Character Storming

[zil]

25 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

And the problem is he wants to be more imporant - matter more to his family, his loved ones, or his community and so he becomes an over-achiever, too intense and lacking humor.

Hmm.  This could mix in with Sunday21's idea, when added to him being denied an opportunity to do what all his brothers and cousins got to do.

We may have something here.  But it might be too related to the plot.  Let's see what the next couple days bring...

[mordorbund]

His secret? He thinks the soul-sucking MAWs that surround the village should be called "capacitors".

He actually likes his job. His hobby is to moonlight his work (or study up on it) in secret.

 

[Lost Boy]

Twin brother or sister stolen while as a baby....

[Traveler]

@zil

I have a hard time with any universe other than the one we live in – So I like to adapt things I know and understand from my own universe.  First – the most common denominator of all exceptionally talented individuals – is that they have a mentor.  I like the character development of King Arthur being tutored and mentored by Merlin (great expert).

A second idea concerns magic.  I believe knowledge is the great ark of magic and that three great pillars of magic.  The masters of knowledge control the pillars of magic to become the masters of magic.  Kind of like any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from magic.  The three great pillars of magic are – 1. Music - the power to create, shape and change moods.  2. Mathematics – the power of logic to know, understand, predict and change the future and the secret of how all things are integrated.  3. Love – the power to change one’s view of others and create loyal trusted friends and a undefeatable team.

Now if you can create a character that connects with readers (which I cannot) – I see a number of possibilities.  1. A character forced into action before their time.  2. A character that thinks they are ready when they are not.  3. A character that does not understand their mentor and attempts to escape their destiny (I think this character is way overused in fantasy).  4. A character that has been a most attentive student but has always been just short of what they should be – but now must do or die.  5. A character that is well prepared and fearlessly faces what seem to be insurmountable odds (the David and Goliath) character.

 

Good luck

 

The Traveler

[zil]

30 minutes ago, Lost Boy said:

Twin brother or sister stolen while as a baby....

Hmm.  I don't think that works for this story, but if he weren't really the king's son, but adopted in some fashion, that would be very interesting.  Particularly if he found out about it by reading things he wasn't supposed to be reading.  Now we've got a secret that is a problem, and searching out the details without anyone knowing what he's doing could be quite the "hobby".

Off to the back of the brain it goes!

[mirkwood]

8 hours ago, zil said:

 

The first thing our character needs is a secret.  It doesn't have to be big or terrible or related to the story, he just needs a secret.  So, please throw out suggestions for a secret our 20-something man could have.

I had a D&D character whose secret was the family curse of lycanthropy.  None of the other players knew.  It made for some serious RPGing in the middle of the hack and slash that makes up most D&D campaign/stories.

[Sunday21]

He loves the longbow which is considered a weapon for women. Men in his culture use daggers, swords and spears. He is convinced of the usefulness of the longbow for defending from a distance. He keeps running contests for children, which is approved. But use by men except when they are instructors is frowned apon. He meets girls through his instruction of the longbow. One day a lot of long boats arrive off shore. He organizes the women and children to defend from a distance.

[zil]

37 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

He loves the longbow which is considered a weapon for women.

Erm, apparently we need to get you a longbow to try out.   (Every report I've ever read says that these required a lot of strength to draw.)

But I am beginning to reach the conclusion that he's not so good with weapons as his brothers, nor as he's expected to be.  This could be useful later on.  It's being processed.

Fun as the remainder is, it will have to go in the "ideas" file - there is no shore, and any enemies would pretty much have to arrive via a single, narrow mountain pass - easy to defend.

[Sunday21]

@zil So much for the longbows!

Maybe enemies attack at night and he is afraid of the dark?

[zil]

8 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

he is afraid of the dark?

That could be interesting.  Given the lack of "modern" lighting at night, and the fact that he can't exactly stay awake all night keeping a fire going (and even if he could, fire doesn't spread light that far), this would present a serious issue for him (given the plot).  I shall ponder.

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, zil said:

That could be interesting.  Given the lack of "modern" lighting at night, and the fact that he can't exactly stay awake all night keeping a fire going (and even if he could, fire doesn't spread light that far), this would present a serious issue for him (given the plot).  I shall ponder.

As a survival camper often I would take off alone with just a knife.  For sleeping I would prepare wood for a fire and often use rock face on one side and the fire on the other to create a reflection of heat with me in between.  In a high altitude desert (like Utah) the temperature can drop to or near freezing at night.  I learned to sleep through the night and even add wood to the fire without fully awaking.   It is very unlikely that someone that spends much time on their own in the wilderness overnight is afraid of the dark.  If there are night creatures to deal with - your character should know how that is done.  I think you should too, if you are going to write about it.

 

The Traveler

Edited July 27, 2018 by Traveler

[zil]

15 minutes ago, Traveler said:

someone that spends much time on their own in the wilderness overnight

Depending on how it shapes up, it's entirely possible that being alone in the wilderness (day or night) is foreign to this character - something he's never done before.  I was about to write more, but the author forbids it!

[Traveler]

2 hours ago, zil said:

Depending on how it shapes up, it's entirely possible that being alone in the wilderness (day or night) is foreign to this character - something he's never done before.  I was about to write more, but the author forbids it!

There is an old saying - that when you are up to your nick in alligators - it is very hard to remember that the intent was to drain the swamp.  A "babe in the woods" (someone that does not know what they are doing have problems most fantasy writers are unprepared to deal with.  Same problem with a single individual protecting a mountain pass.  There are logistical and strategic problems with "defending" a mountain pass.

Tom Clancy wrote fantasy that many knowledgeable of what he wrote; wondered - now much truth was there hidden in the pages?  Or like my father would say - if you are going to do something - do it better than anyone else or consider leaving the job of doing it to them.

 

The Traveler 

[zil]

2 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Same problem with a single individual protecting a mountain pass.  There are logistical and strategic problems with "defending" a mountain pass. 

This won't be part of the story, I was just mentioning the geography because Sunday brought up a shore to defend - and there isn't a shore, cuz we're in the mountains.  But, no need to figure out how to defend the pass - and no way would one person do it, let alone this person.  So it's simply a geographic fact.

3 minutes ago, Traveler said:

A "babe in the woods" (someone that does not know what they are doing have problems most fantasy writers are unprepared to deal with.

It's unclear whether this will need to be dealt with or not.  Time will tell.  (Many things that I already know are intentionally not being mentioned here.  Other things are entirely up in the air right now.)  My primary point in this thread is to figure out who this character is - what does he like or not like, what does he love and fear, what are his passions, what are is secrets and problems, what are his virtues and vices.  While no one else in this thread may recognize it¹, I am already starting to get an idea of who this character could be - whether it's the right idea, or whether I'm starting to create a character who will go into the "ideas" file, is undetermined.

¹I have found that the simplest of things will unlock a cascade of ideas.  I have no expectation whatsoever that what's in my head as a result of this thread could possibly be in anyone else's head.  I have no idea whether anyone else sees enough here to come up with a character in their own head (or whether they even care).  None of that bothers me.  All the stuff folks post - even the silly, even the stuff I won't use at all, is still useful in triggering the thoughts that the back of my brain will use to create a character.

Meanwhile, I think I can see why it's difficult for you to find fiction you like - you have a hard (if not impossible) time suspending disbelief - a requirement for fiction.  I think my perception is most easily explained by an example: I liked the movie "The Net" - even though the computer stuff in that movie was laughably absurd.  I couldn't care less about how wrong their computer references were - that wasn't why I was watching the movie.  If I want to learn computer stuff, I'll read manuals or similar.  It was the character I cared about, and the story that I enjoyed.  The rest is just one of those times where we all agree that for the duration, we're going to pretend like pigs fly.

[Traveler]

On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 12:19 PM, zil said:

This won't be part of the story, I was just mentioning the geography because Sunday brought up a shore to defend - and there isn't a shore, cuz we're in the mountains.  But, no need to figure out how to defend the pass - and no way would one person do it, let alone this person.  So it's simply a geographic fact.

It's unclear whether this will need to be dealt with or not.  Time will tell.  (Many things that I already know are intentionally not being mentioned here.  Other things are entirely up in the air right now.)  My primary point in this thread is to figure out who this character is - what does he like or not like, what does he love and fear, what are his passions, what are is secrets and problems, what are his virtues and vices.  While no one else in this thread may recognize it¹, I am already starting to get an idea of who this character could be - whether it's the right idea, or whether I'm starting to create a character who will go into the "ideas" file, is undetermined.

¹I have found that the simplest of things will unlock a cascade of ideas.  I have no expectation whatsoever that what's in my head as a result of this thread could possibly be in anyone else's head.  I have no idea whether anyone else sees enough here to come up with a character in their own head (or whether they even care).  None of that bothers me.  All the stuff folks post - even the silly, even the stuff I won't use at all, is still useful in triggering the thoughts that the back of my brain will use to create a character.

Meanwhile, I think I can see why it's difficult for you to find fiction you like - you have a hard (if not impossible) time suspending disbelief - a requirement for fiction.  I think my perception is most easily explained by an example: I liked the movie "The Net" - even though the computer stuff in that movie was laughably absurd.  I couldn't care less about how wrong their computer references were - that wasn't why I was watching the movie.  If I want to learn computer stuff, I'll read manuals or similar.  It was the character I cared about, and the story that I enjoyed.  The rest is just one of those times where we all agree that for the duration, we're going to pretend like pigs fly.

 

I have been in writing clubs and editing groups – yes I know I have a problem with characters.  It is mostly because I have such a hard time with touchy feely notions of characters.  I will give an example.  A certain character is an excellent marksman – a William Tell type (whether it be the bow and arrow are sniper with a rifle) – the physics of an accurate bullseye shot have logistics that alter the aim when the target is at a different height than the source of the shot.  If a character is proficient with such a skill the writer should know what they are talking about.  For another example – if a character must build a fire without matches – the author should know how it is (or should be) done.

A third grader can make up a story and a character – I just think there must be enough believable evidence that someone writing about anything has something important to say that is consistent both in the story and the character.  I was a great fan of Star Trek and Spok – until an episode where Spok went back in time and thought that a tape transport was a computer.

For me it is like cotton candy – it looks fun and tastes very sweet – but there is nothing to eat – so that when you are done, you feel unfulfilled and if you gave it to your kids – they will act as if there is no reality leaving you to wonder – not just if it was worth it but why you even considered it in the first place.  And now you know why I am not successful writing anything other than user manuals for techs.

 

The Traveler

[askandanswer]

On 7/27/2018 at 1:09 AM, zil said:

The first thing our character needs is a secret.  It doesn't have to be big or terrible or related to the story, he just needs a secret.  So, please throw out suggestions for a secret our 20-something man could have.

If I told you his secret, then it wouldn't be a secret anymore

[askandanswer]

Your search for a secret reminds me of the second verse of hymn 292, O My Father

Yet ofttimes a secret something
Whispered, "You're a stranger here,"
And I felt that I had wandered
From a more exalted sphere.

Could his origins be his secret?

[Sunday21]

@Perhaps he lacks a physical attribute that all males have in his society eg ability to see in the dark? They can feel another’s fear when they shake hands? He does not have this ability due to mixed heritage? His hobby is calligraphy and thus his obsession with quill pens and ink? But not accepted in this macho culture? 

[zil]

2 hours ago, askandanswer said:

Could his origins be his secret?

Perhaps.  This is one of the ideas I've sent for processing.

[Lost Boy]

On 7/26/2018 at 6:23 PM, zil said:

Hmm.  I don't think that works for this story, but if he weren't really the king's son, but adopted in some fashion, that would be very interesting.  Particularly if he found out about it by reading things he wasn't supposed to be reading.  Now we've got a secret that is a problem, and searching out the details without anyone knowing what he's doing could be quite the "hobby".

Off to the back of the brain it goes!

What if he wasn't adopted, but stolen...  Or switched at birth.

Or maybe he found out that his dad was not the rightful king...  Or he is not the son of the king, but the son of someone else who his mom had a little romantic thing with and the king never knew...

[zil]

4 minutes ago, Lost Boy said:

What if he wasn't adopted, but stolen...  Or switched at birth.

Or maybe he found out that his dad was not the rightful king...  Or he is not the son of the king, but the son of someone else who his mom had a little romantic thing with and the king never knew...

Except maybe for his mom having a fling, none of that would fit this story - but I appreciate the ideas.  As I said above, every idea is useful, even the ones I don't end up using.

[Lost Boy]

1 minute ago, zil said:

Except maybe for his mom having a fling, none of that would fit this story - but I appreciate the ideas.  As I said above, every idea is useful, even the ones I don't end up using.

You could go darker..   He accidentally killed his cousin..  playing on the docks... accidentally knocked his cousin off.  Neither could swim so the cousin drowned and the young prince pretended to know nothing about it.  And he has been carrying this guilt the whole time.

[Lost Boy]

I once had a very vivid and realist dream.  And I always wanted to turn it into a book.  As dreams go, most dreams don't really have a plot nor an ending and neither did this one, but it had a pretty cool setup.

In the dream a young man inherits an old mansion from an old and secretive uncle who also left a cryptic note with the mansion that only this young man was to read.  Now I can't remember if the young man was me or someone else, but that doesn't really matter.  

I remember the house to be a old large Victorian style house that wouldn't be out of place in a horror movie, but not quite so dark.  I only remember a bit of the inside and the one room in particular, most likely the library, had thousands of old books many of which were laying out on the table.  And there was a suit of armor that looked like it had seen action, but was very well taken care of.

Through the note, the young man stumbles on a secret passage in the library to a secret room.  In the room he finds a strange sword that is covered in an alien language.  There is a book on the table in that secret room that has more of this alien language written on it plus some notes in English and a persons name.  And there was a distinct feeling not to reveal this stuff to anyone.  And that is basically where the dream ended.  Never got to finish the story, but I was riveted.