BYU as a church school?

[zil]

21 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

My boys are learning how to pick locks.  I'll have to suggest the use of a ballpoint pen.

I did that - except I stopped at learning to rake.  My brother actually picks locks - I don't really have the patience.  Unfortunately, a ballpoint is no use for this kind of "keying" - yet another thing it's no good for.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

Utah parents define successful parenting as having their child attend BYU and tell their children that their success in school is measured by whether they are admitted to BYU-P.  BYU-I is a cringe-inducing fallback.

Not universal, of course, but far too prevalent and blatantly obvious and openly discussed.

What have you actually heard in person rather than just a general description?  Can you provide a direct quote as best as you can remember it?

Edited November 20, 2018 by Guest

[Vort]

9 hours ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Is it time for the Church to stop direct support of the BYU schools? 

When it's time for the Church to stop supporting the BYU system, you will be able to tell by certain subtle clues that will quietly leak out, such as the Board of Trustees stating, "We will no longer support BYU with the Church's funds."

[Tyme]

They should raise the price of tuition. That way they won't have to send as much tithing to the school. I don't understand why people who didn't go to BYU have to bankroll it.

[let’s roll]

48 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

What have you actually heard in person rather than just a general description?  Can you provide a direct quote as best as you can remember it?

Far too many to list them all.  But to illustrate the point, at a youth conference testimony meeting one youth said he was stressed about school because his parents had told him they would feel they failed him if they didn’t help him get into BYU.  Three other youth referred to his testimony while sharing their own and said they knew what he was feeling.  As I recall one said he felt like the whole purpose of his life up to now was to get into BYU.  Another said she was scared to talk to her parents about school because they were so invested in her getting into the Y.  The last talked about being grateful for the change in missionary age because his parents had backed off their “obsession” about him going to the Y and were focused on getting him into the mission field.

[Tyme]

Does it actually cost less to operate BYU than other colleges or are tithing dollars covering the additional costs?

[Jane_Doe]

7 minutes ago, Tyme said:

They should raise the price of tuition. That way they won't have to send as much tithing to the school. I don't understand why people who didn't go to BYU have to bankroll it.

Do you likewise object to funding your state schools?

2 minutes ago, Tyme said:

Does it actually cost less to operate BYU than other colleges or are tithing dollars covering the additional costs?

Yes and yes.  There's less cost with admin overhead and tithing helps support costs.   Just as your in-state schools are supported by in-state taxes, and hence generally cost less to attend then other schools.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Jane_Doe

[Tyme]

3 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Do you likewise object to funding your state schools?

Yes and yes.  There's less cost with admin overhead and tithing helps support costs.   Just as your in-state schools are supported by in-state taxes, and hence generally cost less to attend then other schools.

State schools cost roughly double what BYU does. If BYU raised the tuition to be on par with state schools the school wouldn't need tithing dollars.

[Jane_Doe]

Just now, Tyme said:

State schools cost roughly double what BYU does. If BYU raised the tuition to be on par with state schools the school wouldn't need tithing dollars.

Again, do you object to your tax dollars funding state schools?

[Tyme]

2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Again, do you object to your tax dollars funding state schools?

No, I don't. Although state funding has gone way down. With that said, tithing is very different than tax dollars.

[Jane_Doe]

Just now, Tyme said:

No, I don't. Although state funding has gone way down. With that said, tithing is very different than tax dollars.

It's the exact same concept.

[Guest MormonGator]

Isn't it a good thing that your tithing money goes to help under privileged students who want an education? 

[Tyme]

7 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Isn't it a good thing that your tithing money goes to help under privileged students who want an education? 

If it went strictly to under privileged students that's a good thing. However, it covers any member who goes to BYU.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

21 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Isn't it a good thing that your tithing money goes to help under privileged students who want an education? 

I'm one of those underprivileged,  And I am SO grateful for the reduced tuition price at BYUI and the online classes.  Because of this program so many more members all over the world are getting an education that would not have been within their reach otherwise.  Church schools are wonderful on so many different levels. Truly inspired!

Edited November 20, 2018 by LiterateParakeet

[Vort]

31 minutes ago, Tyme said:

With that said, tithing is very different than tax dollars.

Indeed it is. Tax dollars are YOUR dollars that the government seizes to fund public programs. You have a voice in that matter, expressed primarily through your vote but also through contacting your representative, campaigning, advertising, etc. All are appropriate, even encouraged.

This is utterly unlike tithing, which is THE LORD's money, to spend as he or his authorized servants see fit. It is frankly (and literally) none of your business how tithing is spent. You don't have a voice in the matter, nor should you.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Vort

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

Far too many to list them all.  But to illustrate the point, at a youth conference testimony meeting one youth said he was stressed about school because his parents had told him they would feel they failed him if they didn’t help him get into BYU.  Three other youth referred to his testimony while sharing their own and said they knew what he was feeling.  As I recall one said he felt like the whole purpose of his life up to now was to get into BYU.  Another said she was scared to talk to her parents about school because they were so invested in her getting into the Y.  The last talked about being grateful for the change in missionary age because his parents had backed off their “obsession” about him going to the Y and were focused on getting him into the mission field.

What you're describing is the impressions of teenagers of what their parents told them.  While I know a lot of parents will think very highly of their children getting to go to College and that BYU is a very desirable school, I doubt any parent actually said:

"I want you to know that your primary purpose in life is to get accepted to BYU.  And if you don't I'll disown you."

What you have is a lot of characterizations and teenage impressions, and dare I say, exaggerations.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Isn't it a good thing that your tithing money goes to help under privileged students who want an education? 

My father owned his own business for about 30 years.  He was quite successful.  But when the years came for me to go to college, the business went south.  Part of it was that technology was making his profession obsolete.

So, if it weren't for those tithing subsidies, I would not have been able to go to college.

[let’s roll]

24 minutes ago, Tyme said:

No, I don't. Although state funding has gone way down. With that said, tithing is very different than tax dollars.

I agree tithing is very different than tax dollars.  I’d suggest that as citizens with a representative government, those representatives should spend tax dollars in accordance with the will of the citizens they represent.

Our covenant with the Lord regarding tithes is that we give willingly with the understanding that we a returning to him a portion of what He has given us, it was never really ours, and is given to His representatives to be utilized in the way He desires and those representatives should look only to Him as to how to use the funds.

Personally, I would never deem it appropriate for me to counsel the Lord or His representatives on how to spend tithes (which is why my other post in this thread should be understood as a comment on unhelpful attitudes about getting into the Y not a serious suggestion about denying admission based on place of residence).

[Tyme]

11 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

I agree tithing is very different than tax dollars.  I’d suggest that as citizens with a representative government, those representatives should spend tax dollars in accordance with the will of the citizens they represent.

Our covenant with the Lord regarding tithes is that we give willingly with the understanding that we a returning to him a portion of what He has given us, it was never really ours, and is given to His representatives to be utilized in the way He desires and those representatives should look only to Him as to how to use the funds.

Personally, I would never deem it appropriate for me to counsel the Lord or His representatives on how to spend tithes (which is why my other post in this thread should be understood as a comment on unhelpful attitudes about getting into the Y not a serious suggestion about denying admission based on place of residence).

There you go with the assumptions again. A lot of people around here seem pretty good at assuming.

[Just_A_Guy]

1 hour ago, Tyme said:

They should raise the price of tuition. That way they won't have to send as much tithing to the school. I don't understand why people who didn't go to BYU have to bankroll it.

Think of it as a voluntary system of spiritual universal healthcare.  

[let’s roll]

6 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

What you're describing is the impressions of teenagers of what their parents told them.  While I know a lot of parents will think very highly of their children getting to go to College and that BYU is a very desirable school, I doubt any parent actually said:

"I want you to know that your primary purpose in life is to get accepted to BYU.  And if you don't I'll disown you."

What you have is a lot of characterizations and teenage impressions, and dare I say, exaggerations.

As I said, far too many to mention.  The examples I gave were of youth to illustrate the unhealthy impact the attitude has on youth.  Even if exaggerated, the perception itself would be unhealthy and counterproductive. 

But I can tell you in some cases it’s not exaggerated at all.  I’ve had parents tell me the same thing, both in my role as a Priesthood leader and Seminary teacher.  When that’s happened my two cents is usually that youth benefit from diversity of thought and culture and that their wonderful children are strong and valiant and will thrive in that environment, which will likely only deepen their righteous convictions.

Thats my sincere belief and while I think most agree in theory, the desire of Y attendance on their child’s LDS resume almost always wins the day.

I understand your skepticism because the attitude is so blatantly unhealthy.  But it’s there.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

As I said, far too many to mention.  The examples I gave were of youth to illustrate the unhealthy impact the attitude has on youth.  Even if exaggerated, the perception itself would be unhealthy and counterproductive. 

But I can tell you in some cases it’s not exaggerated at all.  I’ve had parents tell me the same thing, both in my role as a Priesthood leader and Seminary teacher.  When that’s happened my two cents is usually that youth benefit from diversity of thought and culture and that their wonderful children are strong and valiant and will thrive in that environment, which will likely only deepen their righteous convictions.

Thats my sincere belief and while I think most agree in theory, the desire of Y attendance on their child’s LDS resume almost always wins the day.

I understand your skepticism because the attitude is so blatantly unhealthy.  But it’s there.

You've had parents tell you "the same thing".  I doubt that.  If you give me the actual words they were using, it will be much more clear.  But when speaking in general descriptions, you can make anything sound like anything.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Guest

[let’s roll]

1 hour ago, Tyme said:

They should raise the price of tuition. That way they won't have to send as much tithing to the school. I don't understand why people who didn't go to BYU have to bankroll it.

I’m sorry, and asking sincerely, what assumptions do you think I made about the above in my response, which was only my personal opinion agreeing with your comment that tithes and taxes are completely different and a statement about what I would consider inappropriate action for me.

[Tyme]

I know some people who would rather their kids go to BYU than Harvard. I'll never understand that.

[Tyme]

11 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

I’m sorry, and asking sincerely, what assumptions do you think I made about the above in my response, which was only my personal opinion agreeing with your comment that tithes and taxes are completely different and a statement about what I would consider inappropriate action for me.

It looks like I'm guilty of making assumptions too. I thought you were implying that I'm not worthy and don't listen to Prophets.