How to Know When a Family Should be Abandoned

[Carborendum]

There is a young man in our ward who is in the "at risk" category.  The thing is that he's a really good kid.  But his family is horrible.

In making that accusation, I need to state that there are only very general things of which I have personal knowledge.  But many of the things coming from various people in the ward that are trying to work with this family are very believable but they're all second hand.

• The family is very poor.  They live in a trailer in the slums.  I've been there many times.  Dog droppings all around the yard and the house.
• The mother is in a tight spot.
  • She found out that she never "officially" completed the divorce paperwork with her first husband.
  • She married and divorced a second husband.
  • She can't marry the third man that she is now with because of that issue.
  • But this may all be a lie because...
• They made a little bit of a show of being interested in the Church.  But several things happened to pour cold water on that.  It seems that they have been trying to milk the Church for charitable benefits.
• The younger sister used to be good friends with my daughter until we found out that she was a gaslighter.  My wife said that seems to be what she is.  We looked up the definition and a list of phrases that gas-lighters often use.  As I read the list, my daughter cringed with each line.  She verified that this girl had used every single one of these 15 or so phrases in her interactions with my daughter.  My daughter was severely stressed over all the things she said to her.
• The step-man has off and on employment.  
• The mom has a minimum wage job off and on.  But she still goes to the beauty shop and spends $80 each week to get her nails done.
• They take all or most of the kids' earnings (girl makes over $100/wk babysitting; boy works 25 hrs/wk at the local supermarket) to pay for expenses (including the beauty shop).
  • Because of this, the ministering family says that they would fight tooth and nail to keep him from moving out.
• They treat the daughter like a princess.
• They treat the son like an outcast.

He has spent a lot of time with the youth.  They all love him and have reached out to him.  He kinda/sorta has a girlfirend in the ward.  And he spent enough time at that family's house that he began realizing that the way his own family functions is not normal.  He wants to have a family that actually works like that one.

My sons are close friends with him.  And he's really trying.  But he feels trapped.  His "parents" won't let him get a driver's license.  He is considering joining the military at 17 (right after graduation).  He feels like it's his only way out.

So far, I have not heard of actual physical or sexual abuse.  And I don't know what the legal standard is for emotional or psychological abuse in this state.  My libertarian sensibilities says we can't interfere in the internal workings of the family.  At least, the bar is VERY HIGH before we should call Protective Services on them.

Of the several families that are very close to this young man, ours is probably the most appropriate to take him in.  No girls in our home are near his age.  We have two sons about his age that are his close friends.  And we have additional beds that aren't being used.

But legally we can't do anything without parental permission which we are unlikely to get unless we accuse them of abuse.  I, myself, can't do that because I have not witnessed it.

The only other alternative is for him to declare himself an emancipated minor which takes 4 to 6 months.  So, what will happen in his home during that time?  Maybe we do need to get CPS involved.

I'm really worried.  I feel like this is my chance to redeem myself from the experience with Kim.  But if we fail or if something bad happens in the meantime, I will feel like an even greater failure.

He's a REALLY good kid.  He needs help.  We don't want to lose him.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Carborendum

[NeuroTypical]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

But legally we can't do anything without parental permission

That's basically the major point of the entire story.  I'd steer clear of accusations of abuse and getting CPS and the foster system involved if possible.  Horrible, horrible, tragic stories come out of foster care. 

You can do much to make this kid welcome in your home.  You might be able to become the go-to parent figure.  A place where he does all his homework, gets rides, folks who pick him up for church, etc.  You can help keep him sane until he graduates and springs out of that place.  Honestly, if you can stand buddying up to the parents, your odds of having a positive impact in this kid's life might increase.  But he's not your kid, you shouldn't try to get the parents to change, you shouldn't find ways to gently urge them to parent differently.  This is a "let your light so shine" thing, not a "time to haul people into a disciplinary council" thing. 

 

My circle of friends in HS and college included two girls.  Fun times in the one girl's parents' house for a full decade - really nice parents.  A couple of those years, one of the girls was living in the other girls' parents house.  It wasn't anything anyone thought about.  I didn't even think to ask why until years later.  But yeah, that stuff only happens when both sets of parents are down with it, and that's not something you can force.

Edited March 25, 2023 by NeuroTypical

[Vort]

Threadjack.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Vort

[Carborendum]

10 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

That's basically the major point of the entire story.  I'd steer clear of accusations of abuse and getting CPS and the foster system involved if possible.  Horrible, horrible, tragic stories come out of foster care. 

I'm aware.  That's why I only want to go that route as an absolute last resort.

10 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

You can do much to make this kid welcome in your home.  You might be able to become the go-to parent figure.  A place where he does all his homework, gets rides, etc.  You can help keep him sane until he graduates and springs out of that place.  Honestly, if you can stand buddying up to the parents, your odds of having a positive impact in this kid's life might increase.  But he's not your kid, you shouldn't try to get the parents to change, you shouldn't find ways to gently urge them to parent differently.  This is a "let your light so shine" thing, not a "time to haul people into a disciplinary council" thing. 

It's a strange thing.  As most of you all know, I'm not the friendliest or most social person in the world.  But ever since I became aware of that family, I felt some extra motivation to be a part of that family.  This is very uncharacteristic of me.  I just HAD to be their friend.  I never really do that.  But I did it with them.

As a result, it seems that my family has become the favored family in his parents' eyes.  They've kind of turned sour on several other families in their children's circles.  But for some reason, they have a high opinion of me.  I doubt it will be enough for them to treat him better.  But I'm wondering.

10 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

My circle of friends in HS and college included two girls.  Fun times in the one girl's parents' house for a full decade - really nice parents.  A couple of those years, one of the girls was living in the other girls' parents house.  It wasn't anything anyone thought about.  I didn't even think to ask why until years later.  But yeah, that stuff only happens when both sets of parents are down with it, and that's not something you can force.

So, is there more to the story that you're at liberty to discuss about those two girls?

[NeuroTypical]

6 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

So, is there more to the story that you're at liberty to discuss about those two girls?

Oh, I'm absolutely sure there's more to the story.  But I never learned it.  The point is, that girl is off in Virginia somewhere now, married with kids, posting temple pictures on Facebook occasionally.  The other girls' family helped her out at one chapter of her life, and you might be in the position to do something similar.  It's not your job to fix all the wrongs.  Sometimes it's enough just to be a friend and safe place.

Now that I think back, that girl's little brother also spent a lot of time at this other house.  He sort of hung out with us and was mostly invisible, except when his older sister was covering him with sisterly affection.  Nobody to play with but us older kids.  Huh.  yeah, absolutely more to the story there.  But in the end, it doesn't really matter.

Edited March 25, 2023 by NeuroTypical

[Carborendum]

48 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Oh, I'm absolutely sure there's more to the story...But in the end, it doesn't really matter.

The main reason I asked was that I'd like to see how they went about it.  But it does seem like a slightly different situation.  Maybe the same method won't work here.

We've been trying to setup a meeting with him to see if he even wants to go down certain avenues.  But he hasn't been coming to church or seminary, and only occasional church activities.

My son found out that somehow he heard that he had offended someone.  So he went so far as to re-arrange his work schedule to avoid having to come.

Now that my son spoke with him, he realized that he only heard that through his family.  So, he's trying to change his schedule again to be able to come back.

I just want to tell him that he has options. The decision has to be his.

It sounds like the best route would be the voluntary thing.  But if that fails, we will probably at least offer him the emancipation route.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Carborendum

[schematic_dreamer]

I like what NeuroTypical said.  You can be his go-to parent and make a world of difference.

IMO it's 100% moral to remove him from the home.  Emotional abuse is worse than physical abuse, it is just less visible.  Taking his money and spending it on getting her nails done is garbage behavior.

I just don't think you will be able to do it (unless you do it on the sly, where he is just over a lot and she gets to keep harvesting his money- which is probably all she cares about, besides looking like she is a victim or in the right), and it is likely not safe for your family to do so due to backlash from the parents (welcome to the game called 'fun with narcissists').

Thanks for caring.

[zil2]

Welcome to Third Hour, @schematic_dreamer!

[Carborendum]

So, things have taken an interesting turn.

The boy in this story is doing better.  The parents aren't exactly abusive.  But they are very strict and they simply don't know how to adult, much less parent.

He has already signed up for the military.  He has gone to boot camp. And he's just waiting for HS graduation before he heads out.

He has chosen to believe that the families he sees at church are the family he wants to have when he grows up.  I see a bright future for that boy.

But now...  I have to ask, Is normal life really that foreign to people?

His little sister keeps making the wrong choices.  While the brother has chosen the life that will provide the family that he has seen in others' examples, the sister has chosen to continue in her mother's footsteps of basically being a slut.  There is no other word for it.

She has had the chance to see all the same families as her brother.  She has seen just as many good examples of what she could have.  But she keeps making bad choices.

She considers herself a victim.  She thinks all her friends have abandoned her.  The truth is that she abandoned them in favor of her lifestyle.  She had a long period where it appeared that she would come around.  But in the end, she simply made a choice just like her brother.  But she chose differently.  She didn't want this life.  She wanted the life of a slut.  Again, there is no other word for it.

As a result she actually did temporarily kill herself through starvation (anorexia).  She was resuscitated and nursed back to health.  But she is continuing down the same path and worse.  There is simply nothing we can do.  

She stopped talking to all her family and friends.  Recently, she opened up to my daughter whom she still considers a friend.  This is the same girl who was gaslighting my daughter for months without my realizing it.

The girl has decided to move in with her pregnant friend who is carrying her uncle's child.  We have no way to contact her or her friend or figure out if the uncle is in jail for this or not.

Two people in the same situation. Both are shown a better life and how to get there.  One chose the better path.  The other chose a path of death.  We simply can't do anything to help her.

This is just insane.  I've been suicidal with depression before.  But this is something else entirely.  I am at a loss how people keep choosing such paths that are so long and protracted through a valley of pain and sorrow.  There are hands being offered all around, but they simply don't want to accept them.

I don't really know why I'm telling you all this.  There's nothing I can do.  But I can't just keep it bottled up inside me.   I guess I just consider this therapy.  Thanks for listening.

[NeuroTypical]

12 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Two people in the same situation. Both are shown a better life and how to get there.  One chose the better path.  The other chose a path of death.  We simply can't do anything to help her.

Glad to hear about the boy, sad to hear about the girl.  She may leave this world early.  She may not, but spend her mortal probation in the agony that can come from making bad choices.  She may end up suffering more than one might think she deserves.  For example, such folks are prime targets for getting kidnapped and sex trafficked.  Girls with no healthy support system and maybe self-esteem or mental issues, have big red targets on their backs.  

Your job is the same for both of them.  Show 'em love in whatever appropriate ways you can.   If it all goes south for the girl and she finally decides enough is enough, you might be her escape plan.  What's she gonna do, go back to her parents?  But make sure you don't get taken advantage of or hustled.  There's a difference between saving someone and enabling them, and good people often have a hard time telling the difference.  Remember the scripture: You gotta be harmless as a dove, but you also gotta be wise as a serpent.

Edited January 11 by NeuroTypical