We Are In The Telestial Kingdom Now, Proof By Contradiction

[Rob Osborn]

50 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Publish a book on your beliefs. Try it out. See what happens.

Until then...going into ignore mode. Good bye.

Good riddence.

[The Folk Prophet]

6 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Good riddence.

Did you think that meant I was leaving?

Oh....ho ho hoho....no no no.

[Rob Osborn]

31 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Did you think that meant I was leaving?

Oh....ho ho hoho....no no no.

Wait a min...is your name Chucky?

[Anddenex]

On 4/12/2018 at 9:48 AM, person0 said:

A few sincere questions for everyone:

Do most people believe that the lower kingdoms will actually be located on different planets other than this earth?  (I have generally thought this to be the case in the past)  If so, where will those planets come from? Mars?  If not, how would a telestial body be able to physically abide the presence of a celestial earth?  And how would the Kingdoms be organized all onto one planet?

As of right now, I am in the belief that as the Celestial kingdom is going to be a known planet I would think the other two kingdoms were also existing planets.

Within other thoughts, the Father says there are many mansions, and if a Kingdom, kingdoms have different subsets (so to speak). One could conclude Celestial beings have access to everything within the kingdom, while other beings only have access to specific regions; BUT how would you control this and if agency is necessary preventing telestial and terrestrial from seeing the Father when they inhabit same celestial body?

All fun to think about though

[Vort]

@Rob Osborn, I had a realization today while thinking about elements of this thread. I understood several ideas that you have been teaching that I think this thread covers, and I want to run them by you to see if my understanding is correct.

• Is it your belief that we are now, literally, living in the telestial kingdom? Not "a telestial place" or "the figurative telestial kingdom" or "a place that's similar to or like or comparable to the telestial kingdom", but The Telestial Kingdom, as described in Section 76.
• If so, are we here because we were judged (by God, by ourselves, by our circumstances, or whatever) to merit this inheritance?
• Has our premortal life (or lives) included one or more mortal experiences similar to this one?
• Considering the eventual celestial glory and exaltation that you envision for all those who are not lost: Is this glory achieved through multiple mortal lives or probations such as we are experiencing right now?

In short: Do you subscribe to the idea that has sometimes been called the "Theory of Multiple Mortal Probations"?

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

@Rob Osborn, I had a realization today while thinking about elements of this thread. I understood several ideas that you have been teaching that I think this thread covers, and I want to run them by you to see if my understanding is correct.

• Is it your belief that we are now, literally, living in the telestial kingdom? Not "a telestial place" or "the figurative telestial kingdom" or "a place that's similar to or like or comparable to the telestial kingdom", but The Telestial Kingdom, as described in Section 76.
• If so, are we here because we were judged (by God, by ourselves, by our circumstances, or whatever) to merit this inheritance?
• Has our premortal life (or lives) included one or more mortal experiences similar to this one?
• Considering the eventual celestial glory and exaltation that you envision for all those who are not lost: Is this glory achieved through multiple mortal lives or probations such as we are experiencing right now?

In short: Do you subscribe to the idea that has sometimes been called the "Theory of Multiple Mortal Probations"?

I believe we are in "the telestial kingdom" as mentioned and seen in section 76. 

No, I dont subscribe to the mortal probations model.

[MarginOfError]

Okay. I'll bite. 

The notion that the scriptures teach us much of anything about the physical location of any degree of glory is silly. 

According to Hebrew tradition, God created the earth, placed Adam and Eve eastward in Eden, and expelled them further to the East after the Fall. The whole of the Tabernacle of the Congregation was built on that sybolism; the door was to the east, the Holy of Holies was to the west. As you approached the Holy of Holies, you came closer and closer to returning to God's presence. 

That symbolism wasn't lost on the Hebrews, even when the Gospels were written. The details of the wise men traveling from the East play on that symbolism, with the wise men returning to the presence of God, both literally and figuratively.

This presented a problem for Paul, however, as he was teaching the Greeks of a pagan tradition. They weren't as familiar with the Hebrew traditions and weren't as educated as the Jews (thanks to the bar mitzvah, the Jews enjoyed one of the highest literacy rates in the ancient world). 

So Paul coopted pagan ideas to teach the same concept. Bodies celestial was a reference to living among the gods, or returning to God's presence. It was never intended to be a literal description of the location of heaven. That nuance was lost with time, and the interpretation of distinct planets in our universe being a physical location for any kingdom is very likely a form of ethnocentrism, not revelation.

[Rob Osborn]

9 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

Okay. I'll bite. 

The notion that the scriptures teach us much of anything about the physical location of any degree of glory is silly. 

According to Hebrew tradition, God created the earth, placed Adam and Eve eastward in Eden, and expelled them further to the East after the Fall. The whole of the Tabernacle of the Congregation was built on that sybolism; the door was to the east, the Holy of Holies was to the west. As you approached the Holy of Holies, you came closer and closer to returning to God's presence. 

That symbolism wasn't lost on the Hebrews, even when the Gospels were written. The details of the wise men traveling from the East play on that symbolism, with the wise men returning to the presence of God, both literally and figuratively.

This presented a problem for Paul, however, as he was teaching the Greeks of a pagan tradition. They weren't as familiar with the Hebrew traditions and weren't as educated as the Jews (thanks to the bar mitzvah, the Jews enjoyed one of the highest literacy rates in the ancient world). 

So Paul coopted pagan ideas to teach the same concept. Bodies celestial was a reference to living among the gods, or returning to God's presence. It was never intended to be a literal description of the location of heaven. That nuance was lost with time, and the interpretation of distinct planets in our universe being a physical location for any kingdom is very likely a form of ethnocentrism, not revelation.

Im curious to hear more as I have always thought the Pauls description of celestial and terrestrial bodies was in showing the difference between what is heavenly and eternal versus what is earthy and corrupt.