How soon is Jesus coming?

[JohnsonJones]

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

You are incorrect.  The gospel has been taught in all those nations.  It just hasn't been taught via a formal mission program.  I've been to Saudi, Kuwait, Afghanistan, and UAE.  There are members of the Church there.  It has been taught.

I also don't know why you have noted some missionaries in some of those nations, yet you included them in your list.

Awesome.  I have been to those (except Afghanistan, I don't go there) along with Bahrain, Qatar, Oman, and a few others.  Afghanistan is a little out of my comfort zone though. 

They actually have members of the church in the Saudi Peninsula and Persian Gulf areas, and it is organized, but normally not officially recognized.  Most of the members are TPNs though.  A lot of Filipinos from what I've seen.

It is illegal to proselyte or teach the gospel.  With the prevalence of the internet though, I believe that there may be some that have stumbled across the LDS church's teachings or at least some of the ideas of the church.  In addition, the LDS church has some members that are examples there and serve the nations that are in those areas respectively.  Converts from the local tribes and citizens are normally discouraged due to social and civil laws and requirements (From what I understand). 

[Guest Scott]

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I've been to Saudi, Kuwait, Afghanistan, and UAE.  There are members of the Church there. 

Yes, there are, but as far as I know only on the military bases for military personnel.  Unless you know of more(?).  If you do know of more, please do tell as this would be very interesting.  Of those on your list, I have been only to the UAE. 

I guess it would be more accurate to say that the gospel has been taught in some of those nations (i.e. for US soldiers worshiping on base), but not to those nations (i.e. the citizens of those countries).

Nations such Israel have LDS members from the US (and maybe other nations) living there, but we can't preach there.   

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The gospel has been taught in all those nations

All of them?  That's not what our own Church says.  When was the gospel taught in countries like Djibouti, Chad, etc.?  Or do you mean before the modern Church existed?   

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I also don't know why you have noted some missionaries in some of those nations, yet you included them in your list.

Do you mean China and Faroe Islands?  If so, there either are or have been missionaries in Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Macau, but not in the rest of the country, which was pointed out.  Perhaps it would be best to say that the gospel hasn't been taught in the vast majority of China.  LDS.org lists Macau, Taiwan, and Hong Kong as being separate (thus my post mentioning that missionaries have been in those places), even though they are technically in the same nation:

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics/country/china

Anyway, here is a list of the countries that we are currently in:

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics/country/china#

The Church Almanac from the Desert News also has a list of nations that we used to be in, but no longer. 

 

Edited September 30, 2018 by Scott

[Anddenex]

54 minutes ago, Scott said:

Yes, there are, but as far as I know only on the military bases for military personnel.  Unless you know of more(?).  If you do know of more, please do tell as this would be very interesting.  Of those on your list, I have been only to the UAE. 

I guess it would be more accurate to say that the gospel has been taught in some of those nations (i.e. for US soldiers worshiping on base), but not to those nations (i.e. the citizens of those countries).

Nations such Israel have LDS members from the US (and maybe other nations) living there, but we can't preach there.   

All of them?  That's not what our own Church says.  When was the gospel taught in countries like Djibouti, Chad, etc.?  Or do you mean before the modern Church existed?   

Do you mean China and Faroe Islands?  If so, there either are or have been missionaries in Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Macau, but not in the rest of the country, which was pointed out.  Perhaps it would be best to say that the gospel hasn't been taught in the vast majority of China.  LDS.org lists Macau, Taiwan, and Hong Kong as being separate (thus my post mentioning that missionaries have been in those places), even though they are technically in the same nation:

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics/country/china

Anyway, here is a list of the countries that we are currently in:

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics/country/china#

The Church Almanac from the Desert News also has a list of nations that we used to be in, but no longer.

I don't remember where I read it, but one of the Church articles (maybe an Ensign article but take the article as a grain of salt as I can't remember where I just know it was Church related) had specified that the gospel is being preached in China -- internet. People in China have been viewing Church stories via internet, thus the gospel is being preached by missionaries and others alike through the internet.

[Guest Scott]

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I don't remember where I read it, but one of the Church articles (maybe an Ensign article but take the article as a grain of salt as I can't remember where I just know it was Church related) had specified that the gospel is being preached in China -- internet. People in China have been viewing Church stories via internet, thus the gospel is being preached by missionaries and others alike through the internet.

This is all I can find right now:

https://www.lds.org/mormonsandchina

There are Church members in China that lived overseas and tool the religion back to China with them. 

Also, I found out that three missionaries visited China in 1852, but they left after four months.  

I think that China is going to open up to the missionaries sometime within the next 30 years.  The doorway will likely be Hong Kong.  China has allowed Hong Kong to keep its current status until 2047 at which time it is supposed to be fully incorporated into the People's Republic of China.  There is already a temple in Hong Kong.  I doubt that Hong Kong is going to give up its freedoms (including religion) once China moves to incorporate the region. More than likely, the Church will spread with the incorporation.   

Much of New Guinea (we are in the country, but there are hundreds of languages there), much of Africa, the Middle East, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nepal, and Bhutan are going to be more difficult, though there may be a few members in those areas.  North Korea is going to be tough too, without a big war.

 

Edited September 30, 2018 by Scott

[JohnsonJones]

9 hours ago, Scott said:

Yes, there are, but as far as I know only on the military bases for military personnel.  Unless you know of more(?).  If you do know of more, please do tell as this would be very interesting.  Of those on your list, I have been only to the UAE. 

 

I don't go on the bases so I would not know.  I imagine there may be Mormons among the military though.

My experience is with the various units there.  They tend to be small, but you have units there of Mormons.  They are not OFFICIALLY recognized by the government and hence are not official, but there are those that are in these areas.

They mainly are composed of Ex-pats or those working with the Oil companies and TPNs and a few others that wander in such as scholars, educators and various others.

Edited September 30, 2018 by JohnsonJones

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Scott said:

Yes, there are, but as far as I know only on the military bases for military personnel.  Unless you know of more(?).  If you do know of more, please do tell as this would be very interesting.  Of those on your list, I have been only to the UAE. 

There are branches that have been formed by expats who work there.  In that process, there have been some native converts.  I cannot say I'm so certain of that in Afghanistan.  But I did personally sit down with an Afghan an give him a brief intro to the Church. (Note to @zil: If you're going to make a drawing of me talking to a rug, then make sure it is a pretty rug).

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All of them?  That's not what our own Church says.  When was the gospel taught in countries like Djibouti, Chad, etc.?  Or do you mean before the modern Church existed?   

I meant taught.  But based on your response, I believe you missed an important qualifier.

19 hours ago, Carborendum said:

You are incorrect.  The gospel has been taught in all those nations.  It just hasn't been taught via a formal mission program.  I've been to Saudi, Kuwait, Afghanistan, and UAE.  There are members of the Church there.  It has been taught.

I also don't know why you have noted some missionaries in some of those nations, yet you included them in your list.

Where is it required in any prophecy that formal full-time missionaries be the ones preaching in all nations?

[zil]

20 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

(Note to @zil: If you're going to make a drawing of me talking to a rug, then make sure it is a pretty rug).

An Afghan isn't a rug, it's a throw / blanket / shawl.  Not sure I'll have time this morning, but I'll do my best as soon as I do have time.

[zil]

22 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

But I did personally sit down with an Afghan an give him a brief intro to the Church.

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, zil said:

If that's supposed to be me, where's the kim chee?  Huh?  HUHHHH??

[zil]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

If that's supposed to be me, where's the kim chee?  Huh?  HUHHHH??

Really? You couldn't wait until you were done sharing about the Church before having some kim chee? :SMH:

[goor_de]

On 9/29/2018 at 7:22 PM, Carborendum said:

You are incorrect.  The gospel has been taught in all those nations.  It just hasn't been taught via a formal mission program.  I've been to Saudi, Kuwait, Afghanistan, and UAE.  There are members of the Church there.  It has been taught.

I also don't know why you have noted some missionaries in some of those nations, yet you included them in your list.

The import, printing and possession of non-Islamic Sunni religious material, such as Bibles are forbidden. It is forbidden to celebrate a Christian service, to receive the sacraments, and to carry Christian symbols and devotional items (eg, a cross, a Bible, a rosary, or the like).

[Guest Scott]

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There are branches that have been formed by expats who work there.  In that process, there have been some native converts.  I cannot say I'm so certain of that in Afghanistan.  But I did personally sit down with an Afghan an give him a brief intro to the Church. (Note to @zil: If you're going to make a drawing of me talking to a rug, then make sure it is a pretty rug).

That's cool and a valid point.  I was going off official Church statistics, but your point is a valid one.

 

Quote

 

All of them?  That's not what our own Church says.  When was the gospel taught in countries like Djibouti, Chad, etc.?  Or do you mean before the modern Church existed?   

I meant taught.  But based on your response, I believe you missed an important qualifier.

It just hasn't been taught via a formal mission program.  

 

Has it been taught in those places?  I am just asking, rather than arguing.  I don't know of it being taught, either informal or formally in a lot of countries, but that doesn't mean it has never happened.

Which countries on the list, besides the ones you listed are you aware of this happening?  I assume anywhere with a US base probably qualifies.  (Note that I am asking rather than debating).  It is hard for me to imagine that the gospel has been taught in some of those areas, but that doesn't make it impossible.  

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Where is it required in any prophecy that formal full-time missionaries be the ones preaching in all nations?

As far as I know, there is no such prophesy.  

The closest I know of is the 5th Article of Faith, which says the following:

5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

It does not however, say that it has to be full time missionaries. 

There are however several prophesies that say that the Gospel will be taught in all languages.  Right now, at least part of the Book of Mormon is translated into about 110 languages.   This is a great accomplishment, but there are more than 6500 in the world.  

Perhaps it's not prudent to get too focused on the numbers and just to accept that it will eventually happen one day.   It could take a lot less time than any of us could imagine, or it could take many more years.  

To be fair also, I guess the scriptures don't have to be translated in every language for it to still be taught through the gift of tongues. 

Edited September 30, 2018 by Scott

[zil]

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

If that's supposed to be me, where's the kim chee?  Huh?  HUHHHH??

Fine.

Of course now it's clear, the Afghan was only after the kim chee and couldn't care less what you were saying about the Church.

[Vort]

On 9/23/2018 at 5:43 PM, jerome1232 said:

Relaize that there are pages of this  thread I have not yet read, but I wanted  to repsond to  this. I actuaIly go opposite on this. If you legitimately don't think there are things in your life you would like to change before Christ's return then I'd suggest you are too comfortable in your sins. I would hope that such knowledge would at least hasten your work on bettering yourself.

You should reread the last sentence of my post that you were responding to.

[Lost Boy]

I did a calculation a few years back projecting the growth of the church to the population of the world.  I then estimated how long it would take for 10% of the world population to be LDS.  At the very best, I estimated around 150 years, but probably closer to 300 years.

I figure during the next 150 to 300 years. 

Honestly I don't really care when he comes again.  I have many me issues that I still need to work on.  Jesus coming here isn't going to fix those.  Those need to be fixed by me.  I mean I don't think Jesus being here is going to make your life any better.  We all still need to learn and grow.

I wonder how faith will be affected when he comes again.  Faith is so key in our religion and if he is here and all know that he is the son of God, then there is no more faith.  So I wonder if he is here if we would really even know.

[OnePassenger]

On 8/29/2018 at 3:18 PM, Chilean said:

I know, we don't know when He's coming (He doesn't even know). But I just want to know your thoughts on this topic, just for the fun of it, as probably everything we say here about will be speculation.  

What are your thoughts? Do you think he's coming within the next 100 years? I personally think He is coming soon, maybe even within the next 30 to 40 years.

Stop breathing as long as you can, and a few seconds more, and then you might get the answer instead of pure speculations.  😀

[Jersey Boy]

On 8/29/2018 at 9:18 AM, Chilean said:

I know, we don't know when He's coming (He doesn't even know). But I just want to know your thoughts on this topic, just for the fun of it, as probably everything we say here about will be speculation.  

What are your thoughts? Do you think he's coming within the next 100 years? I personally think He is coming soon, maybe even within the next 30 to 40 years.

 

The answers to your question don’t have to be based on pure speculation because there are a great many prophecies pertaining to the Second Coming in the Standard Works that need to be fulfilled. One of the prophecies pertaining to the Second Coming that is yet to be fulfilled is the building of the city of Zion in Missouri, the fulfillment of which appears to be years. If not several decades, into the future.

[Guest MormonGator]

Before anyone starts making predictions, they should be forced to Google the name "Harold Camping". 

[zil]

10 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Harold Camping

[Highlander]

What about the things leading up to the second coming I was reading in D&C 45 about the gathering of Zion and I know in the section it is referring to Jackson county but I'm pretty sure the whole world isn't supposed to gather there so what about the last days outside of the USA. What about me here in Australia

Here is the scripture I was reading;

68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.

69 And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another.

70 And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand.

[goor_de]

8 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Before anyone starts making predictions, they should be forced to Google the name "Harold Camping". 

j.Smith said what has to happen before
The temple in Jerusalem
Pure water flows from the temple
The Dead Sea healthy again

[zil]

4 hours ago, Highlander said:

What about the things leading up to the second coming I was reading in D&C 45 about the gathering of Zion and I know in the section it is referring to Jackson county but I'm pretty sure the whole world isn't supposed to gather there so what about the last days outside of the USA. What about me here in Australia

There are many stakes in Zion.  If it comes to the point where all the saints in the USA gather to Missouri, I would expect similar gatherings in other places, if the saints on other continents can't get to Missouri - perhaps around temples.

[Guest MormonGator]

This becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. If you wake up every day and say "Today is the day I'm going to die" eventually, you'll be right. If you wake up every day and say "Today is the day the world will end" eventually you'll be right. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by MormonGator

[theplains]

On 9/29/2018 at 1:06 PM, Jane_Doe said:

I noticed how you completely misrepresented my comment here.  I do not appreciate such.

My apologies.  Is it safe to say you believe all the Book of Mormon is historically accurate?

Jim

[Jane_Doe]

11 hours ago, theplains said:

My apologies.  Is it safe to say you believe all the Book of Mormon is historically accurate?

Jim

Your apology here rings very hollow as you immediately repeat the same offense of skewing my words.  My comment was:

On 9/27/2018 at 9:54 AM, Jane_Doe said:

Personally, for me the purpose of all scripture to bring men unto Christ, and I'll admit I don't really care about the historical accuracy / which parts are metaphorical debate.  It just... really doesn't matter to me.

Please stop trying to evangelize by twisting people's words into the exact opposite of the original message.    Such behavior is the anti-thesis of what it is to be a Christian.