Mad at Modesty

[Grunt]

12 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

And as I said, a swim brief is just as modest as a typical woman’s one piece. 

I disagree.  

[BJ64]

 

5 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I disagree.  

Explain why? A swim brief covers as much leg and buttocks as a typical woman one piece. More if the woman’s suit has high cut leg openings and no man’s suit covers his chest and abdomen. 

Why is it okay for women to show thigh and not men?

Edited May 12, 2018 by BJ64

[Grunt]

5 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

 

Explain why? A swim brief covers as much leg and buttocks as a typical woman one piece. More if the woman’s suit has high cut leg openings and no man’s suit covers his chest and abdomen. 

Why is it okay for women to show thigh and not men?

Because male anatomy is different than female anatomy and the expectations are different.  I’m a little surprised this needs to be explained to you.  You may disagree, but my reasons should be fairly obvious.  

Edited May 12, 2018 by Grunt

[BJ64]

4 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Because male anatomy is different than female anatomy and the expectations are different.  I’m a little surprised this needs to be explained to you.  You may disagree, but my reasons should be fairly obvious.  

Do you have problems with the fact that the contour of a woman’s anatomy is noticeable or would you prefer that women swim in a burka in so that you can’t see the shape of their physique.  

[Grunt]

2 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

Do you have problems with the fact that the contour of a woman’s anatomy is noticeable or would you prefer that women swim in a burka in so that you can’t see the shape of their physique.  

I recognize that the male and female anatomy is different and some things at acceptable to me and some things aren’t.  

I also recognize we aren’t discussing female swimsuits.  We’re discussing male swimsuits.  Some I find to comply with my expectations of modesty, some I done.  

 

 

[BJ64]

10 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Because male anatomy is different than female anatomy and the expectations are different.  I’m a little surprised this needs to be explained to you.  You may disagree, but my reasons should be fairly obvious.  

So what do you expect fitness and competive swimmers to wear?

[Grunt]

4 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

So what do you expect fitness and competive swimmers to wear?

I also recognize that expectations change with situations.  

Edited May 12, 2018 by Grunt

[BJ64]

4 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I recognize that the male and female anatomy is different and some things at acceptable to me and some things aren’t.  

I also recognize we aren’t discussing female swimsuits.  We’re discussing male swimsuits.  Some I find to comply with my expectations of modesty, some I done.  

 

 

I suppose then that young men shouldn’t wrestle in high school because their shape shows in their tight fitting singlet. . 

[Grunt]

3 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

I suppose then that young men shouldn’t wrestle in high school because their shape shows in their tight fitting singlet. . 

See above.  

[BJ64]

15 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I also recognize that expectations change with situations.  

This is from my first statement 

“I wear them at a public pool several times a week. 

 I’ve been wearing them since I was a teenager. I swim laps and swim briefs are what swimmers wear. ”

 

[Grunt]

9 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

This is from my first statement 

“I wear them at a public pool several times a week. 

 I’ve been wearing them since I was a teenager. I swim laps and swim briefs are what swimmers wear. ”

 

I read just fine.  I never stated my opinion of modesty changes, I said I recognize expectations change with situations.  In my opinion, a public pool isn’t the place for a speedo.  You may have different standards of morality and modesty.  That’s your right.  

[Just_A_Guy]

I understand the need for swim briefs or a Speedo or whatever when swimming competitively—need to eliminate drag, or whatever (though it seems like some sort of bodysuit has been prevailing over traditional Speedos and one-pieces for both men and women over the past ten years or so).

But for recreational or fitness swimming—I confess, I don’t see the appeal (for someone used to American social mores, at least).  Modesty seems to be one of those weird topics where the term is defined in relatives; and swim briefs are immodest relative to other men’s swimwear (ditto for bikinis versus one-pieces for women).  If nude swimming ever becomes a cultural norm, then I daresay the Church would concede that bikinis and Speedos are very modest indeed.

But in the meantime, if you’re swimming for exercise, wouldn’t a little extra drag be a *good* thing?

Edited May 12, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[JohnsonJones]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 11:16 AM, Just_A_Guy said:

I understand the need for swim briefs or a Speedo or whatever when swimming competitively—need to eliminate drag, or whatever (though it seems like some sort of bodysuit has been prevailing over traditional Speedos and one-pieces for both men and women over the past ten years or so).

But for recreational or fitness swimming—I confess, I don’t see the appeal (for someone used to American social mores, at least).  Modesty seems to be one of those weird topics where the term is defined in relatives; and swim briefs are immodest relative to other men’s swimwear (ditto for bikinis versus one-pieces for women).  If nude swimming ever becomes a cultural norm, then I daresay the Church would concede that bikinis and Speedos are very modest indeed.

But in the meantime, if you’re swimming for exercise, wouldn’t a little extra drag be a *good* thing?

I don't know...people in drag kind of scare me at times...

 

(PS: for those without a sense of humor...the above is a joke...)

[anatess2]

@BJ64, wearing your tighty whiteys in the public pool, I'm sure, you will think is inappropriate.  I'm sure even your boxer briefs which cover a heckalot more than your speedos you'd probably think inappropriate, right?  Therefore, it is not about how much skin is being laid bare.  Rather, it is about what is appropriate for the occasion.  Speedos, as the name implies, is built for speed in competition.  There's no such need in leisure swimming in a public pool.  Now, if you're training for a swim event, then sure, wearing your speedos in your training pool wouldn't be inappropriate.  It's like beach volleyball - there's a specific reason competitive beach volleyball players wear what they wear.  But, wearing that outfit out to the grocery store... well, I guess it would be just like wearing bermuda shorts to Church.  This all goes with the concept of Modesty - it's not just the outfit, it's the outfit with the spiritual mindset.

[BJ64]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

It's like beach volleyball - there's a specific reason competitive beach volleyball players wear what they wear.  

However there is no justification for what they wear in women’s beach volleyball. If men get along okay wearing shorts and a shirt then women don’t need to wear a bikini. Of course they dress as they do for the benefit of the viewers. 

[anatess2]

5 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

However there is no justification for what they wear in women’s beach volleyball. If men get along okay wearing shorts and a shirt then women don’t need to wear a bikini. Of course they dress as they do for the benefit of the viewers. 

Sure.  That's your opinion on the thing.  Having been a regular volleyball player myself, there's a completely different physicality between men and women that affects what they wear.  A guy's legs can lift much heavier things and have more heat tolerance than a woman's can.  But, hey, that's a matter of opinion but my statement on appropriate attire still stands.

[Guest MormonGator]

15 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I don't know...people in drag kind of scare me at times...

 Hey pal, what I do on the weekends is my own business. 

[BJ64]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

Speedos, as the name implies, is built for speed in competition.  There's no such need in leisure swimming in a public pool.  

I suppose there’s no need to wear swimwear at all. Just get into the water fully dressed. 

A swim brief is comfortable and dries quickly when you get out of the water. 

This whole speedos are immodest thing is just a puritanical/Victorian American mindset. Other parts of the world are much less concerned about guys in swim briefs. In France it is required to wear swim briefs in public pools for sanitation reasons. Men shouldn’t be wearing shorts in a public pool which can also be worn out on the street. It’s not sanitary. In France there are speedo dispensers at pools so you can buy one if you don’t have one. 

People believe what they are taught about modesty. If you tell people that a certain style of swimsuit is immodest that’s what they grow up believing. If you grow up in a place where brief swimwear is considered normal then you’ll think it’s normal. If you were raised going to nude public beaches then nudity would not be considered immodest. 

By 1800’s standards every woman in America is dressing immodestly by showing their arms, ankles and neck. 

There is really nothing wrong with nudity in appropriate settings. It was Satan who told Adam and Eve to hide their nakedness. 

To get back to the original topic, as I asked before, does anyone really get turned on by seeing a woman’s shoulder?

Edited May 14, 2018 by BJ64

[BJ64]

20 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Sure.  That's your opinion on the thing.  Having been a regular volleyball player myself, there's a completely different physicality between men and women that affects what they wear.  A guy's legs can lift much heavier things and have more heat tolerance than a woman's can.  But, hey, that's a matter of opinion but my statement on appropriate attire still stands.

Women must have weak legs if they can’t lift six or eight inches of cloth and it has been my observation that men are much less heat tolerant than women. 

[Guest MormonGator]

6 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

There is really nothing wrong with nudity in appropriate settings.

Agree totally. I think the Europeans have it right. Nudity is much more accepted there, like we all know. Americans can be very prudish about those sort of things. 

[anatess2]

10 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

Women must have weak legs if they can’t lift six or eight inches of cloth and it has been my observation that men are much less heat tolerant than women. 

It's extreme competition.  Everything is maximized for efficiency.  Runners, the same.  Gymnasts, the same.  Speed skaters, the same.  Each wear the uniform that maximizes efficiency at the elitest of levels.

And, living in the Philippines where there are only 2 seasons - hot and hotter - men here wear jeans a lot, women would rather not.

[BJ64]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

 It's like beach volleyball - there's a specific reason competitive beach volleyball players wear what they wear.  But, wearing that outfit out to the grocery store... well, I guess it would be just like wearing bermuda shorts to Church. 

I’ve considered wearing dress shorts to church but I know it would not be accepted. Why is it that women can wear skirts to their knees and flip flops to church and no one bats an eye? It’s a double standard. 

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

I’ve considered wearing dress shorts to church but I know it would not be accepted. Why is it that women can wear skirts to their knees and flip flops to church and no one bats an eye? It’s a double standard. 

We went a few weeks ago for the first time in years and my wife wore a top that showed her shoulders. I wore a polo shirt and khakis. No one cared. 

 

[BJ64]

14 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

We went a few weeks ago for the first time in years and my wife wore a top that showed her shoulders. I wore a polo shirt and khakis. No one cared. 

 

I wear white dress shirts and khakis. Khakis are actually quite popular where I’m at. However, men never wear shorts. I’m just trying to figure out why it’s acceptable for women to show their calves and not men. 

Its really a double standard that in any standard of dress that men have to wear more than women. The exception being men going shirtless. I even know of LDS mothers making their sons wear shirts when swimming because they say, if it’s immodest for girls to go shirtless then it’s immodest for boys too. 

I wear a tank top at the gym. I have observed that about ten percent of men there wear tank tops and about ninety percent of women do. I don’t understand why more men don’t wear tank tops at the gym.  

[Guest MormonGator]

11 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

 I’m just trying to figure out why it’s acceptable for women to show their calves and not men. 

Beats me.