LAWYER HELP REQUESTED

[Vort]

Jay Insleee, the scumbag leftist governor of the State of Dementia Washington, has ordered all public and private schools closed in three counties.

What authority does a governor have to order the closing of private schools?

[JohnsonJones]

As they are part of the Washington network of state and community governments (or so I imagine) and the teachers and many of the administrators as well as the schools are registered and certified by the State, I imagine he has a lot of authority, or at least pull and influence to be able to do so.

[Vort]

2 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

As they are part of the Washington network of state and community governments (or so I imagine) and the teachers and many of the administrators as well as the schools are registered and certified by the State, I imagine he has a lot of authority, or at least pull and influence to be able to do so.

Thanks for the response, but I have no idea what you're trying to say. Private schools are not part of any state or community governments. The fact that teachers are certified by the state is of no more moment than the fact that plumbers are licensed (certified) by the state; Jay Inslee can't tell all Washington state pipe installation companies to quit working just because the plumbers are state-certified. And I don't care how much "pull" or "influence" Inslee has, I just want to know how it is that he has the power to shut down private schools on a whim.

[Just_A_Guy]

https://reason.com/2020/03/11/washington-governors-emergency-order-banning-gatherings-of-250-people/

Utah just did something similar today with gatherings of over 100 people, though I’m not sure whether it’s binding or merely advisory.  I’m sure we’ll be hearing from the Church leadership soon.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

3 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

https://reason.com/2020/03/11/washington-governors-emergency-order-banning-gatherings-of-250-people/

Utah just did something similar today with gatherings of over 100 people, though I’m not sure whether it’s binding or merely advisory.  I’m sure we’ll be hearing from the Church leadership soon.

That was so yesterday, Jag.

Today...

https://www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/inslee-orders-all-private-public-k-12-schools-in-king-pierce-snohomish-counties-to-close-through-april-24/

[Vort]

2 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

That was so yesterday, Jag.

Today...

https://www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/inslee-orders-all-private-public-k-12-schools-in-king-pierce-snohomish-counties-to-close-through-april-24/

I didn't see any legal analysis in this story, as with JAG's link. Did I miss it?

[NeuroTypical]

Our CO governor declared a state of emergency yesterday.  It's hard to find a news story that explains exactly what that means, but there are vague hints at some sort of expanded powers and legal flexibility.  But yeah, I don't know either.

[Vort]

Yes, I'm familiar with the basic idea of a state of emergency. But when you utterly prohibit all meetings of groups of people, even private groups meeting for religious or educational purposes, because people are afraid of getting a nasty cold—that's not a state of emergency. That's martial law. Is Inslee actually going to jail those attending schools or churches who defy his irrational ban?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

26 minutes ago, Vort said:

I didn't see any legal analysis in this story, as with JAG's link. Did I miss it?

I was just teasing JAG because he was talking about limiting groups over 250 which happened yesterday (?)  and the school closure you are talking about happened today.  I also providing a link in case he hadn't heard about the school closure.  

[Midwest LDS]

Yeah our governor just ordered schools closed as well here in Indiana very much like the announcements from other states. I believe it falls under the governors' emergency powers as outlined here https://www.nga.org/consulting/powers-and-authority/#emergency but I don't think that's what you are looking for. Definitely potentially concerning though it does seem easy to abuse.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Midwest LDS

[Just_A_Guy]

12 minutes ago, Vort said:

Yes, I'm familiar with the basic idea of a state of emergency. But when you utterly prohibit all meetings of groups of people, even private groups meeting for religious or educational purposes, because people are afraid of getting a nasty cold—that's not a state of emergency. That's martial law. Is Inslee actually going to jail those attending schools or churches who defy his irrational ban?

Houses were quarantined in the Spanish Flu epidemic.  I imagine that the legal authority for this kind of thing is well-established, although I agree it’s very dangerous authority that could be easily misused.  
 

11 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I was just teasing JAG because he was talking about limiting groups over 250 which happened yesterday (?)  and the school closure you are talking about happened today.  I also providing a link in case he hadn't heard about the school closure.  

Yeah, though the Utah thing just came out today.  

Our school district is still open, but tomorrow will be a minimum day to train teachers for potential online teaching.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest Scott]

I don't know the legality of it, but it's more than just Washington.  It started with Ohio.

There are other states are banning all gatherings of people over a certain amount of people too.

We sure are becoming pansies in modern days.  Only a few generations ago it would be unusual to have all of your children live to adulthood.

I'm not saying that this isn't serious, and that nothing should be done, but people are panicking more than they should.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, Scott said:

We sure are becoming pansies in modern days.  Only a few generations ago it would be unusual to have all of your children live to adulthood.

Ahh, the good old days where people died of diphtheria, yellow fever, measles...we had to fight two world wars in under 50 years...
 

[mordorbund]

4 hours ago, Vort said:

Jay Insleee

Say no more. I have no legal background but I'm ready to take your case. I have had a distinct abhorance for this villain since I watched him debate the former AG (whose name escapes me - looked it up, McKenna) before Inslee's election. He kept going on about how the AG would turn down free federal money. AG responds that the money isn't free, that it would only support Medicare for n years before the State had to support the program, and WA already had an insurance program for low- or no-income people that operated more effectively and efficiently. Inslee's rebuttal just repeats the original chant "free money".

[Colirio]

6 hours ago, Vort said:

What authority does a governor have to order the closing of private schools?

Government officials have just as much authority as the governed allow them to have. 
 

/inciting rebellion 

[Guest Scott]

I'm guessing that we're about to find out what the legality of closing private businesses, schools, etc.  Closures are happening all over the place.   Red states; blue states; red counties; blue counties; red cities; blue cities; it isn't just Washington.  

Kid Rock's bar in Nashville (warning-there is the "a" word in the title of the bar) is challenging the mayor's ordered closures of bars and calling it unconstitutional: 

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/coronavirus-kid-rock-nashville-bar-remain-open-215225753.html

I assume that there is going to be more challenges to the closures in the near future.
 

[Just_A_Guy]

9 minutes ago, Scott said:

I assume that there is going to be more challenges to the closures in the near future.

Good luck getting a hearing date to argue for an injunction.  

[NeuroTypical]

The best we can do as humans, is try to find that elusive line between individual rights and societal protection.   COVID is forcing us to think about that line in places we don't need to usually draw it.

So far, my work has been ahead of every government suggestion/mandate so far.  We started refusing access to symptomatic people, or people returning from China, weeks before the govt.  We did social distancing and density reduction a few days before press releases and news briefings put a name to those terms.   Yesterday we voluntarily closed for two weeks.

No matter what the right or wrong of it is, here's how it plays out with real humans:

- Initially, just about everybody goes along with the govt advice/mandates.  The @Vorts of the world are largely ignored.
- If we can keep our creature comforts, lights/heat/food/internet/phone/Netflix, we'll keep giving up more upon request.
- A week of bare shelves and rich white women fighting in the parking lot over toilet paper is laughed off by a society of plenty entertained by the novelty of a little hardship.
- The novelty wears off fast.  Make our internet crap out, or make gas hard to find, or empty store shelves - you've got one week, maybe two of hardship, before everyone becomes Vort, and the Vorts start putting on their V-for-Vendetta masks.

Right now, we're in the "holy crap this is going to be expensive and might usher in a short-term recession" phase.  If we can chill out and stop emptying store shelves, we can not reach that last part.  We can do 2-6 weeks of sheltering in place, as long as the Netflix stays up.

[Just_A_Guy]

6 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

The best we can do as humans, is try to find that elusive line between individual rights and societal protection.   COVID is forcing us to think about that line in places we don't need to usually draw it.

So far, my work has been ahead of every government suggestion/mandate so far.  We started refusing access to symptomatic people, or people returning from China, weeks before the govt.  We did social distancing and density reduction a few days before press releases and news briefings put a name to those terms.   Yesterday we voluntarily closed for two weeks.

No matter what the right or wrong of it is, here's how it plays out with real humans:

- Initially, just about everybody goes along with the govt advice/mandates.  The @Vorts of the world are largely ignored.
- If we can keep our creature comforts, lights/heat/food/internet/phone/Netflix, we'll keep giving up more upon request.
- A week of bare shelves and rich white women fighting in the parking lot over toilet paper is laughed off by a society of plenty entertained by the novelty of a little hardship.
- The novelty wears off fast.  Make our internet crap out, or make gas hard to find, or empty store shelves - you've got one week, maybe two of hardship, before everyone becomes Vort, and the Vorts start putting on their V-for-Vendetta masks.

Right now, we're in the "holy crap this is going to be expensive and might usher in a short-term recession" phase.  If we can chill out and stop emptying store shelves, we can not reach that last part.  We can do 2-6 weeks of sheltering in place, as long as the Netflix stays up.

I imagine, too, that home quarantine is a very different thing when you’re living in a single-family home on a fifth of an acre, than when you’re living in an urban high rise.  I’ve very much appreciated being able to send the kids to play outside for a couple hours each day.  I should think that city-dwellers don’t necessarily have that luxury.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest Scott]

The Southern Utah Health Department, along with the local Sheriff's Departments have shut down all lodging, restaurants, camping, public places, etc. in three counties so far.  There are no gatherings of people allowed with over ten people.   In addition they are enforcing a social distance of six feet for anyone not in their own house.

https://moabcity.org/DocumentCenter/View/2783/SEUHD-Restrictions-Order-03172020-FINAL

They are threatening jail time for any violations:

ATTENTION: The following order will be strictly enforced. Violation of the order is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by up to 6 months in jail, and fines of up to $1,950. Violations also could result in the revocation of overnight accommodation licensure.

https://moabcity.org/551/COVID-19-Information-and-Updates?fbclid=IwAR2DoGCOdX73K7I9SOgyL7gjph3R-2BS8zQNSGUujnYMKCi26F0SGJMNNJc

If this really is enforced then it means you could be thrown in jail for holding your kid's hand in a public place.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Scott

[Vort]

52 minutes ago, Scott said:

The Southern Utah Health Department, along with the local Sheriff's Departments have shut down all lodging, restaurants, camping, public places, etc. in three counties so far.  There are no gatherings of people allowed with over ten people.   In addition they are enforcing a social distance of six feet for anyone not in their own house.

https://moabcity.org/DocumentCenter/View/2783/SEUHD-Restrictions-Order-03172020-FINAL

They are threatening jail time for any violations:

ATTENTION: The following order will be strictly enforced. Violation of the order is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by up to 6 months in jail, and fines of up to $1,950. Violations also could result in the revocation of overnight accommodation licensure.

https://moabcity.org/551/COVID-19-Information-and-Updates?fbclid=IwAR2DoGCOdX73K7I9SOgyL7gjph3R-2BS8zQNSGUujnYMKCi26F0SGJMNNJc

If this really is enforced then it means you could be thrown in jail for holding your kid's hand in a public place.

In Soviet America, we are free to do exactly as we are told.

[Guest MormonGator]

57 minutes ago, Scott said:

ATTENTION: The following order will be strictly enforced. Violation of the order is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by up to 6 months in jail, and fines of up to $1,950. Violations also could result in the revocation of overnight accommodation licensure.

 

So they don't want you to be in groups over 10-yet they are going to arrest you and throw you in jail. 

Thanks government. 

[Vort]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

So they don't want you to be in groups over 10-yet they are going to arrest you and throw you in jail. 

Thanks government. 

I bet it wouldn't stand up in court. So all you have to do is pony up $200,000 in attorney fees to show the state what's up.

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, Vort said:

I bet it wouldn't stand up in court. So all you have to do is pony up $200,000 in attorney fees to show the state what's up.

@Vort, you are developing an anti-authority streak. Has @Midwest LDS been giving you my Libertarian books? 

(No, seriously. @Midwest LDS, what did you do with them?) 

[Vort]

3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

@Vort, you are developing an anti-authority streak. Has @Midwest LDS been giving you my Libertarian books? 

(No, seriously. @Midwest LDS, what did you do with them?) 

I'm actually all for legitimate authority exercised appropriately. And I give Church leaders extra leeway on the "exercised appropriately" part. But not elected leaders. Never.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Vort