Convert in a dark time needs advice on hirarchy

[inquisitive]

Hi all,

My first post, feel like I have been wearing out some of the sisters that were asked to help me in a very dark time. Question, people will tell you all kinds of things and I don't have a lot of people i am close to in the church. I am trying to be very careful not understanding church culture or if its just me. When its time to report on one another or keep someting private in discussion. That said, its very hard for me to grasp concept of "tell your biship, go to your biship" i never reported anything to a higer up, its just different. I also don't want to wear him out.

He has a lot on his plate, has taken the time to give some sisters me as a project but its not going to work. there is so much deep heavy things, and I really don't think i am ever going to get started again. The real question is this, when do we go to the stake president? I have some serious personal questions about the church NOT reporting or telling on anyone, my personal questions that I think people are not authorized to tell me or might not know. I really need these questions answered for me to understand church. When is it ok to see a stake President or is that an over reach?

Edited July 20, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[Guest MormonGator]

From one convert to another-

LDS culture can be confusing sometimes, and if we don't have someone we can talk to, it's easy to make a faux pas or say something a lifelong member will consider inappropriate. For all the tolerance, love and joy lifelong members have, I wish they understood this a bit more. 

I used to talk to my Stake President all the time-the last ward I attended was also his ward. If I were you, I'd address your concerns with him. Sure, he has a lot on his plate, but his fundamental job is pastoral care, in my view. 

Good luck. Praying for you. 

[zil]

Welcome, @inquisitive!  I'm sorry for whatever struggles you're having.  If you're comfortable with it, feel free to ask questions here - particularly cultural / procedural questions - no one here will be upset if you ask a "beginner" question or don't phrase things in the usual way (if there even is a usual way).

TL;DR: it's just fine to go see the stake president if you wish or feel it necessary.

Long version:

1 hour ago, inquisitive said:

When is it ok to see a stake President or is that an over reach?

As to this question...  Both the bishop and the stake president are there to minister to the people in their respective stewardships.  Both are busy, but that's no reason not to see them.  If you need spiritual guidance or confession or something similar that falls within their stewardship, go see them!  Usually, the bishop is the person you should go see.  But if the bishop is the problem (or a problem) for some reason, then definitely go see the stake president.

If the problem is as simple as changing which sisters (not missionaries, but just sisters in your ward) are assigned to minister to you, you can also contact the Relief Society President (RSP).  Explain to her any conflicts or special needs or concerns you have, and she can figure out who would be good to meet your needs, and make recommendations to the bishop.  The stake president can tell the bishop to make changes in this area (or, I suppose, go straight to the RSP), but those changes have to go through the bishop and RSP in your ward (unless there's seriously something wrong and people need to be released ASAP or something).

If you're talking about the sister missionaries (the ones with name tags), that's outside the control of the bishop and stake president, but telling them of issues is an easy way to get a message back to the mission president who can then adjust assignments.

Sorry if none of that was helpful - it was hard for me to figure out specifics from your message (which is fine).

[inquisitive]

Thanks for taking the time. As a convert who came in with problems I don’t know what’s appropriate what’s an over reach or what will offend someone. It seems like I am offended a lot lately as well, when I or we get anxious we need people not just prayer 

sometimes I think that I came in the church to late that people cN only change so much and it’s progress not perfection. God to me is the ultimate authority I don’t think we understand each other and the situation I am in I am never going to get out of. 

I know with God all things are possible, I don’t think that certain ppl in the church trust newcomers and I find that offensive. I don’t need to be watched constantly.its really annoying. I also know why no one ever complains or talks they wouldn’t be obedient.i just want my life back. I don’t know you make a suggestion like I did and change isn’t on the menu, it will fall on deaf ears or judged

it would be nice to hear ppl laugh and smile and not be so heavy and serious. I feel like I lost myself somewhere and  I miss my authentic me. Learning all the things I am not allowed to be. I miss the real world.

thanks for letting me vent God will never leave us or forsake us. It’s people that are messed up.

[Guest MormonGator]

29 minutes ago, inquisitive said:

God will never leave us or forsake us. 

Amen to that. 

[Jane_Doe]

42 minutes ago, inquisitive said:

Thanks for taking the time.

We're happy to help.  Culture is hard to get, so asking questions is great.  

42 minutes ago, inquisitive said:

sometimes I think that I came in the church to late that people cN only change so much and it’s progress not perfection. God to me is the ultimate authority I don’t think we understand each other and the situation I am in I am never going to get out of. 

I know with God all things are possible, I don’t think that certain ppl in the church trust newcomers and I find that offensive. I don’t need to be watched constantly.its really annoying. I also know why no one ever complains or talks they wouldn’t be obedient.i just want my life back. I don’t know you make a suggestion like I did and change isn’t on the menu, it will fall on deaf ears or judged

it would be nice to hear ppl laugh and smile and not be so heavy and serious. I feel like I lost myself somewhere and  I miss my authentic me. Learning all the things I am not allowed to be. I miss the real world.

thanks for letting me vent God will never leave us or forsake us. It’s people that are messed up.

Change is a gradual thing most of the time.  Some times it's sudden and dramatic, but most of the time it's gradual.  Regardless of the speed it's also enabled and powered by Christ.  And no, God never forsakes us.  

As to what needs to change: not everything about a person needs to change when you join the church- you're still you.  Yes, we repent of sins and live the Gospel (with hope, charity, etc).  But for the many things in this world that are not sinful, continue to enjoy-- in fact enjoy even fuller knowing Christ is your Savior.  You don't need to be a clone of culture at all-- be YOU.

For me, I'm a nerdy scientist who does Soduku in Church (it helps me listen).  I spend my evenings playing D&D.  I only own one skirt, and no make up (rather atypical for any American female).  I love to sing, despite my completely lack of skill.  I think in analogies and come up with all sorts of docky metaphors.  I like Linkin Park.  I do jigsaw puzzles when I'm stressed.  None of this is "mormon culture", but is is part of the kingdom of God that lives in me.  Here is one of my favorite Apostle quotes:

"Remember it is by divine design that not all the voices in God’s choir are the same. It takes variety—sopranos and altos, baritones and basses—to make rich music. To borrow a line quoted in the cheery correspondence of two remarkable Latter-day Saint women, “All God’s critters got a place in the choir.”⁶ When we disparage our uniqueness or try to conform to fictitious stereotypes... we lose the richness of tone and timbre that God intended when He created a world of diversity... Our Heavenly Father delights to have us sing in our own voice, not someone else’s. Believe in yourself, and believe in Him. Don’t demean your worth or denigrate your contribution. Above all, don’t abandon your role in the chorus. Why? Because you are unique; you are irreplaceable. The loss of even one voice diminishes every other singer in this great mortal choir of ours, including the loss of those who feel they are on the margins of society or the margins of the Church." https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/04/songs-sung-and-unsung?lang=eng&country=br   (I totally recommend you listen/read the whole thing, not just this abridge part, cause it's awesome).

Edited July 21, 2018 by Jane_Doe

[Sunday21]

@inquisitive Welcome! We are happy to answer culture questions on this forum. In my area, you can only speak to the stake president in specific circumstances for example if you need a temple recommend. I imagine that this varies from stake president to stake president.

Good luck! Hope to hear from you agAin! 

[inquisitive]

Hi there,

Well thank you I must say the ending was an unexpected surprise. Thanks for sharing about you,  yes we are very different, I have a lot of clothes (but no money and losing my apt of 17 years) I am losing everything. Did I enjoy shopping, yes it made me feel good, dressing and fashion again was always fun. 

 

I never learneed the gospel principles, I never learned anything other then living in the moment and taking care of myself since I was a teenager I have no family. Trying to fit into a culture with no family that is all family is also very hard, Asking for help in this situation even harder. Its a lot to put on someone and the whole thing was a terriable injustice. Thats something else how do you forgive when you felt very wronged and lost most of your life, now in your end last quarter have to start over with  nothing. I can't determine if God is calling me home, or if Satan just has a grasp. There are no prayers that can right this wrong. 

Thats another thing, I don't think I can every forgive ALL THIS and its my problem not the churches. I know the church will either not say anything or I hope not the blame game, like everything goes wrong sometimes you are the victim, its not always something you did wrong. 

 

Well thanks for that last paragraph its positive and kind, I wish "things" didn't mean that much to me but feeling like my life is being as discarded as I am, is well, such a throw away. 

Peace be with you, thanks again. 

[Jane_Doe]

@inquisitive, I'm sorry to hear about your hard times.  

That same talk I linked earlier talks about hard times: how there is a lot of economic inequality in the world, and it's not right, and makes makes things hard.  I would really recommend it.  

[inquisitive]

Hi Jane,

I didn't see that, I did see i posted an ad for a possible live in situation and every nut in the world has gotten back to me with "ideas" 

Yep, all my life stopped regarding $$ and trying to "change" for the church, now i will be homeless and broke but a place in the higher kingdom, (shacking head)

more scared to live right now then die.Who thinks of this stuff? No disrespect but what good is the next life when we can't feed ourselves here. 

 

Back to my original question should i ask to speak to a higher person in my ward, never heard back from my biship.What is the protocol to ask for an apt with 

a ward Pres I asked the biship, everything answer is ask the biship. 

I feel like a child in school, something so wrong is going with this ask the biship, how much can one person who gets a calling do? They have jobs, and kids and wives and

lives of their own. 

I am beginning to believe "the church" just wants to get me out of their hair there is only so much they can do; I don't see this ending well at all. It would help if eveyone 

church included was honest with what is going on. I feel so stuck at the end of the day, I came in the church to late in my life. Not a happy Mormon. Is that ok to say?  Everyone is gone its August they are all out of town or in Utah, I get it its summertime. Things just seem so strange, it literally feels like my entire support system has ghosted me. 

I am so tired of hearing be strong when no one else is. I think it should be replaced with try not to be angry, right now you have every right to be furious. 

Thats how i feel just saying. 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2018 by inquisitive

[Jane_Doe]

46 minutes ago, inquisitive said:

Back to my original question should i ask to speak to a higher person in my ward, never heard back from my biship.What is the protocol to ask for an apt with 

a ward Pres I asked the biship, everything answer is ask the biship. 

That's because the default first person to ask at the local issue is the Bishop.  If you never heard back via email, I would suspect your email got lost-- which does happen, Bishops are human (I myself have to re-email mine this morning for that reason).  Just send him a nice reminder.

For 99% of things, you'd only go to the Stake President after getting a referral from the Bishop that this is bigger than the bishop's scope.

 

If you'd like to say what general type of thing you got going on, maybe we could refer you to someone more specific.  For example: if you're having an issue about kid's in Primary classes, the person over that is the Primary President (who works under the Bishop).    Your local missionaries also exist (among other reasons) to help recent converts figure things out and help navigate stuff. 

46 minutes ago, inquisitive said:

I feel like a child in school, something so wrong is going with this ask the biship, how much can one person who gets a calling do? They have jobs, and kids and wives and

lives of their own. 

Yes Bishops are busy, as are other people.  But that doesn't mean you're not worth talking to and answering your questions.

46 minutes ago, inquisitive said:

I am beginning to believe "the church" just wants to get me out of their hair there is only so much they can do; I don't see this ending well at all. It would help if eveyone 

church included was honest with what is going on.

We're trying to help you.

[MaryJehanne]

22 hours ago, inquisitive said:

Hi there,

Well thank you I must say the ending was an unexpected surprise. Thanks for sharing about you,  yes we are very different, I have a lot of clothes (but no money and losing my apt of 17 years) I am losing everything. Did I enjoy shopping, yes it made me feel good, dressing and fashion again was always fun. 

 

I never learneed the gospel principles, I never learned anything other then living in the moment and taking care of myself since I was a teenager I have no family. Trying to fit into a culture with no family that is all family is also very hard, Asking for help in this situation even harder. Its a lot to put on someone and the whole thing was a terriable injustice. Thats something else how do you forgive when you felt very wronged and lost most of your life, now in your end last quarter have to start over with  nothing. I can't determine if God is calling me home, or if Satan just has a grasp. There are no prayers that can right this wrong. 

Thats another thing, I don't think I can every forgive ALL THIS and its my problem not the churches. I know the church will either not say anything or I hope not the blame game, like everything goes wrong sometimes you are the victim, its not always something you did wrong. 

 

Well thanks for that last paragraph its positive and kind, I wish "things" didn't mean that much to me but feeling like my life is being as discarded as I am, is well, such a throw away. 

Peace be with you, thanks again. 

Hi, Inquisitive! I'm so sorry about your predicament. I wish there was some advice I could give you, but the best I can do is say a prayer to God and the Blessed Mother for you.

There are plenty of people who've grown up with bad family relationships (such as St. Clare of Assisi), were on their own from a young age (such as St. Gerolamo Emiliani), or lived a life devoid of virtue before converting (such as St. Augustine), who achieved a great level of holiness. You're certainly not alone. Although it's a difficult process, it's far from impossible!

It's hard to forgive when people have wronged you terribly. It's important to remember, though, that forgiving is not the same as excusing. Just because you forgive someone, it doesn't mean that what they did wasn't a big deal. To the contrary, the bigger the offense, the more value there is in your forgiveness. God wants you to forgive, because to forgive is to be loving. As He loves you, He wants you to forgive others, so they can know you are His and come from Him. It may take time for the wounds of your past to heal, but that doesn't mean you can't still forgive, even if the emotional sting still lingers.

Although it won't fix everything right off, try reading stories about people who've been through hard times and made it through, like the saints mentioned above.  For forgiveness, think of instances such as St. John Paul II, who was shot in an attempted assassination. He forgave the man, not because someone trying to murder him wasn't a big deal, but because He loved Christ and Christ loved through him. The man who tried to kill him, of course, was surprised at the Pope's ready and loving forgiveness and ended up converting. Here's an article with more stories of forgiveness, in case these help! https://catholicexchange.com/learning-forgive-saints

 

12 hours ago, inquisitive said:

Hi Jane,

I didn't see that, I did see i posted an ad for a possible live in situation and every nut in the world has gotten back to me with "ideas" 

Yep, all my life stopped regarding $$ and trying to "change" for the church, now i will be homeless and broke but a place in the higher kingdom, (shacking head)

more scared to live right now then die.Who thinks of this stuff? No disrespect but what good is the next life when we can't feed ourselves here. 

 

Back to my original question should i ask to speak to a higher person in my ward, never heard back from my biship.What is the protocol to ask for an apt with 

a ward Pres I asked the biship, everything answer is ask the biship. 

I feel like a child in school, something so wrong is going with this ask the biship, how much can one person who gets a calling do? They have jobs, and kids and wives and

lives of their own. 

I am beginning to believe "the church" just wants to get me out of their hair there is only so much they can do; I don't see this ending well at all. It would help if eveyone 

church included was honest with what is going on. I feel so stuck at the end of the day, I came in the church to late in my life. Not a happy Mormon. Is that ok to say?  Everyone is gone its August they are all out of town or in Utah, I get it its summertime. Things just seem so strange, it literally feels like my entire support system has ghosted me. 

I am so tired of hearing be strong when no one else is. I think it should be replaced with try not to be angry, right now you have every right to be furious. 

Thats how i feel just saying. 

 

 

Don't be afraid, Inquisitive; God sees you and loves you. He won't leave you. As is says in Matthew 6:25-33:

"“Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air; they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? And can any of you by worrying add a single hour to your span of life? And why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not clothed like one of these. But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear?’ For it is the Gentiles who strive for all these things; and indeed your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But strive first for the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well."

It's hard to have faith when things look bleak, but sometimes it's these difficult points in our lives where we're most able to grow in faith and love of God. Sometimes God provides opportunities like these so that we'll recognized what's important in life and so that we'll depend on Him. Maybe all He wants is you to ask Him for help, so that you'll learn to lean on Him even more than you already do. 

All sorts of crazy things can pop up in life, but just remember, this life is not the goal, it's the journey towards something. It's a relatively short period in your existence, and it's your chance to choose God, to know, love, and serve Him. Just remember that Christ Himself suffered on earth, even in smaller ways than the Passion, having to find food and shelter as he traveled, voluntarily giving up foods to fast in the desert, and undergoing temptations. If Our Lord suffered these things, then we should expect to suffer them too, because we're His followers. But know that if He is allowing something to happen, it can benefit you in some way, and He won't allow anything to befall you that's too difficult to conquer. 

 

God bless, Inquisitive!  I'll say a prayer for you in the name of Christ's Sacred Heart that He lift your troubles and bring you close to Him. May God grant you peace.

[person0]

@inquisitive,

Although most Stake Presidents are well versed, since Church positions have no direct correlation to knowledge, it is possible you would take your question to the Stake President and he would not know the answer, and would have to seek it out through study or elsewhere.  That said, as others have mentioned, you are free to reach out to him as you see fit to address personal questions and concerns.

I would recommend voicing your questions and concerns to a friend from your ward.  Unless it would involve a discussion related to past sins, in my experience, many questions that people think are deeply troubling tend to have a known and available answers.  Many people on this forum might even be able to address your sincere inquiries.

[inquisitive]

Dear MaryJehanne,

I read that post on forgiveness, its true, its anger at the powerlessness. Its anger at the injustice, its anger at the fact that I am never going to get back on my feet and

the church knows that. Its an implication that somehow I am not worthy or that I am not meek or that I am not humble in this awful crises. Its reminders that "the church" is only

volunteers ( a way of saying you are beginning to wear people down.) Its not understanding the culture. I repeat its not understanding the culture and when I make a mistake, have everyone report me. That's humiliating, like there is one adult in the room and its not me. Its being torn apart from the inside out, its the betrayal of  people that I trusted, Its the secrets and no one sees it but me. Its being in the worst possible situation and having someone compare their worthiness to mine. Its not feeling the love and spirit the way I should be. Its feeling manipulated instead of empowered and no one gets it. Its trying to hard to "get this new religion" and going backwards and feeling like part of the process it to break a person down. That's not God, that's man playing God. Its making me feel so devalued like I left my common sense at the door. Its being alone when everyone is from a huge family and probably never knows what its like to face homelessness with no money and no couch. Its having no love, its asking for a person just one person to be my beneficiary should I die ( YES ITS PAID FOR) and be told they will probably be out of town. Its feeling so persecuted.

Its saying its not about the money and ITS ALWAYS  about the money.  Its people pretending to understand when they are making millions. Its expecting a person to do the impossible, its knowing where the chips are going to fall and time is not on my side. Its the pain of knowing that there are people within the church that could easily exercise their authority and pick of a phone and make it a little easier and not doing it at all. Its playing dumb. Its watching myself die and knowing I have so much more value but will wind up dead or in the streets because there is a LESSON. There are not lessons at 65 you don't break a person at my age you kill them.

Thank you sister for the link to the real "saints" Paul has always given me strength, they are powers of example but I am a women and its not natural to be so alone. How can you be in a room and feel absolutely alone? you can when you don't understand the culture and probably never will. That's not a disrespectful comment its from the eyes of a convert. We come in hurting often then really are lost, there is a room full of people but we have no idea how anything works, and they have no idea how it looks to us.

Thanks for listening, its 2:00 AM and I just can't do this, its not about proving how strong you are, I did that a long time ago. This whole program you don't win, you play a game, that's not why I come to church, I come to hear the word of God. I came for fellowship. I guess this is the trade off. If I die tonight, the city state gets my things because I can't find someone or the person I had as a beneficiary lost contact. That's the only thing I care about now, is will I be buried with my Godmother.

[MaryJehanne]

21 hours ago, inquisitive said:

Dear MaryJehanne,

I read that post on forgiveness, its true, its anger at the powerlessness. Its anger at the injustice, its anger at the fact that I am never going to get back on my feet and

the church knows that. Its an implication that somehow I am not worthy or that I am not meek or that I am not humble in this awful crises. Its reminders that "the church" is only

volunteers ( a way of saying you are beginning to wear people down.) Its not understanding the culture. I repeat its not understanding the culture and when I make a mistake, have everyone report me. That's humiliating, like there is one adult in the room and its not me. Its being torn apart from the inside out, its the betrayal of  people that I trusted, Its the secrets and no one sees it but me. Its being in the worst possible situation and having someone compare their worthiness to mine. Its not feeling the love and spirit the way I should be. Its feeling manipulated instead of empowered and no one gets it. Its trying to hard to "get this new religion" and going backwards and feeling like part of the process it to break a person down. That's not God, that's man playing God. Its making me feel so devalued like I left my common sense at the door. Its being alone when everyone is from a huge family and probably never knows what its like to face homelessness with no money and no couch. Its having no love, its asking for a person just one person to be my beneficiary should I die ( YES ITS PAID FOR) and be told they will probably be out of town. Its feeling so persecuted.

Its saying its not about the money and ITS ALWAYS  about the money.  Its people pretending to understand when they are making millions. Its expecting a person to do the impossible, its knowing where the chips are going to fall and time is not on my side. Its the pain of knowing that there are people within the church that could easily exercise their authority and pick of a phone and make it a little easier and not doing it at all. Its playing dumb. Its watching myself die and knowing I have so much more value but will wind up dead or in the streets because there is a LESSON. There are not lessons at 65 you don't break a person at my age you kill them.

I wish I could offer some reassurance, Inquisitive, but I can't in this area, because I'm Catholic and don't believe in the LDS Church. I can say, though, not to worry about people thinking you're not meek or humble... use that as an opportunity to have something to be more meek and humble about! I think often times those that bluntly insist others ought to be more humble are those that have trouble with humility themselves. 

It makes sense that you're angry at injustice; that's a natural response. The key is to not allow it to control you or allow it to grow to become too much.

That's a little odd, having someone report you... I don't have that as a rule in my religion.

If someone is comparing their worthiness to yours, as in saying they are more worthy than you, use that as a chance to grow in humility. Who of us is really worthy of Christ's Love? Even the holiest man alive isn't worthy of God's Love... it is freely given, and not earned. Remember, the first will become last and the last will become first. As Christ instructed, if you desire to become great, then make yourself small.

Sometimes we don't feel God's love and presence, something we'd refer to in Catholicism as spiritual consolations. That doesn't mean He's not there, though, and sometimes it's just our brains preventing us from feeling things we think mean we're close to God. The truth is, God is always near you. You can't control your feelings, but you can control your will, what you choose. When you can't feel God's presence, follow Him regardless, knowing He'll never leave you.

Everyone wants a human being's love and affection. It's part of our nature, as social beings, to want interactions and meaningful relationships with others. Although it's good to have these things, however, know that these aren't absolutely necessary. You're not any less because you don't have a family around you. Although it's difficult, because God's not physically present beside you, you do have a constant friend, family, and love in Him, always, as well as your guardian angel. If you trust in Him, he'll never let you down. I'm sorry that happened to you; it does seem cold.

22 hours ago, inquisitive said:

Thank you sister for the link to the real "saints" Paul has always given me strength, they are powers of example but I am a women and its not natural to be so alone. How can you be in a room and feel absolutely alone? you can when you don't understand the culture and probably never will. That's not a disrespectful comment its from the eyes of a convert. We come in hurting often then really are lost, there is a room full of people but we have no idea how anything works, and they have no idea how it looks to us.

Thanks for listening, its 2:00 AM and I just can't do this, its not about proving how strong you are, I did that a long time ago. This whole program you don't win, you play a game, that's not why I come to church, I come to hear the word of God. I came for fellowship. I guess this is the trade off. If I die tonight, the city state gets my things because I can't find someone or the person I had as a beneficiary lost contact. That's the only thing I care about now, is will I be buried with my Godmother.

You're welcome.  It's sad to see so many rejecting you. Sheltering the Homeless is a corporeal work of mercy... I'm surprised they're not working to find you a safe situation. Is there a nearby Catholic Church that could direct you to some resources for people without homes? Remember, that though the people around you may not understand you, God does and is calling you to Him. It's hard when we're afraid and worn down, but God alone really can fill our souls! There are many saints, including women, who chose to be alone, spending their time praying to God and fasting. St. Catherine of Siena refused to marry and stayed alone in her room to commune with God; St. Mary of Egypt lived a solitary life alone in the desert as a hermit from the age of seventeen. 

You're very welcome, Inquisitive. Things can often look bleak when you're alone at night, and Satan can use that time to tempt you to despair. Don't let yourself be alone... speak with God, as you would a friend, tell Him all your troubles and ask for His help. Pray to Mary, your spiritual mother, and ask for her help and prayers. 

If you need help speaking to the Blessed Mother, I'd suggest this prayer, the Memorare:

Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, 
that never was it known that anyone who fled to your protection, 
implored your help, or sought your intercession, 
was left unaided. 
Inspired by this confidence, 
I fly unto you, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother. 
To you do I come, before you I stand, sinful and sorrowful. 
O Mother of the Word Incarnate, 
despise not my petitions, 
but in your mercy, hear and answer me.
Amen.

I'd also recommend this prayer, one I say at the end of the Divine Mercy Chaplet:

Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless and the treasury of compassion inexhaustible, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments, we might not despair, nor become despondent, but with great confidence, submit ourselves to Your Holy Will, which is Love and Mercy itself. Amen.

 

God bless, Inquisitive!

[anatess2]

On 7/20/2018 at 11:01 PM, inquisitive said:

Hi there,

Well thank you I must say the ending was an unexpected surprise. Thanks for sharing about you,  yes we are very different, I have a lot of clothes (but no money and losing my apt of 17 years) I am losing everything. Did I enjoy shopping, yes it made me feel good, dressing and fashion again was always fun. 

 

I never learneed the gospel principles, I never learned anything other then living in the moment and taking care of myself since I was a teenager I have no family. Trying to fit into a culture with no family that is all family is also very hard, Asking for help in this situation even harder. Its a lot to put on someone and the whole thing was a terriable injustice. Thats something else how do you forgive when you felt very wronged and lost most of your life, now in your end last quarter have to start over with  nothing. I can't determine if God is calling me home, or if Satan just has a grasp. There are no prayers that can right this wrong. 

Thats another thing, I don't think I can every forgive ALL THIS and its my problem not the churches. I know the church will either not say anything or I hope not the blame game, like everything goes wrong sometimes you are the victim, its not always something you did wrong. 

 

Well thanks for that last paragraph its positive and kind, I wish "things" didn't mean that much to me but feeling like my life is being as discarded as I am, is well, such a throw away. 

Peace be with you, thanks again. 

Hi inquisitive - people need 2 things... material comfort and spiritual comfort.  They both need to be addressed.  Prayers give spiritual comfort.  If you allow it, then spiritual comfort will lead to material comfort.  And no, it's not always about undoing the lack of materials.  A lot of times, it's finding the blessings hidden in the lack of materials.  I'll give you an example that I have shared here on mormonhub a few times before:

I'm Filipino.  My family on my mother's side live in a fishing village.  My grand uncle is a fisherman.  So every morning when I was a teen-ager, I would wake up before the crack of dawn to go with him fishing.  His house is across the street from the sea and on the way there, we would pass by these very poor shacks with cardboard walls.  These people rely on the sea for their sustenance.  They have no other resources.  They would go out and catch a fish and if they catch something then they get to eat that day.  If they don't catch something, they starve until they catch something.  If they catch more than they can eat that day, then they get to have something they can exchange for clothes or cardboard for their walls.

Anyway, my grand uncle and I were fishing when we came home with an empty bucket.  We didn't catch a single thing.  This guy who live in that shack saw our bucket and called out to us.  He felt bad for us so he invited us to share his fish.  I was about 14 years old or so at the time and was about to decline the invite.  My great uncle happily accepted.  We came into the shack and we find they are a 3-generation family and they have one good-sized fish that the guy caught that morning that they are going to share among them.  I don't see how it is enough for one family, let alone 2 guests.  But my great uncle sat down to eat and so did I.  I ended up eating half the fish - it tasted so good and I was hungry... and I was 14-years-old hah!  Anyway, on our way home, I was starting to feel bad and so I asked my uncle... why did we accept the invitation?  I am bedecked in Nike attire from head to toe and I just caused them to starve!  And my uncle said to me - I'll never forget this my entire life - we did them a service by allowing them to serve us.  Right now, those people are not thinking about how hungry they are.  Rather, they are thinking about how happy they are that they were able to share their fish to somebody they saw who were hungry too.  It made them feel RICH to be able to serve.  And my great uncle was right.  When you meet those people, they are always smiling and happy even in their poverty.

Anyway, that life lesson I had shows that material comfort comes through spiritual comfort.  It's not that you get more materials... but rather, your spirit is comforted such that the lack of materials doesn't weigh you down as much. 

And that life lesson also shows me the power of service.  Service is not only beneficial to those who have to those who have not.  Service can uplift those who have not when they serve their fellow man - even those who have.  And, service can only happen if we allow ourselves to be served by those who want to serve.

Okay, as to your question about Stake Presidents.  Yes, there is a heirarchy - you seek help from your ministering sisters or home teachers.  If they're not able to help, then seek help from your RS Presidency, if they can't help then go to your bishop.  If that doesn't help, then go to your Stake Presidency.  If you feel very uncomfortable going through the hierarchy, then you may go ahead and call to make an appointment with your Stake Presidency, but don't be surprised if they send you to your bishop - just tell them you can't talk to your bishop about it and they should set you up with an appointment.

[anatess2]

P.S.  About forgiveness... forgiveness brings spiritual comfort.  Sometimes the offense is so great that it is difficult to find a way to forgive people.  Forgiveness is not always trying to make what was done wrong to become right.  Forgiveness is surrendering the matter to God and leaving everything up to His wisdom - making it not your problem anymore but giving it all to God.

When we think... how can we forgive such a grave sin?  It becomes doable when we think of how grave the sin that was done to Jesus Christ as He was made to suffer on the cross.  Yet, at the height of his suffering, Jesus cried out to God - Father, forgive them.  Jesus surrendered all the suffering and the grave sins being committed to God.

Surredering the fate of your oppressors to God gives you spiritual freedom.  It frees your heart so that you can begin to heal.

Hope this helps.

[inquisitive]

Dear Anatess2,

I get the point but I am in such a dark hour for the first time in my life not much is reaching me. I "get it" i know the concept of forgiveness, I know these concepts. I just feel and am

very alone. Looking back over my childhood I had a psycho social they call it done for something, I get it. I have been through so much pain and hardship in my life, its a miracle i made it this far. Its not without understanding how come I had difficulty with relationships or how much harder a church with such "family values" is a very, very difficult transition. I find comfort in the old and N/T maybe change doesn't come easy to people but the concept of ONE TRUE CHURCH is alienating to me, there are many Christian faiths that I continue to learn from such as the women who was Catholic. She gave me scripture and stories of saints. Now my Protestant upbringing taught me, saints are false prophets. NO they are not, they are taught the bible, Joseph Smith would be a saint. Its all what we are taught as children its the initial programming.

 

I am VERY careful NOT to rock to boat as a convert, I had no idea so many people are sensitive or really hurt by questions that are just questions. We always say examine your motives, if my motive is to understand, or say gee this isn't making sense, its not to divert the person from their belief. I have had many Jewish people say to me, do you actually believe that Jesus was without sin? You really believe this that and the other? I just said yes but I wasn't mad, i understand they don't believe its fine. That didn't sway my feelings its what people are taught. Its what they believe. If my faith and testimony is strong its going to be stronger with questions we answer our own.

Sometimes I miss the simple one one on one relationship with Jesus Christ and God, not all these rules and things we have to go though to earn a place in the kingdom, that's promised to us, I am the light and the way anyone who wants to enter the kingdom goes through me. We could go on and on. I know why so many wars are fought In the name of this or that. Religion the word of God a place for peace but so much pettiness, so much death and torture. You would think we would have learned something but its worse now then ever. Only today its electronic.

Do we fake it till we make it or do we every really are accepted as a convert? Depending on your age and how spiritual you were before you came in. None of us really have answers, we have the bible, we have common sense well err sometimes. We have a conscience unless we are constitutionally incapable of being honest with ourselves. Yes they are among us too. God sees our progress not perfection. Who was it who said, the person who forgives the most is given the most, or loved the most by God. He wants our heart, Satan wants our mind. I have never seen a truly spiritual person that had an easy life., its like being book smart or street smart. The streets, (experience) teaches lessons the hard way, books teach from obedience and patience, its a different kind of learning.

Life, religion, God, Jesus, friends, relationships, judgements are all part of the chapters that makes a persons life. A person who has many blessings can be ungrateful and empty and a person like the story you told me can be rich, rich in love from a fish or the sharing or caring from one human to another. I just dislike someone making decisions for me based on their judgment I dislike people doing that to anyone. Thats a caste system based on ego and the great "I am" like somehow you were not worthy to have the material things you had. its no ones business. It really is no ones business, or to judge a person though gossip and jealousy i repeat jealousy and determine that somehow, you must need to repent somewhere. Let God decide who is repenting and who isn't its not up to us here on earth to do that to one another. Yet so many of us do.

iF I am wrong then tell me but i think its not about the person fitting the religion its about the religion fitting the person. I might not be saying that right but it should feel right. i never thought about does God reward blessings, I just thought about my love for Him and not wanting him to clip my wings if that also makes sense. Now i am learning an entirely different approach. I don't think God keeps score, He loves us unconditionally, saint or sinner, He sees our heart our heart break, what we know and what we don't know. Like the child that was never taught gets total forgiveness, for they never learned choice.

We are all children in His eyes at different stages of development, trying based on our entire circumstance in life. Some of us never had love, oh a cookie here or there but not anything near caring and love. If I had one wish it would be that the church would lighten up sometimes. Stop being so militaristic thats not materialistic and let God be God and allow themselves and others to feel, and question and validate them as a whole person. Not slip them into a slot of worthiness based on accomplishments. We have accomplished much it just didn't show on the outside, what is exactly what we are talking about. A person can be in a financial jam or a life crises, but its really due to the greatness of Gods work that got them there. You just need a new pair of glasses.

I found a poem that is beautiful don't have the time to type it now but its about how this journey is to big and one seed at a time. In the end we are workers not master builders, ministers not messiahs. We are prophets of a future not our own.

DISCLOSURE I never meant to offend anyone If i did it was not pro this or that, just an opinion that is mine.

[anatess2]

@inquisitive, my 2 cents - you need to let go.

You need to let go of wanting people to change or be better or do things completely out of your control.  It is a waste of precious energy.  We can't control other people, and people are all flawed - some very deeply flawed - so that energy is best directed at controlling how you react to them.

Loneliness can be seen as a byproduct of an imbalance in life where you're looking at yourself more than you are looking at others (vis a vis the commandment to love others as we love ourselves).  You can get balance by looking outward.  I know this sounds silly but a lot of people assuage loneliness by getting a dog.  This brings people out of their self-focus and pour their energy into serving the needs of a dog.  And a dog has a giant capacity to love and doesn't talk back at you (well, okay, my dog does... but I think she has this illness where she identifies as a human).

[inquisitive]

Hi Anatesse2,

Thank you for taking the time to answer. I have so much going on I wish I could just blog the truth. Thats another thing, I find myself getting really angry and as a convert

I see we are not supposed to get angry or if we do its some prayer or something we are not doing right. Sometimes we have a lot of things to be angry at.

Regarding your answer about letting go, I have let go, there is NO ONE IN MY LIFE. Thats very hard. Its also very difficult for you to understand. To be alone and in a situation with no job, no money, and losing everything you worked for, well err, I don't know where to turn. For the first time, I find myself even pretty angry at the church, well not the church no let me say it this way if i were I woudln't write it here because I know that its all read and watched and I find that really manipulating. I know you are going to say its not done but it is, it may not be done to you but its done to me.

So delimma is the people that are helping me, really can't help me. I am getting the run around, and I don't feel like anyone is being honest with me. I know that you will never see it that way or know what it feels like to feel that the only way out of this wonderful life is to be gone, its that frustrating. I find it really pass-agg to have the people that are supposed to help me all be on vacation. Its August I get it, people go on vacation but how is that helping me? Its like saying here is $500.00 now get a car and a job and a apt.

Sometimes its to late to change, maybe thats my point. When i came in as a convert, I don't know what I was thinking, I ddn't know that so much of LDS was a way of life, or that the people were all so close but so hard to get close to. Or that I would still be alone but everyone would know what I was doing or thinking. Well not thinking but there is a culture of this reporting on each other or I don't know what it is. Its holding you close ( as in controlling) and if you need something or get frustrated, its saying well you can go. Just when you have nothing. Its mean. I don't fit in, I wish I did but I don't. I never thought that religion not just LDS but the other one as well could make me dislike gospel so much. I don't think that LDS realize how different they are from the rest of the world. Its such a different world, and when you are in crisis its even worse. Its getting tested and giving people your power. Not everyone is nice. There are those who run with it and play games. There are others who say one thing and do nothing. I think its awful to live in a culture where you are semi dependent on each other.

I feel sick every day, I find it hard to believe that if people really wanted to they couldn't help me get out of this situation that I should never have been in anyway. I didn't do anything wrong, its being structured as if I did, but I know the true story, I had an awful landlord that harassed me for 3 years. Why the church can't validate that and know that I suffered deeply. I am still suffering, I just don't know whats up with the bare basics and minimalist games. I can't explain it or if i could would i be allowed to thats even worse. Why can't anyone talk? I feel like everything is a test and I don't know what I am being tested for or why? What happened to God?

[Vort]

On 7/21/2018 at 11:08 PM, inquisitive said:

Its not understanding the culture. I repeat its not understanding the culture and when I make a mistake, have everyone report me. That's humiliating, like there is one adult in the room and its not me.

@inquisitive, can you provide a bit more information about this? An example of what you're talking about would be welcome.

I have been LDS for my entire life, and I don't recall ever seeing a situation where people went tattling to the bishop on the supposed wrongdoings of other ward members (much less a recent convert). I wonder if this is really a matter of perception, of people doing things meant to be supportive and show love, but that are taken to be meddling and invasive.

For what it's worth, I add my voice to the chorus chanting, "Go talk to your bishop!" Counseling with members is the reason he was called to that position. He has gifts of the Spirit given to him to help people in need, like yourself. Take advantage of it. I understand and appreciate your concern for his time, but in this case I would say: Don't worry about it. If the bishop feels there is a better way of meeting your needs than by talking to him, he'll tell you so and advise you what to do.

The Church is the kingdom of God, and it is set up to support the daughters and sons of God in their trials. Take advantage.

[inquisitive]

Dear Vort,

I don't want to come on here and start conflict. I have learned many things from Mormons these last years of my latter days. That of course has a

private and personal meaning.

Lets just say, IF you were a convert, would it be possible that maybe there would be more people investigating you? Think about that, we are told (but i wasn't) to investigate

the church for a while and see if its for us.  I don't know any other converts that were told this, maybe they were I never asked at some point they made a decision did they investigate the church, thats an odd word to use as well, I will never know and it doesn't matter. I was not told and when I heard the word looked around like I was under arrest (that's a joke)

Most of the converts  that I see come in have quite a few personal problems and thats ok, I came in with a hand full as well. Did they get worse, umm lets just way my life became very different. I say no more, very, different.

People have baggage and usually  come to the lord in His timing usually when you are in some kind of pain. Most people don't even know much about the ism of Mormons when they convert, We were told the basics but then is when we begin to see how different the culture is. I say that with respect its different, that's all. I am learning to be very careful with words as people get offended by many things, when they are offended, someone always finds out. Its possible its out of concern how is so and so doing, like that. Its not always a bad thing but it feels like a probation kind of feeling, just "different"

in church and it is never my intention to offend or hurt. Back to the culture of lets call it new-ness. Making friends with say another convert, you share stores of your past, things in common

and in some way its bonding and freeing the differences. Its like us vs them in a kind joking way not a mocking way. Only to find out that this person is indeed a gossip and a trouble maker and oh did they start rumor and trouble. Ok we move on, there are quite a few people in every church that have only church life, again thats not a bad lfe but it can be seen as annoying to some. judgemental to others.

I beg to differ with you, I was even told when I mentioned to a small group of my peers who I sort of trust, whats going on with the lack of privacy or reporting things. is that done like a probation time, like am I earning my way to.........I don't know its all new to a new comer. keep that in mind you don't know because there are years of church culture and family behind you. A newcomer isn't trusted YET or maybe never will be. It depends. One might say, its our culture to look out for each other, the church is a balancing act, we like to know that we are all having our needs met to the best of our ability. OR one might say, if someone is acting out, we need to know that to, we have a STANDARD as Mormons and we intend to keep it that way. Thats fine its ok, you just wonder how do they seem to find out who is keeping the standard and who is not. Simple question with a very complex answer. 

I have a different  question for you, do you feel that you could openly ask questions or post true feelings and not be punished or made feel guilty in any way? Do you feel free enough that you had the personal agency to do that? or before you ask or post anything, do you worry if someone you knew saw that post, go back and mention it to your bishop or a women with more authority then you in the church? 

I know some things should only be discussed with persons who you trust and know every well, that's only common sense. How about this basic question if you and I am not suggesting but if you had a cup of coffee, and enjoyed it. If someone saw that can or bag of coffee and a machine at your home, and asked are you drinking coffee? Do you feel like if you told the truth somehow it would reach the higher ups in the church? Just wondering,  the church will say they do it to keep the body of Christ clean and sacred and we know the rest. You might see it as, gee they violated my trust. How would you see that? just wondering and you can put anything in that box not just coffee. Its like a neighborhood policing to a new comer thats all and to a person from Utah or a small town would be totally used to the culture or would you?.

[anatess2]

On 7/31/2018 at 8:03 PM, inquisitive said:

Hi Anatesse2,

Thank you for taking the time to answer. I have so much going on I wish I could just blog the truth. Thats another thing, I find myself getting really angry and as a convert

I see we are not supposed to get angry or if we do its some prayer or something we are not doing right. Sometimes we have a lot of things to be angry at.

Regarding your answer about letting go, I have let go, there is NO ONE IN MY LIFE. Thats very hard. Its also very difficult for you to understand. To be alone and in a situation with no job, no money, and losing everything you worked for, well err, I don't know where to turn. For the first time, I find myself even pretty angry at the church, well not the church no let me say it this way if i were I woudln't write it here because I know that its all read and watched and I find that really manipulating. I know you are going to say its not done but it is, it may not be done to you but its done to me.

So delimma is the people that are helping me, really can't help me. I am getting the run around, and I don't feel like anyone is being honest with me. I know that you will never see it that way or know what it feels like to feel that the only way out of this wonderful life is to be gone, its that frustrating. I find it really pass-agg to have the people that are supposed to help me all be on vacation. Its August I get it, people go on vacation but how is that helping me? Its like saying here is $500.00 now get a car and a job and a apt.

Sometimes its to late to change, maybe thats my point. When i came in as a convert, I don't know what I was thinking, I ddn't know that so much of LDS was a way of life, or that the people were all so close but so hard to get close to. Or that I would still be alone but everyone would know what I was doing or thinking. Well not thinking but there is a culture of this reporting on each other or I don't know what it is. Its holding you close ( as in controlling) and if you need something or get frustrated, its saying well you can go. Just when you have nothing. Its mean. I don't fit in, I wish I did but I don't. I never thought that religion not just LDS but the other one as well could make me dislike gospel so much. I don't think that LDS realize how different they are from the rest of the world. Its such a different world, and when you are in crisis its even worse. Its getting tested and giving people your power. Not everyone is nice. There are those who run with it and play games. There are others who say one thing and do nothing. I think its awful to live in a culture where you are semi dependent on each other.

I feel sick every day, I find it hard to believe that if people really wanted to they couldn't help me get out of this situation that I should never have been in anyway. I didn't do anything wrong, its being structured as if I did, but I know the true story, I had an awful landlord that harassed me for 3 years. Why the church can't validate that and know that I suffered deeply. I am still suffering, I just don't know whats up with the bare basics and minimalist games. I can't explain it or if i could would i be allowed to thats even worse. Why can't anyone talk? I feel like everything is a test and I don't know what I am being tested for or why? What happened to God?

I probably understand more than you think.  I left my home country, moved to a brand new country, to a city with a culture so very different from my own and the only person I knew was a classmate in high school.  I got off the plane and walked into San Francisco airport where everybody had different color hair, different color eyes, and it was cold as all heck.  I was confused by everything.  I couldn't find my classmate so I went to a payphone - which is the instruction my classmate gave me if I get lost or in trouble.  I dialed 0 and the number for a collect call and this voice from the phone starts speaking in English that I couldn't understand (and I thought I was pretty good in English).  The first thing I did after leaving the airport is go into a Taco Bell as it was the only thing open.  I have never heard of a Taco before in my life.  The only familiar item on the menu was a Pizza.  I got the pizza and it didn't look like a pizza to me.  I go to the restroom and I can't figure out how to flush the darned toilet.  I was lost, I was confused, I was LONELY, and I ran out of money.  And yes... a few years later, I slashed my wrist.

This is what I learned:  Nobody can help you become un-Lonely.  It's just not something somebody else can do for us.  And that is because you can be in a crowded room, as rich as Bill Gates, with everything going for you... and still be lonely.  We have to crawl out of our heads on our own... and when we finally get our brain in a more positive outlook that's when we can start seeing the possibilities and the help that other people are offering become more meaningful.

I still think getting a dog could help you.  And, of course, a professional therapist.  The church can help you find one.

Edited August 2, 2018 by anatess2

[anatess2]

15 hours ago, inquisitive said:

Lets just say, IF you were a convert, would it be possible that maybe there would be more people investigating you? Think about that, we are told (but i wasn't) to investigate

the church for a while and see if its for us.  I don't know any other converts that were told this, maybe they were I never asked at some point they made a decision did they investigate the church, thats an odd word to use as well, I will never know and it doesn't matter. I was not told and when I heard the word looked around like I was under arrest (that's a joke)

I'm a convert too.  People who are learning about the Church are called Investigators because they are investigating the Church to find out if it is true.  That's their "official term".  The Church doesn't investigate you.  They simply give you an interview as far as worthiness to make a covenant or keep a covenant is concerned.  For example - they ask you if you drink alcohol or smoke or pay tithes, etc.  You answer yes or no.  They won't ask for your tax returns as evidence for your answer or check your teeth for tobacco stains... but you already know this.  You went on a baptismal interview before you got baptized.

[inquisitive]

That’s keeping it very basic and simple. Did you find learning about the culture and getting close to the people easy? Or maybe you were one that just fell into the culture no questions just  understood what was offensive what was appropriate just like that.

That has not been my experience at all. I find it difficult finding things in common outside church but I am not from a big family and do not have children. So much is based around family. It’s hard to change that’s all. 

I am not going to say anything else it’s much more then a church it’s a lifetime of fitting in as well