Feelings on Video Games

[eddified]

On 7/31/2017 at 7:38 PM, zil said:

I hope you've leveled up, and have plenty of weapons in your stockpile, and lots of extra lives, because you've just started a war.  (And your enemies will now laugh at my attempt to use their terminology.)

Are there previous threads about video games? I haven't seen them. (Haven't looked, either.)

[zil]

Just now, eddified said:

Are there previous threads about video games? I haven't seen them. (Haven't looked, either.)

I don't know if there are previous threads, but there have been posts.

[eddified]

I agree that video game playing can be idle -- in the same way as playing cards can be. Previous presidents of the church have decried all types of card games (I think), saying they are idle. 

That said, I don't see any harm in playing a fun, wholesome party game with other people. This is what I love to do - play multi-player video games with my children and wife and brother in law (or what have you). I personally don't play video games often. But I admit they can hold a power over some people. They can be very addictive. I have no problem with someone that has a goal to never play video games -- for whatever reason, whether it be they believe video games are idle, or they used to be addicted to them and need to stay away, or any other reason whatsoever. 

A fun party game with the kids is 4-player Tetris. My wife plays too.

Edited August 2, 2017 by eddified

[paracaidista508]

10 minutes ago, eddified said:

Are there previous threads about video games? I haven't seen them. (Haven't looked, either.)

 

Interesting thread

[artista]

I think it is completely unfair to judge these young men by their video games. Have you ever stopped to considered what they struggle with? Maybe depression, or anxiety, or lack of motivation. & you know, maybe these problems started by playing video games. But the real problem in these cases wouldn't be the video games. In my opinion there is a deeper need not being met which leads them to spend hours playing these games, or eating unhealthy, or looking at porn. Maybe they weren't raised with a strong work ethic, or they had poor communication within their family, maybe their parents never cared so they didn't stop to think if it was wrong. We mustn't judge. We have no room to judge. We only have room and the responsibility to love and correct with love. If you said what you just said to any young man or woman struggling with any addiction or problem, I highly doubt it would give them motivation to stop. Love must be the motivator of all things. We must look deeper within the person and see the Royalty they really are.

[Guest MormonGator]

17 minutes ago, paracaidista508 said:

Well gee I feel so bad you are offended.
 

Shows a lot of class to apologize, thank you very much. 

 

[paracaidista508]

5 minutes ago, artista said:

I think it is completely unfair to judge these young men by their video games. Have you ever stopped to considered what they struggle with? Maybe depression, or anxiety, or lack of motivation. & you know, maybe these problems started by playing video games. But the real problem in these cases wouldn't be the video games. In my opinion there is a deeper need not being met which leads them to spend hours playing these games, or eating unhealthy, or looking at porn. Maybe they weren't raised with a strong work ethic, or they had poor communication within their family, maybe their parents never cared so they didn't stop to think if it was wrong. We mustn't judge. We have no room to judge. We only have room and the responsibility to love and correct with love. If you said what you just said to any young man or woman struggling with any addiction or problem, I highly doubt it would give them motivation to stop. Love must be the motivator of all things. We must look deeper within the person and see the Royalty they really are.

Well good luck with fixing them. I'll leave that to their parents. I have my own problems like keeping them away from my daughter. Perhaps they will find some nice young lady in the ward who can marry them and make a fix-it project out of them. Seen it before and it usually doesn't end well.

[paracaidista508]

4 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Shows a lot of class to apologize, thank you very much. 

 

Not an apology and you know it  

 

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, paracaidista508 said:

Not an apology and you know it  

 

I do know it, and like I said, takes a lot of class to apologize. 

[artista]

1 minute ago, paracaidista508 said:

Well good luck with fixing them. I'll leave that to their parents. I have my own problems like keeping them away from my daughter. Perhaps they will find some nice young lady in the ward who can marry them and make a fix-it project out of them. Seen it before and it usually doesn't end well.

So you're just going to give up on them? You're a leader in their ward right? Maybe to get to know these young men better and see who they truly are and truly can become you can do an activity where you play a video game that consists of multiple players. Take interest in what they obviously take interest in. Show them you care about THEM. Then they will feel you love, who knows how long it will take. You have talents that they need. They also have talents to contribute to this world too. Maybe they don't know what they are or don't know how to use them. You can play an enormous role in their life with faith and love  

[paracaidista508]

25 minutes ago, artista said:

So you're just going to give up on them? You're a leader in their ward right? Maybe to get to know these young men better and see who they truly are and truly can become you can do an activity where you play a video game that consists of multiple players. Take interest in what they obviously take interest in. Show them you care about THEM. Then they will feel you love, who knows how long it will take. You have talents that they need. They also have talents to contribute to this world too. Maybe they don't know what they are or don't know how to use them. You can play an enormous role in their life with faith and love  

Uhhhh who said I was a leader in their ward? 

I could help them out, but that would involve work gloves, a gallon of water, a hat and having to hear them whine about the 103F temp. No way would I play a vid game with them- they need to get out of the house and get to work being productive.
 

Edited August 2, 2017 by paracaidista508

[paracaidista508]

4 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I do know it, and like I said, takes a lot of class to apologize. 

Ill remain classless then

[person0]

I imagine the video game discussion is nearly the same as the word of wisdom discussion.  Aside from the things that are obviously wrong in games, the implications of their use will be different for different people.  Just as a diabetic should probably stay away from a doughnut eating competition, and someone who is lactose intolerant should not be drinking milk, a person susceptible to game addiction should generally stay away from gaming.  It doesn't mean that games or doughnuts or milk are inherently bad, it means that they are wrong for that person when used in [X] quantity.  This is why we teach one another correct principles and then allow each to govern themselves.  The problem is more related to people not governing themselves appropriately; a secondary problem could be some video game companies not caring and advertising and designing games in calculated addictive ways.  Regardless, conspiring men make some games bad, but agency allows us to choose to participate at a personally appropriate level.  People are using their agency unwisely, it does not make games themselves inherently good or bad.

[paracaidista508]

5 minutes ago, person0 said:

I imagine the video game discussion is nearly the same as the word of wisdom discussion.  Aside from the things that are obviously wrong in games, the implications of their use will be different for different people.  Just as a diabetic should probably stay away from a doughnut eating competition, and someone who is lactose intolerant should not be drinking milk, a person susceptible to game addiction should generally stay away from gaming.  It doesn't mean that games or doughnuts or milk are inherently bad, it means that they are wrong for that person when used in [X] quantity.  This is why we teach one another correct principles and then allow each to govern themselves.  The problem is more related to people not governing themselves appropriately; a secondary problem could be some video game companies not caring and advertising and designing games in calculated addictive ways.  Regardless, conspiring men make some games bad, but agency allows us to choose to participate at a personally appropriate level.  People are using their agency unwisely, it does not make games themselves inherently good or bad.

Wrong...many games are inherently bad. Just read the "about this item" description in this product. This is just one example. Sure there are good ones to be found I guess, but this one can be found in many LDS homes.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Grand-Theft-Auto-V-PC/37789148?wmlspartner=wmtlabs#about-item

[paracaidista508]

I'm curious if any dedicated gamers here could tally their play time for a month and compare that with the time spent working on their unachieved goals??? I really am curious how much time one spends doing one vs the other. It may say a lot about how much they value achieving the goal. 

Sure it is unscientific, but would be interesting.

[Jane_Doe]

3 minutes ago, paracaidista508 said:

I'm curious if any dedicated gamers here could tally their play time for a month and compare that with the time spent working on their unachieved goals??? I really am curious how much time one spends doing one vs the other. It may say a lot about how much they value achieving the goal. 

Sure it is unscientific, but would be interesting.

Let's make another list for tv, social media, and other pursuits.  You go first.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Jane_Doe

[person0]

18 minutes ago, paracaidista508 said:

. . .many games are inherently bad. . . there are good ones to be found. . .

Your statement proves my point.  Perhaps you didn't read clearly when I said this:

27 minutes ago, person0 said:

Aside from the things that are obviously wrong in games . . .

[Backroads]

I suggest we tally our time frittered away on this forum.

[paracaidista508]

10 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Let's make another list for tv, social media, and other pursuits.  You go first.

I'll get right on that...after I start defending any of them as a worthy substitute for accomplishing my goals.

[eddified]

13 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I suggest we tally our time frittered away on this forum.

I think you forgot to drop the mic ? . Great point !

[mirkwood]

I like video games.  I don't play them as much as I used to.  I play an online FPS with some friends on Thursday nights for 2-3 hours.  I may or may not play video games during the rest of the week depending on what else is going on in my life.  If I were to take a guess, I would say my video gaming time runs 2-5 hours a week, with 2-3 being the most likely.

 

My kids on the other hand...

Edited August 2, 2017 by mirkwood

[eddified]

51 minutes ago, paracaidista508 said:

I'm curious if any dedicated gamers here could tally their play time for a month and compare that with the time spent working on their unachieved goals??? I really am curious how much time one spends doing one vs the other. It may say a lot about how much they value achieving the goal. 

Sure it is unscientific, but would be interesting.

I agree with you to an extent. Again my card playing analogy comes up: if anyone describes themself as a "dedicated card player" I would ask they take a long hard look at their dedication to what I would term to be an idle pursuit. Same for video games. I too believe lots of time is wasted on them. 

Edit: or a dedicated tv watcher. 

Edited August 2, 2017 by eddified

[Fether]

2 hours ago, paracaidista508 said:

Well gee I feel so bad you are offended.

First off I directed this at the "men" in the YSA wards. Not all of them, just the ones who occupy their free time by wasting it on this garbage while they should be trying to make something of themselves. Theres no helping them. If the motivation of having a real life and a wife is not enough, what am I gonna do? After all they served their missions and are priesthood holders so all the boxes are checked right?? Thats waht they think possibly. Little do they know that is just scratching the surface. Not my problem so long as they stay away from my daughter. Now that you mention it- I also know several older men with kids. wife etc who still cant maintain good jobs, etc because they don't have any time to go to school to improve themselves. They do have time to sit around playing games though. I didn't just make this up, this is what they say they do with their free time. Ive been an Elder for 25 yrs and I have heard it over and over. I do also know some who play games and are just fine, but I would bet they don't spend much time doing it- their wives would kill them.

Back to the YSA topic: Just like many here who are fathers or mothers who feel any young man is not worthy to marry their daughter if they didn't serve a full time mission for whatever that actually is worth, I also reserve the right to label and discriminate against anyone I would feel worthy to marry my daughter. When you spend the better part of three years getting feedback from three different YSA wards, knowing dozens of the young men there, what they do with their free time, what their career aspirations are (or are not) and seeing their progress or the lack thereof well you begin to form an opinion.

I mentioned previously being able to point out about 50 or so who are dead enders or "losers" which they are and show you some real winners. Many constantly whine about not being able to get a good job. Well they have no college or only take one class at a time so likely will never finish. Many say they don't have time for school, yet they play games 20 hrs a week. Employment is also a huge issue. We have tons of jobs available here. Problem is many are unwilling to work a night shift, or on weekends, or outside, or at all. The one thing they all have in common- they burn their free time (aside from complaining about not having the ideal job or school stuff) playing video games. Either still living with mom and dad or with four others just like them in a 2 bedroom apt. Three years later, many of them have gone no where, but they are always out and about on their Instagram or FB thing and when not dong that they are playing games.

As a Father, any dude who is gonna court my daughter better have their act together and display a little bit of drive towards accomplishing something. If they cant even do it when it is easy and while they are single with no kids, how can I know they will be even  worth having around as a son-in-law? I mean am I gonna have to support them? Is my daughter going to have to work extra (more than full time) just because mr mushy body cant get off the couch? Naturally she can choose who she marries, but she complains about the same issues with the guys. She openly acknowledges most of them are up to absolutely nothing. Women tend to marry people like their fathers in many cases so go figure where she gets her opinion. 

I'm not the perfect dad, perfect priesthood holder or whatever. I do work very hard and while doing so to get the employment I wanted which was appropriate for our family, I was aggressive about taking as much school as I could afford and worked two jobs (60+ hrs a week). Good thing xbox or PS or whatever wasn't around then. Id still have just my HS diploma and never would have accomplished what I have AND been able to provide a comfortable living for my family. I expect the same of a SIL.

When I was in the Army as a Private- they instilled in me many principles about leadership to include being aggressive about studying, out working your competition, being loyal, sacrificing your time, money, your last bite of that tasty MRE, sleep and even your life to help a brother out. Every time I went to a school or to some kind of training the motivation coming from leadership was to absolutely win at all ethical costs, be ruthless in the pursuit of success and never leave a fallen comrade. By the same token, those who were not willing to be an asset to the team were promptly gotten rid of. I didn't learn that at church and never would have. Perhaps those are terrible traits and values, but they are what I have and I expect any prospective son in law to at least have a little of each of those values. 

I don't care if they went on a mission, went in the military or went straight to school- if they cant step up and be a man and do everything it takes to succeed then they are by my definition a "loser." If they can do all that and still find time to play games then so be it, but they are not the norm.

This post is 100% true. I hope my previous disagreement didn't put a bad taste in your mouth or that left you feeling cornered in this topic.

a little background with my family. I'm the oldest and grew up playing video games. Naturally my siblings followed. One sibling plays videogames probably as much as I do. With some games (namely Skyrim)  she would play more than me. She is now, after having overcome emotional and learning disabilities, in the air national guard and about to head off to college, likely going to be in the same situation your daughter was in.

Another sibling plays a TON. He had a lot of friends that play with him too. He is the kindest human being I know and is very active in the church. I have never in all my years of knowing my brother ever heard him say an unkind thing about anyone (though we have gotten into our argument growing up). While home a while ago, I walked into his room and with his NINTENDO posters on the wall, he had a white board with inspirational quotes written all over. I feel absolute love and admiration for my brother when I think about how he treats others. When he was about 10, a friend of his at our house was talking bad about another kid in our Ward. My brother did not hesitate to to stand in defense of this kid. Who of us can say that we had the charity to do that st age 10???

my last sibling plays a ton! And does very little else. He also struggles greatly with an emotional disability that renders him nearly paralyzed when around others in social situations. He panics at the idea of being around others he doesn't know and trying new things. He has insanely high expectations for himself and if he doesn't meet them, he breaks down. I once asked him a simple "what do you think" question in FHE and he started crying cause he didn't know. It broke my heart. With these struggles, he is also the smartest kid I have ever known. He missed a TON of school last ear because of a series of sicknesses and day's feeling scared of going to school. He passed the year with straight As. He beats us all in every board game, understood and used sarcasm at the same time he could speak, plays with robot electrical systems and is crazy goofy  

None of this is to defend the use of videogames, but just to show that these people have more effecting their lives than just a sick addiction to videogames. I have a friend that plays a to. And probably fits in that "loser" category. He wants to get married so bad, but recently was dumped because he didn't meet his girlfriends standard of righteousness.

I agree more than I disagree  I have probably fallen into that "loser" category oftennin my life 

Edited August 2, 2017 by Fether

[paracaidista508]

No drama...I don't get offended too easy and I enjoy a spirited disussion. I get the whole introvert, mental health, anxiety etc issue. That's not likely at play here in these singles wards. Unless we want to automatically assume they all have behavioural health issues, I'm going to assume that since most if not all of them served allegedly successful missions they are prob ok....just lazy.

[zil]

26 minutes ago, Fether said:

A bother sibling ...

Hey, I have one of those too.  I'll bet we all do. <sigh>