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Grunt

Saints Volume II

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I'm reading the second volume of Saints and there a ton of things that I either didn't know about the Church, surprised to learn how modern day things originated, or wonder why something changed.   I find it refreshing how the story is written and how it includes things I wouldn't suspect.  If you haven't read it, I strongly suggest you get caught up.

That said, after seeing so many things going on at BYU these days, and never having attended there (although I'm considering applying to the law school), I wonder if people who ARE familiar with the school now feel it has gone off track from the intentions of President Young.  He seemed to make it very clear that it was to be completely faith immersed, unless I'm missing something.  It doesn't seem that the school has held true to that?  

Also, it was funny to see the Salt Lake Tribune hasn't veered off it's original purpose.

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15 hours ago, Grunt said:

I'm reading the second volume of Saints and there a ton of things that I either didn't know about the Church, surprised to learn how modern day things originated, or wonder why something changed.   I find it refreshing how the story is written and how it includes things I wouldn't suspect.  If you haven't read it, I strongly suggest you get caught up.

That said, after seeing so many things going on at BYU these days, and never having attended there (although I'm considering applying to the law school), I wonder if people who ARE familiar with the school now feel it has gone off track from the intentions of President Young.  He seemed to make it very clear that it was to be completely faith immersed, unless I'm missing something.  It doesn't seem that the school has held true to that?  

Also, it was funny to see the Salt Lake Tribune hasn't veered off it's original purpose.

I attended BYU and I am mostly glad I did.  There were some amazing professors and there were some surprising (Hmmmmm how do I say this) - very disconnected to reality professors.  I had one professor that I think his only possible redeeming factor is that he could portray an amazing Lucifer masquerading as a being of light.  I believed in the honor code but the implication of it left a lot to be desired.  I was brought up before the honor code consul on several occasions.  For example, I hung a sign by the girl's dorms that said "Cattle Crossing".  It was a joke - honor code people have no sense of humor.   I demonstrated a parlor magic trick and was accused of using Satanic magic.  What is even more funny with all this is that the campus police thought it was part of coded drug stuff.  I have no idea where some people go for logic.

I have some rental property in Provo.  My biggest mistake with this investment was trying to deal with BYU housing.  Everyone but the director was a delight to deal with - I have no idea beyond section 121 of the D&C what the problem with the director is.

Perhaps I should understand better - but it seems that wherever there is light and intelligence there needs be some small portion of a darkness and lies in this life for balance?

Also thanks for the Saints II recommendation!!

 

The Traveler

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16 hours ago, Grunt said:

I'm reading the second volume of Saints and there a ton of things that I either didn't know about the Church, surprised to learn how modern day things originated, or wonder why something changed.   I find it refreshing how the story is written and how it includes things I wouldn't suspect.  If you haven't read it, I strongly suggest you get caught up.

Thanks for the book recommendation!  Unfortunately I don't get much reading time in, but is always good to have recommendations nonetheless.

Any particular stories you would like to share?

16 hours ago, Grunt said:

That said, after seeing so many things going on at BYU these days, and never having attended there (although I'm considering applying to the law school), I wonder if people who ARE familiar with the school now feel it has gone off track from the intentions of President Young.  He seemed to make it very clear that it was to be completely faith immersed, unless I'm missing something.  It doesn't seem that the school has held true to that?  

Scripture, history, and just personal watching all show that while striving to follow God is the goal of the Church of God, there's rough spots along the way.  Individuals whom don't care to follow God at all, individuals whom think that their incorrect way is following God,  individuals whom get caught up in traditions (good and bad), events which will cause drama (good or bad), etc. 

BYU is no different in that regard.  

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On 7/27/2020 at 6:07 PM, Grunt said:

I'm reading the second volume of Saints and there a ton of things that I either didn't know about the Church, surprised to learn how modern day things originated, or wonder why something changed.   I find it refreshing how the story is written and how it includes things I wouldn't suspect.  If you haven't read it, I strongly suggest you get caught up.

That said, after seeing so many things going on at BYU these days, and never having attended there (although I'm considering applying to the law school), I wonder if people who ARE familiar with the school now feel it has gone off track from the intentions of President Young.  He seemed to make it very clear that it was to be completely faith immersed, unless I'm missing something.  It doesn't seem that the school has held true to that?  

Also, it was funny to see the Salt Lake Tribune hasn't veered off it's original purpose.

Still working my way through volume 1 and I do find it to be great reading. I look forward to getting to volume 2. I'm not surprised that you are finding all sorts of things that you didn't know though. As a life long member going on four decades of mortality and having served a mission and reading plenty of church history over the last several years, in particular, I'm still finding all kinds of new and interesting tidbits as well. 

 

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On 8/25/2020 at 10:34 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

Interesting tweets on twitter.  I cannot comment on all the departments in BYU at this time (and especially about the English departments) as I'm not as familiar with who is in them, but I've always felt the History school professors were rather faithful and loyal (From my experiences with them) and the Law School is top notch (Utah also has a good reputation, saying this before Utah fans jump up in fury).  I think BYU balances between the fine line of trying to have a top rate academic program while also having a faith promoting school.

As I said, I cannot comment on English or their department (as I'm not an English professor and never majored in English), but with some areas of education it can be a tough line to follow in some instances.  Secular history is not necessarily always faith promoting or even kind to the Church's side of the coin, however, to remain relevant in some historical circles, a certain stance on some ideas sometimes has to be taken from a secular viewpoint.  It can be difficult (and from what I've seen, and my impressions, the BYU professors who I am familiar with seem to do a tremendously good job with this).

It may be that more nefarious things are afoot among those professors (And there are many of them, in fact, probably a majority of those who work at BYU if not most) that I am not familiar with.

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2 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Interesting tweets on twitter.  I cannot comment on all the departments in BYU at this time (and especially about the English departments) as I'm not as familiar with who is in them, but I've always felt the History school professors were rather faithful and loyal (From my experiences with them) and the Law School is top notch (Utah also has a good reputation, saying this before Utah fans jump up in fury).  I think BYU balances between the fine line of trying to have a top rate academic program while also having a faith promoting school.

As I said, I cannot comment on English or their department (as I'm not an English professor and never majored in English), but with some areas of education it can be a tough line to follow in some instances.  Secular history is not necessarily always faith promoting or even kind to the Church's side of the coin, however, to remain relevant in some historical circles, a certain stance on some ideas sometimes has to be taken from a secular viewpoint.  It can be difficult (and from what I've seen, and my impressions, the BYU professors who I am familiar with seem to do a tremendously good job with this).

It may be that more nefarious things are afoot among those professors (And there are many of them, in fact, probably a majority of those who work at BYU if not most) that I am not familiar with.

Quite possibly.  I don’t think I ever really had a BYU professor who expressed overt hostility to the Church’s core principles.

I do remember hearing, during my time there, that a few humanities-based programs (including history and English) were being kept deliberately less-rigorous than they might have been elsewhere.  Apparently a lot of STEM-type majors would figure out that they were in over their heads after the first year or so; and the university wanted to keep a few “soft majors” so that the flameouts from more rigorous programs could transfer over and still get *a* degree without spending more than four years in total at the university.  I, personally, graduated with a history degree in three years (plus some AP and  post-mission language testing credits).  Right after my mission I flirted with the idea of pursuing a PhD and going into academia, but a couple of my professors candidly told me that no postgraduate program of any repute would take a BYU history B.A. seriously.  

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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Wow, that twitter thread was interesting. I graduated in 1992 as an English major and don't remember anything like this guy's experience. There was only 1 class that I can think of that came close to being critical of the church (but it wasn't really...more critical of church culture). 

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