Justice Kennedy stepping down

[Sunday21]

On 6/28/2018 at 4:43 PM, Traveler said:

I am concerned that should the “left” loose both houses of congress, the white house and the supreme court (and the federal courts as well) – that they may come to believe that the only way for them to be heard would be civil war.

 

The Traveler

Introduce the draft?

[Sunday21]

5 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Why would that concern you?  It's not exactly like the more radically left you get, the better you get at shooting...

Exactly! Who do you think would win a shootout? Me or  @mirkwood ? 

[mirkwood]

1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

Exactly! Who do you think would win a shootout? Me or  @mirkwood ? 

Well @NeuroTypical the lady asked you a question.

[Just_A_Guy]

On 6/27/2018 at 5:07 PM, Vort said:

I wish Sotomayor would retire. What an embarrassment. And Ginsburg, only slightly less of an embarrassment, and even more full of herself.

 

On 6/28/2018 at 2:33 PM, Still_Small_Voice said:

I would like to see Ruth Bader Ginsburg retire.  I think she has anomosity towards the United States Constitution from what I have heard her say.

Ginsburg, by most accounts, is in better physical shape than I am; and I’m under 40.  See, e.g., https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/02/rbg-ruth-bader-ginsburg-workout-personal-trainer-elena-kagan-stephen-breyer-214821

Edited June 30, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest MormonGator]

33 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

 

Ginsburg, by most accounts, is in better physical shape than I am; and I’m under 70. 

fixed it for you. 

[NeuroTypical]

2 hours ago, mirkwood said:

3 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Exactly! Who do you think would win a shootout? Me or  @mirkwood ? 

Well @NeuroTypical the lady asked you a question.

Heh.  This is some bizarre online version of "does this dress make me look fat", isn't it?

[RTaylor]

7 hours ago, Godless said:

From my side of the aisle, I see an alarming number of parallels between what you just described and the current state of the GOP.

Support from a minority of the population? Check. It's an undisputed fact that Trump lost the popular vote by no small margin. Meanwhile, gerrymandering gives a disproportionate red tilt to our congressional elections. 

Violent rhetoric against the opposition? Check. Yes, the left is guilty of this as well, though arguably to a lesser extent. It becomes more of a concern to me when it comes from the people currently in power. That's probably the most alarming difference I see between Trump's America and Obama's. Trump won the election, the GOP holds both houses of Congress, yet the GOP is still brazenly lashing out against anything and anyone that doesn't fit the Trump agenda. There's a victim complex in America's ruling party that reads very dangerously like the beginnings of American fascism. 

Undermining law enforcement agencies? Check. Trump has damaged the public's faith in institutions like the FBI and DoJ to the extent that he could, if the need arose, break every rule of law and check on power that our Constitution has in place and the GOP would cheer him for it. As for ICE, they appear to be taking on the role of Gestapo with Trump's attempt to remove due process from our immigration policy. 

You see Nazis on the left, I see Nazis on the right. One side currently controls every sector of our government but one, the Supreme Court. And they may get that soon too. 

How you can be so blind to the lefts actual violence and intolerance?

Trumps a hammer and all the scum in Washington DC is the nail. Republican and Democrats alike. Love to see them squirm.

Like the Nazis the election was rigged for Hillary to win. She didn't because Trump had the real numbers that even cheating couldn't overcome.

The left becomes more and more rabid. Politics won't be the end of this nation. When the majority turned from God our fate was sealed.

The time of the gentile will shortly come to a close.

[Sunday21]

28 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Heh.  This is some bizarre online version of "does this dress make me look fat", isn't it?

Silence is frequently the best response but at least you know I won’t shoot you! @mirkwood on the other hand...

[Vort]

8 hours ago, Godless said:

It's an undisputed fact that Trump lost the popular vote by no small margin.

Meaningless. Had the popular vote been deciding the race, many people like myself would have held our noses and voted for Trump.

[Sunday21]

3 hours ago, Vort said:

Meaningless. Had the popular vote been deciding the race, many people like myself would have held our noses and voted for Trump.

Despite the prophet’s request to vote for someone whose moral values reflect your own? I assumed when I saw the prophet’s message that a suitable candidate existed.

[Guest MormonGator]

6 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Despite the prophet’s request to vote for someone whose moral values reflect your own? I assumed when I saw the prophet’s message that a suitable candidate existed.

You'll never agree with a politicians personal life all the time they are human after all. In the real world you have to be pragmatic. I can assure you that Christian conservatives didn't agree with Trumps personal life but they voted for him because he stood for the same values they did in the political world. And no, I didn't vote for him, but not because of his personal life. That's irrelevant to me.  

Edited June 30, 2018 by MormonGator

[unixknight]

On 6/30/2018 at 12:02 AM, Sunday21 said:

Silence is frequently the best response but at least you know I won’t shoot you! @mirkwood on the other hand...

This is when we find out that the joke is inverted by @Sunday21 having been a Marine Force Recon sniper...

[unixknight]

On 6/29/2018 at 4:26 PM, Godless said:

From my side of the aisle, I see an alarming number of parallels between what you just described and the current state of the GOP.

Support from a minority of the population? Check. It's an undisputed fact that Trump lost the popular vote by no small margin. Meanwhile, gerrymandering gives a disproportionate red tilt to our congressional elections. 

Violent rhetoric against the opposition? Check. Yes, the left is guilty of this as well, though arguably to a lesser extent. It becomes more of a concern to me when it comes from the people currently in power. That's probably the most alarming difference I see between Trump's America and Obama's. Trump won the election, the GOP holds both houses of Congress, yet the GOP is still brazenly lashing out against anything and anyone that doesn't fit the Trump agenda. There's a victim complex in America's ruling party that reads very dangerously like the beginnings of American fascism. 

Undermining law enforcement agencies? Check. Trump has damaged the public's faith in institutions like the FBI and DoJ to the extent that he could, if the need arose, break every rule of law and check on power that our Constitution has in place and the GOP would cheer him for it. As for ICE, they appear to be taking on the role of Gestapo with Trump's attempt to remove due process from our immigration policy. 

You see Nazis on the left, I see Nazis on the right. One side currently controls every sector of our government but one, the Supreme Court. And they may get that soon too. 

Trump lost the popular vote: True, but only relevant to your point if we had 100% voter turnout.  His rising popular support and the shifts in public discussion suggest that there may well be a majority on his side.  A lot of former "never Trumpers" have warmed to him and moderates aren't buying the Russia narrative.

Gerrymandering benefits both parties.  Even John Oliver admitted that on his show.

The notion that violent rhetoric is more the domain of the right than the left is absurd.  Antifa is now k own to be a full-on terrorist group, and they ain't conservative.  Radicals in BLM call for the murder of cops and whites.  "Punching Nazis" is an activity advocated by leftists to use violence to silence any right wing voice, and it's leftists who are declaring words to be violence now in order to justify their violence by calling it "self defense."  

The current President is a Republican.  If violence were the way of Conservatives, we wouldn't be hearing all this violent rhetoric from the left because they'd have been silenced by Conservstive power by now.  The foolishness of leftist violence is only an issue at all because of conservatives' patience.

Since when is it the political right that's againt law enforcement agencies?   Was it a Republican or a Democrat President who undermined ICE  and the border patrol by not allowing them to do their jobs?  How many officer's lives were lost because of Fast &  Furious?  And then Trump calls for a legislative solution to the border detainee problem and for that you compare ICE to the Gestapo?

Wow.......

Yes, we see the National Socialist party as being on the left.  Still not stooping to call every left-winger a Nazi though.

Edited July 2, 2018 by unixknight

[Traveler]

On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 1:26 PM, Godless said:

From my side of the aisle, I see an alarming number of parallels between what you just described and the current state of the GOP.

Support from a minority of the population? Check. It's an undisputed fact that Trump lost the popular vote by no small margin. Meanwhile, gerrymandering gives a disproportionate red tilt to our congressional elections. 

Violent rhetoric against the opposition? Check. Yes, the left is guilty of this as well, though arguably to a lesser extent. It becomes more of a concern to me when it comes from the people currently in power. That's probably the most alarming difference I see between Trump's America and Obama's. Trump won the election, the GOP holds both houses of Congress, yet the GOP is still brazenly lashing out against anything and anyone that doesn't fit the Trump agenda. There's a victim complex in America's ruling party that reads very dangerously like the beginnings of American fascism. 

Undermining law enforcement agencies? Check. Trump has damaged the public's faith in institutions like the FBI and DoJ to the extent that he could, if the need arose, break every rule of law and check on power that our Constitution has in place and the GOP would cheer him for it. As for ICE, they appear to be taking on the role of Gestapo with Trump's attempt to remove due process from our immigration policy.  

You see Nazis on the left, I see Nazis on the right. One side currently controls every sector of our government but one, the Supreme Court. And they may get that soon too. 

 

When I first read this post – I thought to debate the issue.  The problem is there are threads of truths.  But rather than debate I would point to example to demonstrate first the problem.  Let us look at this statement:

Quote

Trump has damaged the public's faith in institutions like the FBI and DoJ to the extent that he could, if the need arose, break every rule of law and check on power that our Constitution has in place and the GOP would cheer him for it. As for ICE, they appear to be taking on the role of Gestapo with Trump's attempt to remove due process from our immigration policy. 

 

Rather than debate the issue as true or not; I would point out the rhetoric of blaming public loss of faith in institutions – as though there is no concern over bias within the FBI and DOJ.  Then in the following sentence doing exactly to ICE what was stated as accusation of abuse to damage  “public faith” in a government institution.

What I would point out is that there is a lot of propaganda that is dividing our country into two camps.  I say propaganda because the rhetoric is biased on both sides.  For example – Black Lives Matter (an institution imbedded in the Democratic party) is trying to inform the public of bias within local jurisdictions of law enforcement.   There is enough evidence that we should indeed be concerned.  On the other hand the Republican party is trying to inform the public of bias within the federal institution of the FBI, DOJ and the IRS.  Again there is enough evidence that citizens should indeed be concerned.  But what is happening?   ---- The evils among our political allies are ignored and our enemies are blamed for evils among them that we gladly overlook among our political allies.

 

But there is an new dimension – not so new historically but new to a reasonable society.  This is the dimension of violence.  It would seem that the wisdom of Gandhi (and others) has been forgotten and we have become to trust violence as the means; perhaps the best in our hearts and minds, to resolve political differences.

 

The Traveler

Edited July 3, 2018 by Traveler

[Just_A_Guy]

Re gerrymandering:  I wish I could remember the details; but apparently it’s neatly impossible to draw out districts that allow for representation of rural areas that don’t also over-represent those rural areas.  Since rural areas trend red, just the fact of having geographically-based congressional districts is inherently going to favor Republicans to some degree.

Partisanship aside, I’m not sure that’s a bad thing.  The desires of five million city-dwellers have little bearing on how five hundred people living two hundred miles away live their day-to-day lives.  Regional differences should be respected to some degree; and Plumas County, California is not a subordinate colony of San Francisco—no matter how much San Franciscans may wish it to be so.  

Edited July 3, 2018 by Just_A_Guy