estradling75 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, AbramM said: You believe that my girlfriend is with God now because she attends LDS church you believe she would be leaving God if she went to a protestant church. So clearly you believe that I don't know God. You can't have it both ways. Listen and listen well because this is the last time. You found God in the Protestant Faith. We accept that. You also have made in clear that you believe that if you leave the Protestant Faith you will be leaving God. We accept that too. (Assuming your girlfriend is a faithful LDS) You're Girlfriend found God in the LDS Faith. (Do you accept that?) Your Girlfriend likely feels that if she leaves the LDS Faith she will be leaving God. (Do accept that?) Now clearly you do not think that asking her to abandon her Church is abandoning God, instead you think and hope that her conversion will help strengthen her faith and trust in God. (We understand this as your motivation... but we disagree) We do not think that asking you to abandon your Church is abandoning God, instead we think and hope that your conversion will help strengthen your faith and trust in God. (Do you understand this as our motivation even though you disagree?). Bottom line is the two of you are in mirror image of each other but you do not see it because you are blinded by your wants and desires rather then understanding her and the LDS Faith. Edited March 25, 2019 by estradling75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, AbramM said: I am the only one willing to find a new church. It is a big sacrifice for me to leave the Southern Baptist church I attend, I love it there but I am willing to find a new church we can attend together. Correct me if I am wrong, but if you change churches, you would be changing from one Protestant church to another, your core beliefs would not need to change. Did you know that Latter-day Saints are NOT Protestant? We believe that God, Christ and the Holy Ghost are three separate personages. We believe that God speaks to a prophet today and that we have access to His power through the Priesthood, and in The Book of Mormon, etc. For her it is not just going to another church because she prefers their services, she would have to change her core beliefs. I respect your choice for you both to attend the same church, but I don't think you realize that for her changing churches means something very different than what it would be for you. Edited March 25, 2019 by LiterateParakeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Jane_Doe said: My purpose in asking was to 1) better understand what you believe, and 2) help you maybe understand standard LDS Christian beliefs. I know your situation is tough and intimating, so I was trying to be helpful, as somebody who is bi-lingual, so to speak. If you wanted to chat via Private Message (PM) or email or not at all, those are all ok too. I'd also be totally willing to talk to your girl. You were helpful, but I feel bad being on a LDS forum and talking about what I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, AbramM said: You were helpful, but I feel bad being on a LDS forum and talking about what I believe. It's totally ok. We have lots of people on here that are not LDS Christian (such as moderator PrisonChaplin) or not even a theist. The only rule is that no one attack/disrespect the LDS faith (as we do try to not disrespect others). But if you're still not comfortable with it, I'd be happy to talk to you on another venue / email / PM / whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said: We're not saying that you don't know God. To help clarify what we ARE saying, I'm going to explain a hypothetical situation to explain things: 1) God convicts you, Abram, from the bottom of your soul that a believers baptism is His ways and the Truth. Infant baptism is not His way. 2) You were then to attend a church that preached & practiced infant baptism 3) Said church (including your spouse) heavily encouraged you to likewise practice infant baptism. 4) Due to this pressure, you then go have your infant daughter baptized, despite being convicted by God that this is not His way. Do you see the problem here? How by performing such an act you would be turning your back on God and going agains the Truths He convicted you of? My Southern Baptist pastor would lecture me for hours if he knew I thought this but whilst I wouldn't choose to have my kids baptised it does no harm. So if I had a spouse who felt strongly about it for whatever reason. I'd go for it 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, AbramM said: My Southern Baptist pastor would lecture me for hours if he knew I thought this but whilst I wouldn't choose to have my kids baptised it does no harm. So if I had a spouse who felt strongly about it for whatever reason. I'd go for it 😕 You'd be ok going against the conviction God placed in your heart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Mores said: Would you really be changing your faith? Yes I would be. The Holy Trinity is the foundation of my faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Jane_Doe said: You'd be ok going against the conviction God placed in your heart? God has never put it in my heart that it is harmful to the child or the parent to have the infant baptized. And I've heard baptists rant for days about why it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, AbramM said: God has never put it in my heart that it is harmful to the child or the parent to have the infant baptized. And I've heard baptists rant for days about why it is. What *IS* a conviction God placed in your heart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said: What *IS* a conviction God placed in your heart? God has given me lots of convictions. That I am a sinner, only God's grace can save me through Christ's atonement that Christ is God. God has given me personal convictions too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, AbramM said: God has given me lots of convictions. That I am a sinner, only God's grace can save me through Christ's atonement that Christ is God. God has given me personal convictions too You're in luck. All faithful Latter-day Saints have the exact same convictions. By the way, if you hear an LDS say "personal revelation", that's exactly the same as what you call "personal convictions". We got what protestants may call unusual lingo... Jane_Doe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, AbramM said: God has given me lots of convictions. That I am a sinner, only God's grace can save me through Christ's atonement that Christ is God. God has given me personal convictions too LDS Christians totally agree with you there. I'm just going to go for a specific conviction here: has God convicted you that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 different persons in 1 God through consubstantiation as stated in the Athanasian Creed? Edited March 25, 2019 by Jane_Doe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, anatess2 said: We got what protestants may call unusual lingo... That is COMPLETELY true. Saying it takes learning to be "bi-lingual" isn't just metaphorical at points. anatess2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said: Did you know that Latter-day Saints are NOT Protestant? I just found that out 2 days ago. If I had known then I wouldn't have continued to pursue a relationship with her after attending church with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, AbramM said: Yes I would be. The Holy Trinity is the foundation of my faith. Okay, just to clarify this... The Holy Trinity - meaning God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost is the foundation of your faith, right? Or is the foundation of your faith SPECIFICALLY that all 3 persons is One Physical Essence (ousia)? Jane_Doe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, AbramM said: I just found that out 2 days ago. If I had known then I wouldn't have continued to pursue a relationship with her after attending church with her. So the title of "protestant" is more important than the substance of a church. Interesting. It seems to me that if you attended church there, and it wasn't obvious to you that it wasn't protestant, then maybe that label is less important than you might have supposed. Edited March 25, 2019 by unixknight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 22 minutes ago, unixknight said: So the title of "protestant" is more important than the substance of a church. Interesting. Not the title at all. I believe the church is the body of Christ and he certainly wasn't a protestant 😂 22 minutes ago, unixknight said: It seems to me that if you attended church there, and it wasn't obvious to you that it wasn't protestant, then maybe that label is less important than you might have supposed. I didn't want to say because I didn't want to offend but I found it a bit peculiar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 34 minutes ago, anatess2 said: By the way, if you hear an LDS say "personal revelation", that's exactly the same as what you call "personal convictions". We got what protestants may call unusual lingo... Baptists say "personal revelation" too. The Baptist women I know tend to say "the lord has put it on my heart". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 36 minutes ago, anatess2 said: Okay, just to clarify this... The Holy Trinity - meaning God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost is the foundation of your faith, right? Or is the foundation of your faith SPECIFICALLY that all 3 persons is One Physical Essence (ousia)? 38 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: I'm just going to go for a specific conviction here: has God convicted you that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 different persons in 1 God through consubstantiation as stated in the Athanasian Creed? Yes Ma'am I believe with all my heart that god is 3 persons but 1 being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, AbramM said: Not the title at all. I believe the church is the body of Christ and he certainly wasn't a protestant 😂 I didn't want to say because I didn't want to offend but I found it a bit peculiar True, He wasn't. I respect your desire to not offend, but at the same time I feel like you guys would really benefit a lot from some more openness in your communication. And to be fair, I acknowledge that if you got this far with dating that LDS girl without knowing who Joseph Smith was, that says more about her inability to communicate openly than anything else. I don't know if she feels unsafe telling you these things, out of a fear that you'll dismiss her and her beliefs, or whether she just isn't good at communication. I dunno, and I won't speculate. I leave all that to you. What I can say is that the deeper you go, doctrinally, the less similar LDS and Protestantism (or Orthodoxy) are. I think you're probably getting an inkling of that through the conversation here. The core of LDS belief, in terms of our understanding of eternal principles, is utterly incompatible with the general Protestant view. There's a reason these things aren't regarded as equivalent, and why it's a much, much bigger deal for your girlfriend to switch churches than for you to. As others have suggested, I'd also recommend that you gain a deeper knowledge of that before you make any decisions, and that the best way to do it is to ask the missionaries over. They're well equipped to answer these kinds of questions and present this information to someone who hasn't heard it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, AbramM said: Yes Ma'am I believe with all my heart that god is 3 persons but 1 being. But has God placed the conviction that they are 3 person in 1 God through consubstantiation as stated in the Athanasian Creed? Or in other words: is the foundation of your faith SPECIFICALLY that all 3 persons is One Physical Essence (ousia)? Do you have conviction specifically of the underlined parts? This is actually an extremely important question. Edited March 25, 2019 by Jane_Doe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 21 hours ago, AbramM said: I am 20. It is hard to find women who follow the Lord closely though. 21 hours ago, Alia said: You're so young Abram. Lots of times to find someone who believes as you do. 21 hours ago, AbramM said: That's so cool that your brother is a minister. It's quite a small church, my husband and I are attending a parenting class there at the moment and we are both LDS so there are compromises to be made. Although, I personally wouldn't want to be married to someone of a different faith to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, AbramM said: The Baptist women I know tend to say "the lord has put it on my heart". I do miss hanging out with Baptist women they say the funniest things. My mom quotes scripture all the time even for ridiculous things Jane_Doe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: But has God placed the conviction that they are 3 person in 1 God through consubstantiation as stated in the Athanasian Creed? Or in other words: is the foundation of your faith SPECIFICALLY that all 3 persons is One Physical Essence (ousia)? Do you have conviction specifically of the underlined parts? I'm not much of a scholar and I don't really know what the Athanasian Creed. I never heard the term ousia before. I believe that God is 3 persons but one being. Of those 3 persons I believe only Jesus has a physical being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, AbramM said: I'm not much of a scholar and I don't really know what the Athanasian Creed. I never heard the term ousia before. I believe that God is 3 persons but one being. Of those 3 persons I believe only Jesus has a physical being. Define "one being". Again, this is actually very important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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