Disney wokeness

[LDSGator]

@Phoenix_person and I friends off TH. For the life of me, I can’t imagine him hating Jewish people. Or anyone else, for that matter. 

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, Phoenix_person said:

while shots are still being fired, I'm on the side of the Palestinian children being killed by American weapons because of the actions of Iranian-backed terrorists. 

I'm glad to hear you think so.  For too long Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran and the numerous other proxies have been attacking Israel from and concealed by civilian populations, while Israel has absorbed hits and responded with restraint in ways that protected the civilians, and hence the terrorists.  I'm not sure what response the bad guys thought O7 would bring, but the end of Israel's restraint seems like something I would want/support/judge moral if it had happened to me.

At the end of the day, I'll sum it up as "@Phoenix_person's definition of Zionism is nuanced, but overall respectable."  Especially with your quote above.  

I'm vaguely aware of Israel's dirty tricks over the decades, as well as those of the US.  I'm a believer that few to no nations have clean hands in the geopolitical realm.  Any nation with clean hands swiftly becomes part of someone else's nation, with almost no exceptions.  That doesn't excuse it.  It does make it impossible to deny that humans can be, and often are, brutal and nasty to each other.  We outsource it to our leaders whenever possible, so we can live life with the image of innocence.

I'm thinking a lot about my dad's WWII stories.  He hit Europe after the Battle of the Bulge started becoming the big German retreat, and my dad chased the Germans across Belgium and into Germany, where he stayed as part of the allied occupation forces for a while.  Dude got his bronze star and a field promotion to Sergeant 80 years ago last month, right before Thanksgiving.  

He told a story of taking a town.  The Germans were so happy to see them.  The mayor was all smiles and handshakes, promising that the infantry had retreated.  Then a German sniper opened fire from inside a building.  By the time my dad got from the back end of the building to where he could be effective, someone else got the sniper.  When he got back to the main group, the mayor lie dead.  One of the Americans just put a gun to his head and executed him, for lying about military forces and putting US forces at risk.  War crime?  If it was, it was one of an endless series of snap decisions predicated on the assumption that Germans were the bad guys.  They started it, my dad was there to end it.

From what I can tell, the stuff the Allied forces did are still pretty universally acknowledged to be necessary and morally justified.   And holy crap does it resemble what Israel is doing now in many ways. 

Over 4 million innocent civilians on the Axis side dead. 

A German report of how destroyed their country was, as the war neared it's end: 

 

Orders issued to my dad in Germany by Omar Bradley, as the German resistance collapsed, dealing with surrendering forces became common place, and Hitler had only a week or three of life left: 

 

Here's hoping that the IDF can just as soundly defeat the terrorist death cult, that the Palestinians will eventually have had enough, so they rise up against the government they voted into place, and that both groups can keep as much of their humanity as possible in the process.  

I would be quite happy to see any remnants of Hamas or Hezbollah (and probably the Houthis, and probably others), hounded and killed wherever they hide, anywhere across the planet, for the next 50 years, just like we did with Nazi war crime tribunals.

Edited December 5, 2024 by NeuroTypical

[Phoenix_person]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

I'm having trouble figuring out what you really mean.  I can only conclude that some of these statements were simply mistaken wording.

If my wording seems confusing, it's because, as I said, we know she supports the IDF's campaign against Hamas (fine) and not much else. We're not entitled to anything else, but at the same time she's not entitled to the benefit of the doubt in the face of so much suffering in her homeland. I have no beef with her, but my loyalty is to the Palestinian civilians dying, and hers seems to be to the ones doing the killing. Yes, it's messy and nuanced, which is why I'm not rushing to judgement. I consider her neither a friend or foe to the Palestinian people. But these days, I prefer to give my attention and energy to people who DO recognize and speak out against what's happening in Gaza. If Gal isn't willing to take that stance, fine. Am I supposed to act like she's some sort of hero for being unclear in her views about what most of the world is calling a genocide?

Honestly, I haven't given her more than a half-second's thought in some time. I think I saw one or two tweets months ago poo-pooing some fairly ambiguous thing she said about the war. I rolled my eyes and kept scrolling, but I also took note. I don't wake up in the morning and go "BUT WHAT DOES GAL GADOT THINK???". I weighed in on her here because she was mentioned here specifically. And fwiw, I did some quick googling to make sure I hadn't missed something from her. As I said, months. And now I feel like I've spent way too much talking about an untalented and otherwise pretty uninteresting celebrity.

20 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm a believer that few to no nations have clean hands in the geopolitical realm.  Any nation with clean hands swiftly becomes part of someone else's nation, with almost no exceptions.  That doesn't excuse it.  It does make it impossible to deny that humans can be, and often are, brutal and nasty to each other.  We outsource it to our leaders whenever possible, so we can live life with the image of innocence.

Agreed. Geopolitics is messy, and was outrageously so in 1948. Israel is a colonist state who owes their independence to the world's biggest colonizers, all of whom were experiencing increasing demands for oil in the aftermath of WWII and the industrial boom it sparked. Do you think it's coincidence that a West-friendly and war-ravaged people were given a home in the Middle East in that specific point in history? Do you really think the world leaders of 1948 did it out of the kindness of their hearts? Remember, Nazi Germany wasn't the only country with an antisemitism problem back then, they were just on an extreme end of the spectrum.

[LDSGator]

19 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

Remember, Nazi Germany wasn't the only country with an antisemitism problem back then, they were just on an extreme end of the spectrum.

Exactly. There was a casual “Jew hatred” back then that was more socially acceptable. Thank God that sort of thing is no longer tolerated. 

[Phoenix_person]

34 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Thank God that sort of thing is no longer tolerated. 

Well.

I left X for a reason, and it ultimately had little to do with Elon directly. 

Edited December 5, 2024 by Phoenix_person

[LDSGator]

3 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

Well.

I left X for a reason, and it ultimately had little to do with Elon directly. 

Oh, it’s still out there but you are more likely to get called out for it. If you walk into your job and start making bigoted jokes about Jewish people, you’ll get fired in thirty minutes. That wasn’t so in the 50’s. 

[Ironhold]

10 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I wonder if anyone is going to see it besides critics.

This critic is waiting to see what else opens that weekend, and if needs be what "leftovers he will discover in the back of the fridge" that weekend. 

[Carborendum]

Caitlin Clark has bowed down to the woke mob.

Quote

I want to say I’ve earned every single thing, but as a white person, there is privilege. A lot of those players in the league that have been really good have been black players. This league has kind of been built on them. The more we can appreciate that, highlight that, talk about that, and then continue to have brands and companies invest in those players that have made this league incredible, I think it’s very important. I have to continue to try to change that. The more we can elevate black women, that’s going to be a beautiful thing

https://time.com/7200904/athlete-of-the-year-2024-caitlin-clark/

And conservatives are wanting to throw out their Kaitlyn merch.

All her hype will go quietly into the night.  Sad.

I have to wonder if she made this statement freely, of her own will?  Or if she felt bullied into it because of the ostracizing and bullying she had felt in the league. Or... is she being bribed by the sponsors who are still woke?

I don't know.

Edited December 13, 2024 by Carborendum

[NeuroTypical]

This post will be of low value for most people.   

I'm always looking for new ways to explain what's going on with you humans.  Here's an attempt to explain how cultural "vibes" are changing.  Studying and quantifying culture is rarely life-changingly important, but thinking about how it evolves can occasionally help explain what's happening.  Remember, we're talking cultural vibes.  This isn't peak science.

 

Hipster/Indie: "kill whitey", blackface jesus, messy hair, apathy, & lethargy.  Vibe seized by Dems to elect Obama.

Post-internet/Techno: Cancel culture, #metoo movement, occupy wall street.  Gen Y thinks Jerry Seinfeld is part of the problem. 

Hypebeast/Woke: Protests, rise of occupy democrats, white privilege, gender theory and the rise of the TQIA+, we all enter lockdown to watch our children fail and the cities burn and hope someone ends Jordan Peterson before it's too late.

Pilled/Scene: "Pilled" refers to the choice offered to Neo in the Matrix.  Evolved into Red Pill (up with truth, down with gender theory), Blue Pill (whatever, man, I got a lot going on), Black Pill (nihilism, incels, bored doomscrolling), Green Pill (environmentally on-board), and Pink pill (choosing the bear, only fans is respectable now).    Scene: Influencer life, touching grass, gaining your stupid serotonin boost for the week, Beluga, brainrot and the word "sus".

What good is all of this?  Maybe not much, but at least it shows the TQIA+ folks aren't revamping culture much any more.  And you'll hear less and less about white privilege.  And corporate America will be less invested in DEI.  Folks who yell 'genocide' don't really bother every one else any more.

Edited December 13, 2024 by NeuroTypical

[LDSGator]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Caitlin Clark has bowed down to the woke mob.

And conservatives are wanting to throw out their Kaitlyn merch.

All her hype will go quietly into the night.  Sad.

I have to wonder if she made this statement freely, of her own will?  Or if she felt bullied into it because of the ostracizing and bullying she had felt in the league. Or... is she being bribed by the sponsors who are still woke?

I don't know.

Her hype will not go away overnight. 
 

If conservatives only liked her because they thought she was one of them, or only because she wasn’t a leftist, that’s really shallow. I like a bunch of musicians whose politics I disagree with. It’s not hard. In fact, if I can do with my meager intellectual abilities and passionate feelings about politics, conservatives should be able to as well.   
 

I’m not sure what you wanted her to do. The WNBA in 60% African-American, and all female. She’s being pragmatic.   

Edited December 13, 2024 by LDSGator

[LDSGator]

I remember many years ago someone told me they “Didn’t like the Ramones because Johnny was a conservative.” I thought it was both shallow and sort of silly. This is the same thing.
 

I honestly don’t get it.   

[Phoenix_person]

On 12/13/2024 at 3:19 PM, LDSGator said:

If conservatives only liked her because they thought she was one of them, or only because she wasn’t a leftist, that’s really shallow. I like a bunch of musicians whose politics I disagree with. It’s not hard. In fact, if I can do with my meager intellectual abilities and passionate feelings about politics, conservatives should be able to as well.   

I think a lot of the hype around Caitlin boils down to the fact that she's a white girl from Iowa who happens to be a very good basketball player. And yes, I think I think some of the hype was race-driven by folks who can't stomach equally-talented but less humble black players like Angel Reese. I also think Caitlin has received some very unfair and undeserved animosity from some folks in the NBA and media. She seems to be handling it just fine.

I view the quoted statement as being akin to Elvis recognizing and acknowledging the fact that his music was inspired 100% by black musicians. Some people call him a culture thief, but my understanding is that he was always very upfront about the inspiration for his music and was generally good about giving credit to black artists for the work that was written by them. I imagine some people would call him "woke" today. Some people called his music "n----- music" in his prime.

[LDSGator]

51 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

I imagine some people would call him "woke" today. Some people called his music "n----- music" in his prime.

All true. 

You’ll disagree with this, but conservatives use woke the way your side uses bigot/racist. It’s now just a pejorative used to express personal dislike.

On Elvis-conservatives at the time thought his pelvic thrusts were so immoral that it couldn’t be shown on television. Liberals then and now disliked him because they think he stole rock and roll from African Americans. So he’d be called “immoral, woke, bigoted, guilty of cultural appropriation, corrupting the youth, etc.”

 

Haters gonna hate.
 

I stand by what I said originally. If the only reason you like  an actor/athlete/writer/musician is because you think they share your politics or race or religion- that’s really shallow of you. 

[Phoenix_person]

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

You’ll disagree with this, but conservatives use woke the way your side uses bigot/racist. It’s now just a pejorative used to express personal dislike.

I don't disagree, actually.

[LDSGator]

15 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

I don't disagree, actually.

Whoops, sorry bro. My bad. 

[Ironhold]

OK. 

Yesterday it was announced that a scene in an upcoming Pixar TV series was pulled because it's about one of the characters - a teenage soccer player - being transgender. Well, someone leaked what's known as an animatic, basically a proof of concept in which the storyboard artwork is stitched together. I saw the animatic. It uses surrealistic artwork, and I mean full-on Picasso-level imagery, to try and convey the character's gender dysphoria. After seeing it, I suspect that the scene only got as far *as* the animatic stage before being nixed on the basis that it could likely frighten or confuse children. 

Based on this, I went back and did some double-checking because an episode of the cartoon series "Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur" was, according to some of the artists who worked on the show, yanked at the last minute because, they claimed, Trump's win was such that Disney was no longer comfortable airing an episode about trans rights. Well...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Girl_and_Devil_Dinosaur#Release

...Wikipedia cites a writer for Polygon who claims that the episode *was pulled a year ago* due to concerns on the part of Disney executives, and that the subsequent decision to cancel the series means that the episode will likely remain unaired despite having been leaked... and people seeing that the episode was about as subtle as a cruise missile strike. 

So... it seems like Disney, or at least employees for Disney, are now trying to engage in some form of gaslighting over certain kids' cartoons with transgender themes not getting approved. 

[LDSGator]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna184664
 

old news. Storyline removed. 

[JohnsonJones]

14 hours ago, Ironhold said:

OK. 

Yesterday it was announced that a scene in an upcoming Pixar TV series was pulled because it's about one of the characters - a teenage soccer player - being transgender. Well, someone leaked what's known as an animatic, basically a proof of concept in which the storyboard artwork is stitched together. I saw the animatic. It uses surrealistic artwork, and I mean full-on Picasso-level imagery, to try and convey the character's gender dysphoria. After seeing it, I suspect that the scene only got as far *as* the animatic stage before being nixed on the basis that it could likely frighten or confuse children. 

Based on this, I went back and did some double-checking because an episode of the cartoon series "Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur" was, according to some of the artists who worked on the show, yanked at the last minute because, they claimed, Trump's win was such that Disney was no longer comfortable airing an episode about trans rights. Well...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Girl_and_Devil_Dinosaur#Release

...Wikipedia cites a writer for Polygon who claims that the episode *was pulled a year ago* due to concerns on the part of Disney executives, and that the subsequent decision to cancel the series means that the episode will likely remain unaired despite having been leaked... and people seeing that the episode was about as subtle as a cruise missile strike. 

So... it seems like Disney, or at least employees for Disney, are now trying to engage in some form of gaslighting over certain kids' cartoons with transgender themes not getting approved. 

Ironically, I think it started with Iger, who is more liberal than the prior CEO, but also more practical.

The last CEO, Chapek, was conservative, but seemed to approve almost any woke idea that Disney had for some reason.  Perhaps it was to show that he was not too conservative to lead the company or something (I have no idea), and that led to some rather bad situations (Lightyear pushback, Strange Worlds scene that got  protesting, etc) for Disney media.

Iger isn't against suggestive ideas on screen, but I think some of the more blatant ones that infuriate their core audience (conservative families) are things he generally tries to have Disney avoid. 

[LDSGator]

2 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

nfuriate their core audience (conservative families)

The core Disney audience isn’t exactly conservative. I think it’s more apolitical or maybe slightly right leaning families.