tiancum Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 WE all have read section 121 of the DnC many times but what is the essence of the sin of unrighteous dominion? is it simply force? controlling and manipulating someone into doing or thinking what we want? we know abuse is part of it. what are the more subtle manifestations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 Censorship would be a bit subtler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_jason Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 The term 'unrighteous dominion' is fairly self-explanatory. Section 121 speaks of unrighteous dominion in terms of the priesthood, but it can happen outside of the priesthood as well. To me, unrighteous dominion would be any force, persuasion, or coercian that is intended to glorify or draw attention to oneself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 perhaps Dictator....I could go on....but I will stop there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Whenever someone has to pull rank, chances are they've reached the border between necessary action and unrighteous dominion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Whenever someone has to pull rank, chances are they've reached the border between necessary action and unrighteous dominion.I agree or maybe I should say....Ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiancum Posted November 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 unrighteous dominion would be any force, persuasion, or coercion that is intended to glorify or draw attention to oneself does that mean that forcing is ok...if it is for a good cause??is it ok to force people to do what is right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_jason Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 unrighteous dominion would be any force, persuasion, or coercion that is intended to glorify or draw attention to oneself does that mean that forcing is ok...if it is for a good cause??is it ok to force people to do what is right?Often times it IS to persuade someone to do right, but it's done in an unrighteous manner. If a persuasion is for the betterment of the other person and is not intended to glorify the persuader, then I'm not sure it's unrighteous. An example would be a husband forcing or persuading his wife or children to do something because he "holds the priesthood, and what he says goes." This is unrighteous dominion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Mormon Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 <div class='quotemain'>unrighteous dominion would be any force, persuasion, or coercion that is intended to glorify or draw attention to oneself does that mean that forcing is ok...if it is for a good cause??is it ok to force people to do what is right?Often times it IS to persuade someone to do right, but it's done in an unrighteous manner. If a persuasion is for the betterment of the other person and is not intended to glorify the persuader, then I'm not sure it's unrighteous. An example would be a husband forcing or persuading his wife or children to do something because he "holds the priesthood, and what he says goes." This is unrighteous dominion.My personal opinion is that if you do things in a way that degrades or demeans the other person, or are abusive (physically or verbally), that is unrighteous dominion. Even if it is to do "the right thing". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 unrighteous dominion would be any force, persuasion, or coercion that is intended to glorify or draw attention to oneself does that mean that forcing is ok...if it is for a good cause??is it ok to force people to do what is right?It can be. Otherwise, I'd be out of a job. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiancum Posted November 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 ok guys, i assert....... that it is evil to force people to do what is "right". As long as the person has the ability to choose between right and wrong, the choice must be left up to them. (we can of course sacrifice this freedom by choosing poorly) remember what satan wanted to do? he wanted force us all to do what was right, depriving us of the opportunity for growth, and he would forever rule over us. He sneaky plan, was to damn our growth so that we could never improve and grow, thus puttign him in a position over us forever. Our choice is sacred, and it was something Satan tried to deny us. He knew that it was not us doing God's will that would give us power, but CHOOSING to do His will that would help us become "like" the Father. PC, I don't think you force people to come to church. In fact, i could bet 100 bucks that you don't, knowing the kind of person you are by the wisdom of your posts. YOu deal with a crowd that has lost their freedom in part because of poor choices, but they still have many choices, doncha think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 ok guys, i assert.......that it is evil to force people to do what is "right". As long as the person has the ability to choose between right and wrong, the choice must be left up to them. (we can of course sacrifice this freedom by choosing poorly)remember what satan wanted to do? he wanted force us all to do what was right, depriving us of the opportunity for growth, and he would forever rule over us. He sneaky plan, was to damn our growth so that we could never improve and grow, thus puttign him in a position over us forever.Our choice is sacred, and it was something Satan tried to deny us. He knew that it was not us doing God's will that would give us power, but CHOOSING to do His will that would help us become "like" the Father. PC, I don't think you force people to come to church. In fact, i could bet 100 bucks that you don't, knowing the kind of person you are by the wisdom of your posts. YOu deal with a crowd that has lost their freedom in part because of poor choices, but they still have many choices, doncha think?You are right. Even prison inmates do not have to go to church. Additionally, when choices do not bring danger to others, allowing liberty to own the right choice is much preferable. However, some choices are dangerous, and there, as Romans 13 insists, government does not wield the sword for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpacktr Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 <div class='quotemain'>unrighteous dominion would be any force, persuasion, or coercion that is intended to glorify or draw attention to oneself does that mean that forcing is ok...if it is for a good cause??is it ok to force people to do what is right?Often times it IS to persuade someone to do right, but it's done in an unrighteous manner. If a persuasion is for the betterment of the other person and is not intended to glorify the persuader, then I'm not sure it's unrighteous. An example would be a husband forcing or persuading his wife or children to do something because he "holds the priesthood, and what he says goes." This is unrighteous dominion.What would you consider 'force'? Holding a knife to someone's throat and making them do something that is right? Taking away privileges for not doing something that someone should have done (like our children)? I'm reminded of a talk in GC several years ago, maybe in PH session, maybe not, by a brother from South America (Brazil, I believe, but I can't remember clearly). Anyway, he spoke of a young man that loved surfing and the beach more than church, and so didn't go to church. One Sunday morning, one of his leaders (either YM or Bishopric member) showed up at his house inviting him to come back to church. He made an excuse and didn't go. The next Sunday, this leader was on his car (the YM's car) waiting for him, and invited him to church again. The next Sunday (I've cut down the length of time, but you get the gist), the YM thought he'd bug out early and headed to the beach before the leader could come and get him. While he was surfing, he was surprised to find this leader wading into the surf (in his suit, no less!) and calling to him to come to church. This YM then gave in and went to church and became active from that. And if I remember right, he (the speaker) was the YM, and he praised the name of this leader that 'forced' him to come back thru his example of love...So I'll ask again: what do you consider force? I have yet to see someone forced to do something in the church. Not once, on any of the leadership councils that I have sat on, has someone been forced. Made to feel ashamed because they weren't doing their duty? Even that would be iffy, but we sometimes equate feeling guilty for not doing our duty with being 'forced'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 WE all have read section 121 of the DnC many timesbut what is the essence of the sin of unrighteous dominion?is it simply force? controlling and manipulating someone into doing or thinking what we want? we know abuse is part of it. what are the more subtle manifestations?I will go out on a limb and perhaps get someone a little excited. I will compare one aspect of the sin of unrighteous dominion with the great sin chronicled in the Book of Mormon known as secret combinations. I would put forth that it is unrighteous dominion to use other human life or effort in order to gain greater wealth for one’s self.I will also state that it is another kind of unrighteous dominion to incorrectly represent the actions of others (in a debasing manner) in order to gain wealth, power or fame for one’s self. Example of this are: those that accept money or fame by defacing others through their writing or other public announcements; something to think about during election time.The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimA. Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 Funny thing about God and free choice. It seems that God has granted us free choice unconditionally. God allows children to be murdered everyday and does not directly interfere. God will not interfere with our free choice but I firmly believe that in some instances He fully expects me to and will hold me accountable if I do not. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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