when you go through the different stages of the endowment. I'm coming around to the idea that celestial glory is more about what kind of body we are resurrected with.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Zarahemla

[Fether]

Both! Physical places, the Celestial Kigdom will be this earth. And states of being in that our bodies will be glorified to different extents. 

The spiritworld is a different story. There is only one spirit world. The idea of paradise and prison refers not to places, but states of being.

[zil]

@Zarahemla, let's look at what we know from scripture:

1) There are both glories and kingdoms described.

2) Those of a higher order can descend to visit those of a lower order, but those of the lower order cannot ascend to visit those of a higher order (this suggests to me that terrestrial and telestial are not permanently cohabitating, so to speak).

3) The Earth lives a celestial law and will receive a celestial glory.

4) The Earth is a place.

Thus, it is my opinion, that "celestial" is a state of existence which can be shared by both people and "places".  Personally, I think anywhere a celestial being chooses to go, they take a little bubble of celestial location (kingdom) with them.  But that's me.  If nothing else, any place which lives the celestial law could be described as a celestial kingdom...

(Your idea of terrestrial and telestial occupying the same space but living a different level of existence is intriguing (and I think is what happens in mortality, in a sense), but #2 above tells me this is probably not the case, unless there's a way to pull it off while maintaining what's taught in scripture, and I don't see such a way.  And I do see problems with it - how terrestrial will it be if you're surrounded by people being exceedingly telestial?)

[Guest]

I happen to believe that different "realms" exist here on earth right now.

 

I also believe that even mortals can exist in different planes/vibration levels/whatever you want to call it, but that may be a different discussion that would probably have a certain population of this site questioning my sanity.

[zil]

3 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

...a certain population of this site questioning my sanity.

Don't worry, Eowyn, everyone does that already, so no harm done.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, zil said:

Don't worry, Eowyn, everyone does that already, so no harm done.

That's a relief.

[zil]

Just now, Eowyn said:

That's a relief.

That's what Relief Society Presidents are for, you know, to offer relief.

[Guest]

Just now, zil said:

That's what Relief Society Presidents are for, you know, to offer relief.

Bite your tongue!

[person0]

There is insufficient information available to establish a doctrine on this matter of any sort, as far as I am aware.  One of my personal imponderable questions has always been:  If the earth will receive celestial glory, and there are three physically distinct kingdoms, what did the other planets do to deserve only a terrestrial and telestial glory?  Also, from where will those planets be taken?  And we can keep going.  I have not established an opinion on the matter, because, there is no scriptural verse or related statement by a General Authority, except to state that the earth itself will receive celestial glory and will be the celestial kingdom; that much we do know.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, zil said:

Don't worry, Eowyn, everyone does that already, so no harm done.

DangIT?  you beat me to it again!

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

that would probably have a certain population of this site questioning my sanity.

Hey, remember, you don't have to suffer from insanity.  You should enjoy every minute of it.

[Traveler]

9 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

This was brought up in another thread but I feel it deserves it's own thread. It says in scripture that there are different glories. There are even 3 degrees in the Celestial glory. All will be with the Father in Celestial glory. Could it be that Celestial terrestrial and Telestial glory are not separate locations but separate experiences and state of beings? That way everyone can have their personalized heaven and it makes sense when you go through the different stages of the endowment. I'm coming around to the idea that celestial glory is more about what kind of body we are resurrected with.

 

I am thinking you are indeed on the correct path of thinking but you are not seeing the forest because of all the trees.

 

The Traveler

[Rob Osborn]

9 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

This was brought up in another thread but I feel it deserves it's own thread. It says in scripture that there are different glories. There are even 3 degrees in the Celestial glory. All will be with the Father in Celestial glory. Could it be that Celestial terrestrial and Telestial glory are not separate locations but separate experiences and state of beings? That way everyone can have their personalized heaven and it makes sense when you go through the different stages of the endowment. I'm coming around to the idea that celestial glory is more about what kind of body we are resurrected with.

Well, this earth is the telestial kingdom/ telestial world with our heaven we see at night in the sky(first heaven). When Christ comes to usher in the millennium it will be brought to a new place in the heavens (the second heaven) and will be quickened to the glory Christ brings and will be the terrestrial kingdom/ terrestrial world. At the end of the millennium it will be once again brought to a new place in the heavens, quickened once again(third heaven) and be crowned with the presence and glory of the Father and Son and be the celestial kingdom/ celestial world.

[Rob Osborn]

9 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

That way everyone can have their personalized heaven and it makes sense when you go through the different stages of the endowment. 

The different stages of the endowment represent us as we progress from one glory to the next through obedience. This happens on this earth as it changes from the telestial kingdom into the celestial kingdom.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Rob Osborn

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

Well, this earth is the telestial kingdom/ telestial world with our heaven we see at night in the sky(first heaven). When Christ comes to usher in the millennium it will be brought to a new place in the heavens (the second heaven) and will be quickened to the glory Christ brings and will be the terrestrial kingdom/ terrestrial world. At the end of the millennium it will be once again brought to a new place in the heavens, quickened once again(third heaven) and be crowned with the presence and glory of the Father and Son and be the celestial kingdom/ celestial world.

What, according to your understanding, better defines a “Kingdom”?  A place?  Or a Suzerain?

The Traveler

[Rob Osborn]

18 minutes ago, Traveler said:

What, according to your understanding, better defines a “Kingdom”?  A place?  Or a Suzerain?

The Traveler

A kingdom is defined by several things- its glory, its location, and its rules and laws. Its a mixture of those things.

[Guest]

This is a good thread to ask this question. Are the people who come forth in the Morning of the First Resurrection those that will make the Celestial Kingdom?

[Rob Osborn]

1 minute ago, Zarahemla said:

This is a good thread to ask this question. Are the people who come forth in the Morning of the First Resurrection those that will make the Celestial Kingdom?

Yes. You only have to worry if you are coming forth in the second or last resurrection.

[Traveler]

4 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

A kingdom is defined by several things- its glory, its location, and its rules and laws. Its a mixture of those things.

 

Hmmmmmmmmm - If you are interested - I would suggest some reading: "Dynastic Oracle and Suzerainty Trety" by Philip Caldetone and "Divine Kingship in the Ancient Near East by Ivan Engnell.  Perhaps there is actual reason why G-d and the prophets reference the divine order as a “kingdom”.  There are much more than the loose interpretations often assumed in our modern religious community.  The LDS references to Celestial society (as well as the church) as a “Kingdom” may be far more inspired than many realize – helping to better understand concepts like divine covenants, taking upon one the name of Christ, what it means to believe in the Suzerain of the kingdom, what it means to be one with the Suzerain (insights into the G-dhead as separate individuals that have the same title of “King”), what constitutes recognition, the rights of citizens of the Kingdom among other “things”.

 

The Traveler

[Mike]

8 hours ago, Eowyn said:

I happen to believe that different "realms" exist here on earth right now.

I also believe that even mortals can exist in different planes/vibration levels/whatever you want to call it, but that may be a different discussion that would probably have a certain population of this site questioning my sanity.

I'm curious. I'll watch for another thread. But in the mean time please tell me more. You placed realms in quotation marks, and you used the term planes/vibration levels.  Are these words your own choice, or do they have a different source? What do you believe, and what motivates that belief. (No intent here other than my curiosity). 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Mike said:

I'm curious. I'll watch for another thread. But in the mean time please tell me more. You placed realms in quotation marks, and you used the term planes/vibration levels.  Are these words your own choice, or do they have a different source? What do you believe, and what motivates that belief. (No intent here other than my curiosity). 

You don't have to wait for another thread. You can discuss it in this thread if you like.

[Guest]

I also think the different levels and separation could be not necessarily kingdoms, but degrees of knowledge. Like you wouldn't put a kindergartner with people with PHDs but the people with PHDs could help the kindergartners grow into having one day the same knowledge.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Mike said:

I'm curious. I'll watch for another thread. But in the mean time please tell me more. You placed realms in quotation marks, and you used the term planes/vibration levels.  Are these words your own choice, or do they have a different source? What do you believe, and what motivates that belief. (No intent here other than my curiosity). 

I just don't know that I accept any terminology I've ever heard for it. Most often you're hear frequency or vibration, but that sounds too hippy-ish for me. I'll choose vibration for the sake of this conversation. I do believe we live at different vibrations. Someone living with a lot of hope and faith and optimism vs. a Debby Downer who's living in fear or skepticism, constantly dwelling on negativity, are living in the very same world but at the same time, not. Their experiences and perception are wildly different. I would say that the faith-filled, optimistic person is living at a higher vibration or even higher realm than the one living in fear and negativity. 

There are a lot of things written on the topic, mostly touted as aspects of quantum physics. I admittedly am not well-versed, but I spend a lot of time with someone who is. I don't know how solid the science of it is, but a lot of it rings true to me. 

[Mike]

16 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

I just don't know that I accept any terminology I've ever heard for it.

I'll choose vibration for the sake of this conversation. I do believe we live at different vibrations. Someone living with a lot of hope and faith and optimism vs. a Debby Downer who's living in fear or skepticism, constantly dwelling on negativity, are living in the very same world but at the same time, not. Their experiences and perception are wildly different. I would say that the faith-filled, optimistic person is living at a higher vibration or even higher realm than the one living in fear and negativity. 

There are a lot of things written on the topic, mostly touted as aspects of quantum physics. I admittedly am not well-versed, but I spend a lot of time with someone who is. I don't know how solid the science of it is, but a lot of it rings true to me. 

Thanks for sharing. By the way: 

Quote

Most often you're hear frequency or vibration, but that sounds too hippy-ish for me.

I've been "picking up good vibrations, oom, bop, bop" for along time from a certain girl I met (and married) a long time ago.

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Mike said:

I've been "picking up good vibrations, oom, bop, bop" for along time from a certain girl I met (and married) a long time ago

I'm going to guess that she's giving you excitations.