Scripture Question... What's Your Opinion?

[anatess2]

3 minutes ago, Alex said:

Eh, philosophies of man? God used the symbolism of his numbers all through the old and new testaments. He even flooded the planet using those same numbers or sent the planet into darkness using that symbolism. Even the Book of Mormon has that symbolism in it. 3, 7, 12, 40, 70- when we see those numbers in scripture it is the divine plan in action.

Maybe it's just me but those numbers reassure me. They assuage doubt in that they link the past with the present- much like a rainbow.

I edited that post by the way just so you're aware.

God used symbolism.  Man is not supposed to use symbolism as a way to justify that any wrong thing he did is right just because... muh numbers.

[Vort]

3 hours ago, Alex said:

I prefer to hold to a theory than to hold to no theory- better to have something in one's mind than to have nothing / book burning.

I prefer the opposite. When we are ignorant in an area, in general I much prefer an honest "we do not know" to any sort of theoretical "here's what I think." The latter is almost always wrong, and it is better to hold no opinion than a wrong opinion.

[Vort]

3 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I'll PM you.  It's too hot in here already and I don't need to be burned at the stake yet...

But JJ,  the point is, do we know or do we not know? It can't be both. You claim we know, then you claim you believe the proclamation that we don't know. This is a purely binary choice. Which is it? Do we know, or don't we?

[mordorbund]

3 minutes ago, Vort said:

I prefer the opposite. When we are ignorant in an area, in general I much prefer an honest "we do not know" to any sort of theoretical "here's what I think." The latter is almost always wrong, and it is better to hold no opinion than a wrong opinion.

Then what can you write about in your blogs?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Vort said:

But JJ,  the point is, do we know or do we not know? It can't be both. You claim we know, then you claim you believe the proclamation that we don't know. This is a purely binary choice. Which is it? Do we know, or don't we?

He's the king of non-answers and the opinion with no position.

[zil]

15 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

Then what can you write about in your blogs?

Mommies?

[zil]

9 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

He's the king of non-answers and the opinion with no position.

I always wondered what was in all those TL;DRs.

[Alex]

4 hours ago, anatess2 said:

God used symbolism.  Man is not supposed to use symbolism as a way to justify that any wrong thing he did is right just because... muh numbers.

Exactly.

[Alex]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

I prefer the opposite. When we are ignorant in an area, in general I much prefer an honest "we do not know" to any sort of theoretical "here's what I think." The latter is almost always wrong, and it is better to hold no opinion than a wrong opinion.

“If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it be all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag. Give the people contests they win by remembering the words to more popular songs or the names of state capitals or how much corn Iowa grew last year. Cram them full of noncombustible data, chock them so damned full of 'facts' they feel stuffed, but absolutely 'brilliant' with information. Then they'll feel they're thinking, they'll get a sense of motion without moving. And they'll be happy, because facts of that sort don't change.”
― Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

 

Or even better. From the prophet himself:

'I regret the ignorance of this people—how it floods my heart with sorrow to see so many Elders of Israel who wish everybody to come to their standard and be measured by their measure. Every man must be just so long, to fit their iron bedstead, or be cut off to the right length: if too short, he must be stretched, to fill the requirement. If they see an erring brother or sister, whose course does not comport with their particular ideas of things, they conclude at once that he or she cannot be a Saint, and withdraw their fellowship, concluding that, if they are in the path of truth, others must have precisely their weight and dimensions. The ignorance I see, in this particular, among this great people is lamentable. Let us not narrow ourselves up; for the world, with all its variety of useful information and its rich hoard of hidden treasure, is before us; and eternity, with all its sparkling intelligence, lofty aspirations, and unspeakable glories, is before us, and ready to aid us in the scale of advancement and every useful improvement.'
--Brigham Young, March 4, 1860, JD 8:9

 

Wow, what poignant words from Brigham.

[JohnsonJones]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

But JJ,  the point is, do we know or do we not know? It can't be both. You claim we know, then you claim you believe the proclamation that we don't know. This is a purely binary choice. Which is it? Do we know, or don't we?

As I've repeatedly stated, we DO know.  I have not stated anything different.  However, as it is controversial and can bring all sorts of disagreements and other things, I think it best to simply point people to LDS church links.  These are NOT one and the same thing.  My answer is we do know.  However, my action is to not discuss it in detail in this thread currently.  Instead, it is to simply point people to the LDS church links regarding the subjects and let them read that.

Edited December 15, 2017 by JohnsonJones

[Alex]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

But JJ,  the point is, do we know or do we not know? It can't be both. You claim we know, then you claim you believe the proclamation that we don't know. This is a purely binary choice. Which is it? Do we know, or don't we?

A chiasmus for you:

 

Wow, two competing perspectives at once.

Now you're faced with a choice-  a choice to think or a choice not to think.

The resources are there and many (not all) are held by the church. Are you going to ignore those resources?

Much easier to let others think for you- the choice not to think is common.

Woe, to those who willfully make no choice.

[mordorbund]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

I prefer the opposite. When we are ignorant in an area, in general I much prefer an honest "we do not know" to any sort of theoretical "here's what I think." The latter is almost always wrong, and it is better to hold no opinion than a wrong opinion.

12 minutes ago, Alex said:

“If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it be all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag. Give the people contests they win by remembering the words to more popular songs or the names of state capitals or how much corn Iowa grew last year. Cram them full of noncombustible data, chock them so damned full of 'facts' they feel stuffed, but absolutely 'brilliant' with information. Then they'll feel they're thinking, they'll get a sense of motion without moving. And they'll be happy, because facts of that sort don't change.”
― Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

 

 

Did @Vort say not to think about it? Did he say pretend there is no issue? If not, I'm not seeing the relevance of this quote. Or are you saying that you're so stuffed with information that you think you're brilliant?

 

Quote

Or even better. From the prophet himself:

'I regret the ignorance of this people—how it floods my heart with sorrow to see so many Elders of Israel who wish everybody to come to their standard and be measured by their measure. Every man must be just so long, to fit their iron bedstead, or be cut off to the right length: if too short, he must be stretched, to fill the requirement. If they see an erring brother or sister, whose course does not comport with their particular ideas of things, they conclude at once that he or she cannot be a Saint, and withdraw their fellowship, concluding that, if they are in the path of truth, others must have precisely their weight and dimensions. The ignorance I see, in this particular, among this great people is lamentable. Let us not narrow ourselves up; for the world, with all its variety of useful information and its rich hoard of hidden treasure, is before us; and eternity, with all its sparkling intelligence, lofty aspirations, and unspeakable glories, is before us, and ready to aid us in the scale of advancement and every useful improvement.'
--Brigham Young, March 4, 1860, JD 8:9

 

Wow, what poignant words from Brigham.

 

Did Vort conclude that you cannot be a Saint? Did he withdraw fellowship? I'm having a hard time seeing the relevance of this quote, unless you're using it to reflect on how you've narrowed yourself with your pet theory instead of leaving yourself open to eternity with its sparkling intelligence in matters unrevealed.

[Alex]

14 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

 

Did @Vort say not to think about it? Did he say pretend there is no issue? If not, I'm not seeing the relevance of this quote. Or are you saying that you're so stuffed with information that you think you're brilliant?

 

 

Did Vort conclude that you cannot be a Saint? Did he withdraw fellowship? I'm having a hard time seeing the relevance of this quote, unless you're using it to reflect on how you've narrowed yourself with your pet theory instead of leaving yourself open to eternity with its sparkling intelligence in matters unrevealed.

Firstly, is vort a he, a she, an it or a sock puppet?

?

Edited December 16, 2017 by Alex
added another question mark

[mordorbund]

10 minutes ago, Alex said:

Firstly, is vort a he, a she, an it or a sock puppet?

Vort's profile page identifies him as male in the Seattle area. 

[Alex]

Just now, mordorbund said:

Vort's profile page identifies him as male in the Seattle area. 

Ahh, so that's settled then.

 

My profile page has a pic of cookie monster holding a knife, therefore I am cookie monster, using your logic.

[mordorbund]

7 minutes ago, Alex said:

Ahh, so that's settled then.

 

My profile page has a pic of cookie monster holding a knife, therefore I am cookie monster, using your logic.

Now that that's out of your system, would you care to go on to "secondly..."?

[Alex]

2 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

Now that that's out of your system, would you care to go on to "secondly..."?

Hmmmmm, no.

Seeing as how you accept whatever vort says without a doubt, I believe continuing this discussion with you is kind of pointless. Activate that mind of yours and I shall engage.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, Alex said:

Hmmmmm, no.

Seeing as how you accept whatever vort says without a doubt, I believe continuing this discussion with you is kind of pointless. Activate that mind of yours and I shall engage.

You've alienated virtually everyone with your comments. Well done. 

[Alex]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

You've alienated virtually everyone with your comments. Well done. 

Cheers.  

I would dance to the tunes played by the sock puppets here but meh, they play out of tune.

 

 

 

Would you like another chiasmus?

 

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Alex said:

Cheers.  

I would dance to the tunes played by the sock puppets here but meh, they play out of tune.

 

 

 

Would you like another chiasmus?

 

I feel sorry for you because you are obviously very intelligent and you don't need to act this way. I get it, I used to be the same way. Hopefully you'll grow out of it.

[Alex]

1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

I feel sorry for you because you are obviously very intelligent and you don't need to act this way. I get it, I used to be the same way. Hopefully you'll grow out of it.

Save your pity for those who need it this Christmas.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, Alex said:

Save your pity for those who need it this Christmas.

Too late. You already have it. You have my prayers too. 

[Alex]

Just now, MormonGator said:

Too late. You already have it. You have my prayers too. 

Well, seeing as you're praying for me, I want a talking Cat in the Hat for Christmas. Its mouth has to move when it plays all the classics- fox in socks, green eggs and ham, horton etc etc.

 

[Just_A_Guy]

Random factoid:  there’s a town in England called “Pity Me”.

[Alex]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Random factoid:  there’s a town in England called “Pity Me”.

Yeah, there's one in Wales called Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.

 

apparently the residents' legendary bowel movements block the pipes as well.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Alex
added a plural apostrophe because, umm, cleanliness is next to Godliness